One more moving to Brussels :)

[ShutterNutter]

Hi everyone! Found this site a few days ago and I see that some of you live in Belgium :-)

My husband has been transferred to Brussels for 3 years, which is great and we are looking to move early next year. We have 2 little girls 5 & 6 .
We have been in Brussels for 8 days now school & house hunting. I tell you it has not been easy. We just can't decide were to live. After looking at quite a few houses we have come down to two.

The first house we are deciding on is in Ixelles near all the shops, it has no garden (not even a little patch) and no parking which is a bit of a pain driving round and round trying to find one after a long day of work. On the plus side the house is near Tenbosch Park and another big play ground that I can easily walk the girls to, also all the restaurants and shops.

House number 2 is in Watermal-Boitsfort, it is bigger and newly renovated, plenty of parking but the nearest shop (which is 2 supermarkets) is 1.5km away. Not crazy far, but far enough not to make the area very exciting or have anything fun to walk to.
One of the things that appeal to me coming to Europe is the fact that you don't have to get into your car just to get milk. I really enjoy walking and was looking forward to be able to walk to the corner store to get milk or whatever. Also living in a quaint, pretty european style street is very appealing.
DH understandably wants it to be an easy commute to work (Auderghem) and back and to the girl's school (we are deciding between BEPS and ISB) and the Watermal house would certainly provide that. It also has a garden for the girls. The downside is that this house is just surrounded by big offices and buildings and some embassies.

So, after all that rambling ... having lived in Brussels for a while, would you go for the more lively location and walkable locations, but smaller house and no garden, or the bigger house with a garden but not very exciting surroundings but closer to work and schools?

I probably won't have car for the first 6 moths or so but will probably get one later. DH will have car and will be traveling quite a bit with his job. I'll be a stay-at-home mom.

Thanks for any input!!

Signed, indecisive Crazy Rambler ;-)

Natation can you tell me if you know other areas in Brussels where we won't have problem finding a school place for our son? I might as well be looking at those areas

To be honest in that area, I don't know it super super well, but I do know that Maria Assumpta, the nearest Catholic school is super super oversubscribed and I'd be very surprised if you got a place there. The communal schools in Bruxelles 1020 (Laeken) did their enrolments for the first classes of maternelle and primaire in January, no idea how you apply for other school years but I'd imagine the enrolment timetable is pretty similar.

No I can't recommend individual schools in that area, but I cannot emphasize enough when you are late enrolling, that is far easier as a general rule to find accommodation that a school place, it's wiser to concentrate on a school place in an area you are interested in and then find accommodation afterwards than the other way around. There are over 300 maternelles in French in Brussels, I'm guessing about 100 Dutch language kleuterscholen. It is hard to reccommend individual ones, other than ones I know well where we live.

You will have problems finding school places in all areas of Brussels, as enrolments started last September and nearly all schools have done their enrolments, March is about the latest month schools do their enrolments. Then you are most likely to have to wait until mid August when schools get ready to re-open for the next school year and people who have reserved several school places finally give up their school places they do not want.

Zimaroulis, how old is your son? I moved to Brussels in April (to Evere) and enrolled dd in the local maternelle with no issue whatsoever. And the school is fine....I figured I had plenty of time to move for Primaire when I knew how it all worked....but it hasn't been necessary. I have chatted to someone else who recently moved to Evere and has a local school place.

This apartment is marked on immoweb as a new advert - means on immoweb less than a week. Very popular residential area Near metro and tram, playground. If you could get a place at the maternelle "Ecole du Bémel" or "Ecole Van Meyel" or "Ecole Prince Baudouin", then well worth considering.

www.immoweb.be/en/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3587547&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1

Well I know quite a few mums currently looking around Brussels at short notice for places. Yes there are places, but it takes quite a few phone calls to find them. I know a family that has all but given up, looking for 2 school places, looks like they are going to send to an international school and try again later. It's completely pot luck I'm afraid, especially when it's maternelle, as there is no obligation to provide a place, whereas at primaire, your child must be in education. That apartment I found is also listed with NO CHARGES! It's pretty rare to not have extra charges. 750 for 80m2 is pretty good price per m2. I'd certainly live in it.

Good morning, my son will be 5 years and 2 months old in September so he will be at a maternelle?
Well everything so far seems quite difficult, I could never imagine I should have moved on a specific month to get a school place.
Anyway our first priority is to find an apartment that we like since we will be spending most time of our day there. Unfortunately I cannot first look for a school place and then find for an apt since finding an apartment afterwards can take us ages. We are looking for one month now for an apartment in Brusses, in specifc areas in Flemish BRabant in specifica areas in Wallon Brabant and we have not been able to find something, imagine if we had to search only at a few areas

Although we find apartments they don't want to rent it to my husband either because they don't like his contract and his salary is not enough, or because we don't both work and the list does not end....I am therefore scared in the thought of limiting our search

Natation has given you good advice. If you want to get your son into school for this September, get the school place and then the apartment.

I know quite a few families recently who got school places without setting foot on Belgian soil. They have reserved a few places in different areas, so that come their arrival during the Summer, they can look for accommodation around the schools.

your son will be entering 3e maternelle in September, the last of 4 maternelle years. It would be preferable therefore to look for a school with maternelle and primaire too (a fondamentale) but if there is only a place in a maternelle only school, then it will have to be that.

I do sympathise, it took us 3 months to finally find a new house last Summer, we rejected one house but were rejected for several others because the landlords did not want a large family.

I wouldn't recommend Brabant Wallon if working in Brussels, it is too far. I think you are really looking in places with a smaller rental market. Try concentrating on communes with a larger amount of rental accommodation, such as 1160, 1170, 1040, 1030, 1140, 1200, 1150, 1950, 1970, 1000 (parts of).

This place looks still empty, rent price is cheap, charges a bit high unless it includes water and heating.
www.immoweb.be/en/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3517231&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1

I spent my day calling all fondamentales and maternelles I found on the school map natation sent me. I found a place at Ecole Fondamentale annexee Rive-Gauche on Rue Marie Christine 83. I booked an appointment for my husband on Friday. However the school is not that close to the apartment but it was the only one that had a place.
I also put my son on the waiting list of one maternelle. The maternelle is Ecole maternelle des Pagodes which is at a walking distance from the apartment.
If we get the apartment we have to decide whether we should send him at the nearby maternelle or at the fondamentale.
I hope our troubles will stop here otherwise what natation advised in cases of late registrations is the best thing to do. I fear the idea of repeating this procedure again.

Well done, you found a place. Rive-Gauche is quite a poor area, but it's a place. You can apply for a place at Maria Assumpta, Pagodes primaire (préparatoire), Christ Roi primaire next school year for 1e primaire - all 3 of these schools are designated "rich" schools and are the 3 nearest schools at primaire level to that apartment.

Definitely follow up a place on the waiting list at ecole maternelle des Pagodes, as a place there will give priority to Pagodes primaire which is next door and I'd imagine a great percentage of the 3e maternelle there move on to 1e primaire next door, with some also going on to Maria Assumpta and Christ-Roi.

Rive-Gauche is not that far from the apartment, it's only about 10 minutes away by tram.

I was wondering about something. If finally we find an apartment to a flemish area and my son goes to a dutch speaking school where he will start French at the third class of primarie will he become perfect bilingual? What do you think from your experience?
My only preference in a French speaking school, and therefore live in Brussels, is the fact that French is a language spoken in many countries whereas Dutch is not. Please I mean no offense to Dutch speakers

No your son is very very unlikely to become bilingual from 4 or 5 hours a week of French at a Dutch medium school, it takes an awful more exposure to a language than that. If the school has a majority or large minority of French speakers, then he will pick up some French from the playground, but then taht might be to the detriment of his Dutch!

Our children took a year to become bilingual at a similar age in French and English. IF you look at the number of hours a day in French it was 6 to 7 hours. So at a Dutch school, from 3rd Primary you are doing 1 hour a day maximum of French and it's not going to be French immersion, it's French taught AS a 2nd language, not IN the 2nd language, that is 1/6 or 1/7 of the amount of time spent in Dutch.

To become bilingual in French too if educated in Dutch, you'd really need to add a substantial proportion of after-school activities in French. The same is true if you choose a French school and want to add Dutch.

There are French schools which do Dutch immersion (no Dutch schools which do French immersion). But your son could not do this option 1)because he does not speak French and 2) because these schools are so oversubscribed, there are waiting lists at all these schools. French parents are desperate for their children to be bilingual French - Dutch, so they gravitate towards these schools.

Natation how did you help your kids with their English which is their mother language?
I mean they learned them only because you speak them at home or you supported them with exta activities in English?
Apart from the problem of bilingualism my son will face, I plan to send him to the Greek school which I think is twice per week so he keeps up with this mother language.

I do nothing at all, the children just pick up books and read them in English! It's their mother tongue. The basics of reading transferred from one language to another. The children don't need any practice of spoken English, they used to do one activity per week in English in order for them to feel not too alienated in a new language, but don't any more.

And I would like to point out that natation's children picked up French amazingly quickly to the point where they seem to prefer to speak to one another in French having only been here for four years (I think). My three were born here and even by the time the ds's were 16 and 14, they still preferred to speak to one another in English. I don't know any other anglophone children who have come from England and pretty much transferred their mother tongue to French so quickly. So you will most probably find that truly bilingual in one year is exceptional.

My experience is the same as natation. Dd learnt to read in French and transferred the technique. I have done nothing special.. However in your case the alphabet etc is different - so if you have the option of greek school or after school activities....well grab them....

There are a handful of French schools in Belgium which have Greek language and culture lessons within the school buildings, sponsored by the Greek government. Unfortunately they list of schools does not appear on the internet. You could ask at this link which schools do this. I know Ecole Singelijn in Woluwe St Lambert is one of them, but you do also have extra top-up fees for this school of more than 1000 euro per year plus all their other charges are on the high side such as school lunches, garderie, after-school acitivities. These lessons will be in addition to the ones I expect you'll find associated with the Greek Orthodox archdiocese of Belgium.... Cathedral I think in Ixelles.
www.enseignement.be/index.php?page=24440&navi=1940

Oh and re the reading, I second (or third!) what natation said. For my first, I did start him off on some reading books but we gave up on them (as they were a bit boring to be honest), he went on to Goosebumps books and devoured them. There were of course words he didn't know but he could guess them from the context mainly. I didn't bother with the books for the other two. Ds2 took to reading much later (Harry Potters 1-3 in French and 4 onwards in English) but is fine now (at uni in England) and dd already has good English spelling - I think we have Facebook, texting etc to thank for that as it means she writes far more English than the boys did at her age!

Hi all,
So glad to have found a current thread regarding Belgium. My husband is due to start a job in Wavre in May and we shall follow on in time for the new school year in August/September. I have an 11 year old, a 9 year old, a 6 year old and a 3 year old. I have read quite a lot of your past comments and I think that I would like to look at local schools in the area, or maybe ones with immersion English (are these Le Verseau and ARMC?). We don't want a Catholic school and don't want to spend too much in fees. Can anyone suggest good schools around or in Wavre? Offer any advice on places available at any of these i.e. waiting list possibilities? And also suggest any places to live around any of these that would enable us to walk to school?
Many many thanks

Gemmax, welcome to Belgian mumsnet (well our little bit of mumsnet).

First of all, Le Verseau is NOT an immersion school, it is a French Community funded school which has a small amount of independence from the French Commmunity Curriculum and it is able to offer out of a 28-35 hour week, 4 hours of English, either native level or second language level. All the other hours are in French. It's roughly 50/50 French/English native speakers. Fees in for maternelle+primaire are ?4200 per year, plus the normal fees for books, outings. This ?4200 covers the shortfall in funding as it has semi-independence from the French Community and receives less funding. It would depend on the year of birth of your 11 year old, if born in 2000, then he/she could go into 1st secondary in September (exemption from the end of primary exam if coming directly from abroad) - the school is not oversubscribed for secondary. As for the 9, 6 and 3 year old, well good luck because for their age groups there are waiting lists which could be 3 or 4 years, it's pot luck, you are very very very unlikely to get places for all 3 for September.

ARMC is a regluar French Community school, no extra top-up fees. I don't know the precise details of its immersion programme, some schools do 50% time in English, some more, some less, some schools only do the immersion programme for a certain school years, you'd have to look at the precise details of their programme. It is NOT however designed for English speakers and I'd be concerned for the 9 year old especially if the immersion programme is in the upper years, as your 9 year old would eventually have to pass an end of primary exam to get into secondary, spending some hours a day in English would hamper this.

Is there a reason for avoiding Catholic? They are not exclusively for Catholics and Catholic religion is also taught in non Catholic schools. About 40% of maternelles+primaires are Catholic, about 70% of secondaires. Very few people reject Catholic schools on gorunds of objection to the religion. Most people choose schools on reputation.

Just looked up ARMC has immersion from 3eM to 6eP, so in September 2012, that is children born in 2007-2001, 3eM is 75% English, 1eP to 6eP is 50% English.

I think you need to consider 3 things. 1) I'd expect this programme to be exceptionally popular and you might not get places, or you might get places simply to aid the teacher and other children by your children being examples of the target language 2) the immersion programme is designed for French speakers aiming to learn English, not for native English speakers, so native English speakers may not gain so much from lessons geared at second language acquisition, 3) if the aim of a local education is to learn French, the exposure your children get to French when 50% or less of lesson time is in French is likely to mean quite a slower rate of acquisition of French than you'd get in a monolingual French school.

There is another school starting English immersion in the area in September 2012, it' called Athénée Royal Rixensart. No details on the website so no idea which school years are covered.

If you have the luxury of choosing between ARMC and Le Verseau, to me Le Verseau would be my choice as the majority of its lesson time is in French, the English lessons are taught to native level for native speakers, unlike ARMC and other immersion schools.

There are quite a few mumsnetters living in the area, although the expat population is much smaller than in Brussels. You could look at the commune of Wavre itself which is 1300 post code, or the communes to the west of Rixensart (including Genval) with post codes 1330 and 1332, or the commune of La Hulpe with post code 1310 or Lasne with post code 1380.

Here is a map of maternelles and primaires in the Wavre-Rixensart-La Hulpe-Lasne area. I'm about to add Ottignies/LLN onto the map.

For secondary schools, well it's a bit more complicated, haven't yet done a secondary map for that area. At secondary level, schools can be of 3 different types - general, professional and technical - and even the general type varies in its academic level.

Gemmax, what years of birth of your children, as school years are divided by years of birth? In September 2012, MAcc-3M is 2010-2007, P1-P6 is 2006-2001, S1-S6 is 2000-1995.

batchgeo.com/map/cede6049273e541514fd4c1c5dc4af9b

Hi all!
I just discovered this thread and the information available is really hugely useful, thank you all for sharing!
We are currently in a process of moving to Sint Stevens Woluwe from downtown Brussels (probably over the summer). We have a 6-year old son (he shall turn 6 this May) and a baby girl of 13 months. Our son is currenlty attending the European School in Uccle, but we are rather unhappy with his language section and consider it beneficial to move him to a public Belgian school. For now the two 'shortlisted' options for us are GBS Kraainem and GBS Sint Stevens Woluwe - we had appointments with both over the last few days.
I wonder what has been your experice with GBS Kraainem or GBS Sint Stevens Woluwe? Are they supportive? Are they open to non-Dutch speaking foreigners? Our son speaks fluently Hungarian, Bulgarian and fairly good English, but no Dutch. Is the teaching process well-structured? Are the classes of reasonable size? Anything - absolutely any aspect - you may have to share would be greatly appreciated.
We already met the headmistresses of the two schools, both seemed very nice and spent time explaining us everything in English. Perhaps I like the GBS Kraainem slightly better than the one in Sint Stevens Woluwe (Leuvensesteenweg 194), but the school trip would be somewhat more complicated logisticaly. In both schools they said that if our son started almost immediatelly and he got some coaching over the summer, he may have fair chances to 'pass' the Dutch comprehension exam that he needs to enter primary school - a major worry for me. I am a bit scared that this may put a lot of pressure on him - we've been through many changes in the last 2 months moving from Italy to Brussels and moving him from his beloved English pre-school in Italy to EEB-1 in Uccle - but both Flemish headmistresses agreed that given his linguistic background and what I described them he is now doing, keeping him for another year in pre-school may not be productive...Kraainem seemed to me a bit more 'relaxed' in language terms, perhaps due to the fact that they are a commune facilite.
So, any info you might have about these two schools would be much appreciated!