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Living overseas

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One more moving to Brussels :)

462 replies

ShutterNutter · 13/12/2010 21:51

Hi everyone! Found this site a few days ago and I see that some of you live in Belgium :-)

My husband has been transferred to Brussels for 3 years, which is great and we are looking to move early next year. We have 2 little girls 5 & 6 .
We have been in Brussels for 8 days now school & house hunting. I tell you it has not been easy. We just can't decide were to live. After looking at quite a few houses we have come down to two.

The first house we are deciding on is in Ixelles near all the shops, it has no garden (not even a little patch) and no parking which is a bit of a pain driving round and round trying to find one after a long day of work. On the plus side the house is near Tenbosch Park and another big play ground that I can easily walk the girls to, also all the restaurants and shops.

House number 2 is in Watermal-Boitsfort, it is bigger and newly renovated, plenty of parking but the nearest shop (which is 2 supermarkets) is 1.5km away. Not crazy far, but far enough not to make the area very exciting or have anything fun to walk to.
One of the things that appeal to me coming to Europe is the fact that you don't have to get into your car just to get milk. I really enjoy walking and was looking forward to be able to walk to the corner store to get milk or whatever. Also living in a quaint, pretty european style street is very appealing.
DH understandably wants it to be an easy commute to work (Auderghem) and back and to the girl's school (we are deciding between BEPS and ISB) and the Watermal house would certainly provide that. It also has a garden for the girls. The downside is that this house is just surrounded by big offices and buildings and some embassies.

So, after all that rambling ... having lived in Brussels for a while, would you go for the more lively location and walkable locations, but smaller house and no garden, or the bigger house with a garden but not very exciting surroundings but closer to work and schools?

I probably won't have car for the first 6 moths or so but will probably get one later. DH will have car and will be traveling quite a bit with his job. I'll be a stay-at-home mom.

Thanks for any input!!

Signed, indecisive Crazy Rambler ;-)

OP posts:
mayy · 08/04/2012 19:48

excellent idea thanks i ll call them next week to have the dates ! yes thanks for this idea hope i will ,to be disappointed
some say it is good and some say the staff is not kind esp with parents! !Realy good idea the fancy fair thanks again

Longtime · 09/04/2012 21:23

I know a teacher from Paradis (all three of mine went there - it's not an easy school - lots of homework and exams twice a year from the age of 6) who sent her daughters to Bemel and then Chant d'Oiseau after that as she knew that Paradis wasn't right for her children!!

I also have a friend whose daughter went to Paradis but whose son they moved to Chant d'Oiseau (lots of children who find Paradis too difficult go to Chant d'Oiseau). They are far happier with Chant d'Oiseau than Paradis. You might well ask why I choose Paradis in that case. I choose it in the first place because I didn't have a car and it's very near a metro stop, and then it's a case of better the devil you know. That and for my dd they had priority for a secondary school also near a metro and with an ok reputation.

L'ARA (Athénée d'Auderghem) has a mixed reputation. I hear some good and some bad things about it.

mayy · 09/04/2012 21:40

@Longtime thanks a lot for the details! i am convinced now that i will not put my son in (le paradis) i had no information about Bemel but through your words i understand that the teacher of your kids know the schools of the area well.so the Bemel is good and not far from tHE CHANT this is good too to prepare the kids for secondary schools (may be i'ill think about jaquemain too( good reputation before but now no idea)
thanks a lot for the feed backs
i have worries because my son has some allergy
and teachers should be careful esp with food that i's why i chose the Bemel (small & clean building) and just 4 classes
Hope everything will be good
thanks again
i wish success for our kids

mayy · 09/04/2012 21:58

our kids (me you and all parents)

natation · 10/04/2012 09:03

It's very early to be thinking of secondaires, they all offer 90% same curriculum for the first 2 years, then they become general, technical and professional, they are all a little different and you really cannot know at 2 years old which one might suit at 12 :-) So I really would wait for several more years, in which time schools could change significantly.

For maternelle, for me proximity and overall happiness are the most fundamental reasons for choosing.

Do try and get the school to co-operate when it comes to dealing with the practicalities of a child with allergies. I know a child in another local school who had a peanut allergy severe enough to have an emergency kit. His school went a bit crazy - they put up "wanted" posters around the whole school to remind staff, imagine what it was like suddenly for the child to see photos of themself and for the mum, instead of having a reminder in the classroom and staff room with specific instructions, an info session for all staff, they simply expected the staff to look at the poster! This same school then excluded the child from all things nuts insensitively eg King cake made of almonds, refused to make one also with peaches or apples, excluded the child from class birthday cakes with no reference to contents of cake, instead of sending guidance to every parent to exclude nuts from the shared birthday cakes. At the school where we work, we had a child with a similar level of peanut allergy, we never excluded him from anything, just made simple adjustments, every new member of staff was briefed, discreet reminders (without wanted posters) on walls of classrooms.

mayy · 10/04/2012 11:15

yes nation i am looking for happiness and the allergy of my son is the one u talked about but not very severe (hope that u are not talking of the bemel school )of course i do not like to see the picture of my son everywhere .They can look after and inform everyone in a different way.Thanks

mayy · 10/04/2012 11:19

and of course no idea of the satf of the school and which school will be good or no !i think that a small school should pay attention (the teacher there said me that thet had before a boy with allergy and they are careful! hope so

natation · 10/04/2012 11:24

no it wasn't Bémel which put the "wanted" posters up, the school meant well but was completely the wrong approach.

mayy · 10/04/2012 11:39

yes you 're right! of course i ll be crazy with "wanted" posters up i chose the Bemel because it is small and i clean no more i did not have any feedbacks

ZIMAROULIS · 11/04/2012 14:06

Good afternoon,
I am proud to announce that after two months of search we found an apartment. We did not manage to find anything though in Brussels and we decided to live at Halle which is close to my family and has easy access to Brussels by train.
Now I started calling schools but this week they are closed.
Natation this link you had sent me in the past includes all schools of Halle?
www.ond.vlaanderen.be/onderwijsaanbod/lijst.asp?hs=bao&fusie=F&nis=23027&app=100

I hope we can find a place for our son for September
Do you have any info for good/bad schools or their scoring? I know it is very far away from where you live but I was wondering if you have heard anything from colleagues or other mothers you might know

natation · 11/04/2012 15:08

There aren't any league tables for any Belgian schools, so there are no scores for academics. I don't know anyone out there, it's really not somewhere international / expat families choose to live, unless there is a family connection.

Don't forget the map I made which shows all the local Dutch language schools in Vlaams Brabant (Halle is in Vlaams Brabant) and Brussels. Halle is squeezed between majority French speaking Anderlecht and Uccle (in Brussels region), half French speaking officially Flemish speaking communes of Sint Genius-Rode, Linkebeek and Drogenbos to the east, and French speaking Brabant Wallon Tubize to the south. You'll therefore find an interesting mix of French speakers in Halle and a fair amount of militants in the Flemish population. As a foreigner, it is probably going to be easier for you there than if you were a French speaker!
batchgeo.com/map/0ab9b04d71432cbcbb02ab479275d4cf

natation · 11/04/2012 15:10

PS go to Provinciedomein Huizingen - it is a lovely park with an open air swimming pool and plenty of things for children. You get a discount on entry if you show your proof of residence in Vlaams Brabant.

Gemmax · 08/05/2012 10:02

Hi, I haven't been here for a while. I have had my head down. Natation I have to say a huge thank you. We now have 2 places at Le Verseau (maternelle and 2 eme). They have also suggested that there may be a place in 5eme!!! for Freja. However just as you said 6 eme has been turned down flat by the Head.
Would your next school of choice be AMRC? Or would you suggest we try somewhere else?
Really really appreciate your time!
Gemma x

Longtime · 08/05/2012 10:59

mayy, ZIMAROULIS and Gemmax (and anyone else I missed!), I'm currently updating our Benelux mumsnetters spreadsheet if you're interested in being on it. We use it to organise get-togethers. Otherwise, there is also our Facebook page. It's a secret group so no-one else can even see it, let alone post on it. You need to be invited by a friend who is already on the page. It's a great way of sharing information. Let me know if you're interested.

Gemmax · 08/05/2012 11:30

Longtime,
I would absolutely love to be involved. I wonder did you have anything like this support when you got started? I am so impressed by your warmth and kindness. Can't wait to meet you all. I have been laughing about trying to put names to faces...'Natation' and 'Longtime'!
I am a dinosaur so am not on Facebook, but let me know what else I can do and I'll get to it!
Gemma x

natation · 08/05/2012 17:20

Hi Gemmax,
if you want your children to learn French quickly, I would suggest putting them in a monolingual French school and not one which does English immersion - it's not designed for anglophones, it's for francophones immersed 50% (in the case of ARMC) into English, furthermore you really need the amount of French to be at max, but when only 50% of teaching time is French, you are getting 50% less time in French at AMRC than other French schools without immersion. The English is pitched for francophones, not at anglophones. It's different at le Verseau because it's 50% anglophone there and their English lessons (about 4hours a week) are pitched at native level, the 50% francophones are taught English as a 2nd language.

Take a look at the French schools map. I'd contact the nearest schools to where you're living, keep phoning, keep asking to be put on waiting lists, please consider ALL schools if you really want school places, most children at Catholic schools are not practising Catholics and there isn't much Catholocism left, the Catholic schools at primaire level can make up to 50% of schools, so if you don't consider them, you narrow your search.

natation · 08/05/2012 17:52

I have just remembered I read in the last few days (can't remember where though) that there has been a significant drop in the number of children enrolled in communal maternelle/primaire schools in Rixensart - thought to be partially due to the number of francophone children in that area enrolling in Dutch schools in nearby Overijse and Hoeilaart. So perhaps if you haven't found somewhere to live yet, you should start your school search there.

natation · 08/05/2012 17:58

Here is an article about the "nose dive" as it is called in the number of students, so it could work to you advantage looking for a place in Rixensart.
www.lesoir.be/regions/brabant_wallon/2011-11-16/rixensart-perd-ses-eleves-877145.php
www.lavenir.net/article/detail.aspx?articleid=DMF20111028_00067289

Longtime · 08/05/2012 18:42

Gemmax, I wasn't in the same position as you as my dcs were all born here so I didn't need to find a school before arriving. However, it would have been good, in hindsight, to have had someone to ask re choice of school. I'm pm you so I can add you to our list :-)

Gemmax · 08/05/2012 22:26

Natation,
You are so helpful and also so prompt!...I completely buy into your thoughts on AMRC...I am just a bit nervous about sending Zoe out on her own (if all the others get Le Verseau) to a completely French school...to sink or swim. She out of all of them may struggle with competence and confidence.
Anyway it will all work out I am sure, but thank you for continuing to keep me updated. I have looked up the Rixensart articles...is Rixensart lovely?
My husband starts his job next week, so we will finally have someone on the ground. We are going to head over in June half term so will know more then.

Longtime I have to confess that I have no idea what pm means (dinosaur)...do you need me to send you any details?
Gemma x

Longtime · 09/05/2012 07:29

pm = personal message - you should have got a message from me in your inbox. You'll be able to get to your inbox by clicking on the inbox box at the top of the page next to the login/logout button :)

natation · 09/05/2012 10:35

how about the elder 2 children together? Or put all 4 together? You could make the decision last minute, even after starting school, you have to 15th September (don't quote me on that date but whatever date it is, it's immovable) to change schools without prejudice.

Your youngest in maternelle will ironically probably benefit the least from Le Verseau, especially at over 4k per year! There's no reading or writing taught in maternelle, you would have to think, is there a benefit to the extra 3 or 4 hours a week in English at school, when your child has an English environment at home? Just my opinion. I believe le Verseau likes to keep it roughly 50/50 anglophones/francophones and 2 times when friends have phoned it has been one of the first questions, whether francophone or anglophone. With such a large number of anglophones in one school, there is a risk your children will take much longer to speak French and might even just refuse, as little children can suss out quickly that when others speak English, why speak French!!! Experts quote 3 factors crucial in acquiring a (second) language : consistency, frequency, need. So when there is a bilingual environment where a monolingual child joins, sometimes they work out that there is no need to learn the second language because everyone else understands their first language. I work in a bilingual class and there are a couple of children who do exactly this - the entire class speak English fluently as a first or second language, 1/3 speak French first language, 2/3 speak English as a first language, a couple of the English speakers are completely resistant to speaking French in the French time and it's an uphill struggle, they just don't want to speak French because they don't need to, they know the teacher speaks English too, they know the other children speak English, so why the heck, they think, should I speak French!!!!! It's definitely a minority reaction, but it happens. Le Verseau thankfully has most of its teaching time in French, only a few hours a week in English, but with 50% of the class speaking English, there is a risk your children might react the same way and simply refuse to speak French, even when they can. You see what I mean? In a monolingual school, there is no choice, it's either French or nothing.

Anyway, it might be an idea to look for a school with places for all 4 in Rixensart, especially at Ecole du Centre and Ecole Bourgeois which are reported in the articles as the 2 communal Rixensart schools which have lost the greatest number of children. They are the 2 communal schools nearest to the centre of Rixensart. There are 3 reasons given in the articles given for the reduction : 1 the move towards francophone parents sending their children to Dutch speaking schools in the next Dutch speaking commune, the asylum seeker children in the "passerelle" French second language classes at Ecole du Centre and thirdly the disruption caused by the building work around central Rixensart by the RER (express train network) where they are adding 2 extra rail tracks, meaning parents have got fed up with road closures!

Rixensart is lovely, so is the next town (also part of Rixensart commune) called Genval and parts of Genval are a bit more pricey, especially around the lake there. If several Rixensart schools have places, then I'd take all the places, also look at the same time for housing (I'm now guessing you've not moved yet) as the rental market is much smaller in this area than in Brussels where you look for a school first and then somewhere to live later, in Rixensart I'd do both at once, possibly looking for a house first actually.

I think you could do with our Genval mumsnetter on here to help you, she knows the area far better than me. I think her ID her is SAMiAM or something like that. Look back through the thread and you'll find her-send her a pm, I'm sure she'll read it.

natation · 09/05/2012 10:43

Here's a house in Genval, a short walk from Ecole Communale de Genval. It's also only a few streets away from our Genval mumsnetter.
www.immoweb.be/en/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3674714&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1

natation · 09/05/2012 10:58

PS there are only 24 four bed houses on immoweb advertised for rent at 2k per month or less in Wavre (1300), Limal (1300), Bierges (1301) , Genval (1332), la Hulpe (1310) and Rixensart (1330) post codes which covers all French areas within about 5 miles of Le Verseau school, I'd really concentrate on housing. La Hulpe has the biggest current housing stock, 11 out of 14 of these house there. La Hulpe, Genval, Rixensart, most of Bierges and Limal are all on the west side of the E411 motorway and all merge into one another. Wavre is on the east side of the motorway, same side Le Verseau school is on. I'd never met an expat living in Wavre, from memory driving through there, the other areas are nicer.

natation · 09/05/2012 12:22

Here's a great link I found when looking at the website for Ecole Communale de Genval - it lists lots of extra-curricular activities in the Genval/Rixensart/La Hulpe area. The majority of extra-curricular activities happen outside school and at sports centres, music / arts academies etc.

www.ecolecommunalegenval.be/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92&Itemid=84

Icidently, on Ecole Communale de Genval's website, it lists how many children are currently in the classes which will become P2, P5 and P6 next year, the classes your eldest 3 would be in. There are currently P2-22 P5-19 P6-21, so if the numbers remain the same, there are places in those school years as usually primaire classes go up to 25 or 26, in our school though we had a class of 36 when the French Community decided to remove one of the teachers and 2 classes had to become 1 class :-(

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