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LGBT children

This board is primarily for parents of LGBTQ+ children to share personal experiences and advice. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful that this is a supportive space.

Original poster

For not supporting “trans” DS

100 replies

seelk07 · 14/02/2023 21:29

This is sort of an AIBU but I thought it was better to be posted here.

DS is 16.

When he started secondary school he told other students he was a girl and wanted to be known as X (which I didn't know about until a friend called him that in front of me) which led to a lot of bullying although some friends were supportive. I told him I wasn't going to call him that name but we agreed a nickname which is similar to his proper name and let him wear whatever he wanted.

This went on for about a year and half until when we moved house and he went by both his proper name again and his nickname and he came out as bisexual not long after which I was supportive of and almost everyone else also accepted him apart from the odd few at his school but they didn't seem to bother him.

2 years ago, he got into a relationship with another boy and he sexually assaulted DS which I got him counselling for but that has impacted his MH.

Last year, he told me he was trans and he only hid it before so school would be easier. I told him I didn't think he was and our relationship has suffered.

He wears male clothes, has short hair and the only make up he wears is eyeliner (I am aware biological women can also do this but if he's saying he's female wouldn't he be trying to look it?)

We had an argument earlier as he accused me of being transphobic for not calling him a she

AIBU for not supporting him?

OP posts:
TheShellBeach · 15/02/2023 17:11

Onnabugeisha · 14/02/2023 21:37

I think you’re being a bit superficial/shallow tbh, it’s like you’re imposing gender stereotypes on your DS. He shouldn’t have to conform to traditional female gender stereotypes to be a certain gender. Have you even asked which gender he identifies with? Not all trans individuals identify with the gender associated with the opposite sex. He may be nonbinary or genderfluid for example.

It doesn't matter which gender he identifies as, he's still a male.
There's no such thing as non-binary. People are either male or female.

Cuppasoupmonster · 15/02/2023 17:15

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BlueHeelers · 15/02/2023 17:15

This is a great example of the ridiculous 'advice' some posters on mumsnet can offer.

In what world are trans kids less bullied/ostracized than gay or bi kids? Absurd.

Blue heelers: the child is already 16, likely already through puberty, and has already come out as gay

It's pretty much what one of the most experienced & foremost psychiatrists in the field, Dr Az Hakeem, says about most teenagers he saw at the Tavistock who presented as trans.

So if you think a senior NHS psychiatrist, with vast experience in the field of transgender medicine (as a junior doctor in training, he assisted in gender reassignment/plastic surgeries, for example) gives 'ridiculous' advice - well, that says something about your ignorance of the field @Meaningofthesea

And Dr Hakeem was not alone in his deep concerns about the homophobia at the Tavistock. There are multiple whistleblowers, some now having risked their jobs to go on the public record eg Sonia Appleby. And as @bellac11 says, there are many more health care practitioners from all disciplines who are concerned, but need to protect their families & jobs. It's well-known that if you say anything, you're likely to lose your job (eg Amy Hamm in Canada).

The Cass Report was not about nothing.

lovemypuppa · 15/02/2023 17:20

SilverCatStripes · 14/02/2023 21:41

This madness needs to stop.

He can wear what clothes he likes , have his hair how he likes and do make up how he likes.

He is still a boy.

How much better would it be if all these LGBT societies were encouraging people to break down stereotypes and present however they like , whilst acknowledging that a persons sex is immutable.

100% agree

Oblomov23 · 15/02/2023 17:20

Have you actually discussed it in detail? What a woman is. What is attractive about being a woman. The fact you can't actually change sex. If you really really do want to be trans do you want your penis removed, to try and create a vagina. Many think it's just a fad. But sex is different to gender. It's fine to be whatever you want gay, bi, anything.

BlueHeelers · 15/02/2023 17:20

MegaPaws · 15/02/2023 17:06

Please check out Bayswatersupport.org.uk and genspect.org for a balanced view and non-judgemental support.

This. They are both excellent organisations. You might also find the podcast "Gender: A Wider Lens" by a couple of expert therapists specialising in gender questioning young people, useful.

BlueHeelers · 15/02/2023 17:23

How much better would it be if all these LGBT societies were encouraging people to break down stereotypes and present however they like , whilst acknowledging that a persons sex is immutable.

Hear hear! One only has to hear Ritchie/Tullip R on transition & regret - and pain, both chronic physical pain, and mental anguish, to see the damage that is done by rigid ideas about gender, which are then plastered onto false ideas about sex.

RudsyFarmer · 15/02/2023 17:24

I would just say yes dear to everything. At some point they will pop out the other side of this.

bellac11 · 15/02/2023 17:28

Meaningofthesea · 15/02/2023 16:21

You might be surprised how much I've read about this, and I assure you, the view you put forward is not the prevailing view of professionals working with this day in, day out. Far from it.

Show quote history

I suspect people around you, if you work with children, are too worried to tell the truth due to your attitude. I know who to speak to about my views and who to keep my mouth shut with. My colleagues feel the same.

Fifi00 · 15/02/2023 17:30

He needs therapy and lots of it. Look for an independent not related to mermaids or the Trans lobby. Tell him it's ok to dress how ever he likes he does not have to conform to gender stereotypes. Transitioning doesn't fix all problems in fact it can add to them. I would say I am happy to call you nickname but I'm not comfortable using female pronouns for now until after counselling etc.

Allthecheeseplease · 15/02/2023 17:34

Maybe you should try reading up on SRY gene and gonadal dysgenesis for a start. People who believe we know all there is to know about biology belong with the witch burners in the middle ages

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 15/02/2023 17:41

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No. He was sexually assaulted by another boy.

Original poster
seelk07 · 15/02/2023 17:41

I know he's been saying it since year 7, but I suspect at the time it was to fit in as all his friends were female, he did grow his hair out and people in public did think he was a female but he came to me just after he started his new school and wanted it cut and he didn't mention anything about being trans again until last year.

I've tried asking why he thinks he is but he says he just is etc.

OP posts:
WhichPage · 15/02/2023 17:42

This : break down stereotypes and present however they like , whilst acknowledging that a persons sex is immutable

Honestly what you wear, call yourself, who you date etc does not have any impact on what sex you are. How on earth are we having to even say this?

Reassuring and supporting unsettled young people that they are valued as who they are / are becoming as they grow up is the role of a parent.

Ponderingwindow · 15/02/2023 17:49

I don’t believe it is ossicle for anyone to change sex. However, I think you need to try to meet your child where your child is right now. As hard as it is to use a different name than the one you lovingly chose, using a preferred name is something meaningful for your child. Keeping the lines of communication open right now needs to be your top priority.

what I would do is use every resource you have to get counseling for your child. If you can find the money for private counseling, do that. You will have more control over the provider that way. If not, advocate within the system as strongly as you can.

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 15/02/2023 17:51

Maybe you should try reading up on SRY gene and gonadal dysgenesis for a start. People who believe we know all there is to know about biology belong with the witch burners in the middle ages

No-one has suggested that her son has a DSD, in fact the Tavistock stopped testing the patients that came to it for DSD's as there is no correlation between being trans and DSD's.

BlueHeelers · 15/02/2023 17:51

People who believe we know all there is to know about biology belong with the witch burners in the middle ages

There's a balanced, evidence-based view.

FontSnob · 15/02/2023 17:58

Yabu and you will struggle to find non biased opinions here.

Allthecheeseplease · 15/02/2023 18:01

BlueHeelers · 15/02/2023 17:51

People who believe we know all there is to know about biology belong with the witch burners in the middle ages

There's a balanced, evidence-based view.

That was my point so thank you for reenforcing it.

That evidence is only what we know right now. Research goes on consistently. I don't pretend to know if trans people are genuinely the wrong sex, if it's a mental disorder, if it's looking for attention in some cases, if it's some gene issue or something entirely undiscovered.

A lot of GC people and TERF's are 100% sure they know though. Lots of things were evidence proved until they were disproved. Once upon a time women were masturbated by doctors because they had "hysteria"

What I do know is OP's son is reaching out. Being rejected for who you are or who you believe yourself to be by your own parents is crushing.

midgemadgemodge · 15/02/2023 18:07

So basically we are being asked to accept that hormones in the environment ( because if the sudden surge it's not innate ) are reacting with child development and creating some unidentifiable change in their bodies so that although they seem objectively to be one sex they are not .

Ocams razor ?

midgemadgemodge · 15/02/2023 18:08

Even though many had such feelings in the past and grew out of them never less we must accept this will no longer happen

Allthecheeseplease · 15/02/2023 18:16

midgemadgemodge · 15/02/2023 18:07

So basically we are being asked to accept that hormones in the environment ( because if the sudden surge it's not innate ) are reacting with child development and creating some unidentifiable change in their bodies so that although they seem objectively to be one sex they are not .

Ocams razor ?

Who is asking you to believe this?

There has also been a huge surge since the 1970s in cases of Austism and ADHD - this is because there is more acceptance, more understanding and more diagnosis.

And No, I'm not saying neurodivergence and being transgender are the same thing or fall in the same category - I'm simply saying the rates of something happening aren't always because it didn't exist.

Occams Razor states that the most obvious solution is usually the right one - for you the most obvious answer is that they are doing it for attention? Or confused by social media? or something similar maybe?

Cocobutt · 15/02/2023 18:36

I would just be supportive.

When I was younger I went through a thinking I was a boy/tomboy stage, a goth stage, a witch stage, a chav stage, when I thought I was a lesbian stage, I even planned to run away and join the circus - all of them were phases and were me trying to find myself.

I am none of those things now but I think all teens go through different phases and the more you are unsupportive, the more they’ll take it to the next level.

You can’t control him.
You can either support him and be a voice of reason in his life (and it’ll probably end up being a phase).
Or you can be unsupportive of him and he’ll do it more to rebel and get his support from elsewhere who may not have his best interests at heart.

He does sound like he may have some gender dysphoria as it’s gone on for so long and he was bullied over it but if he thinks you are supportive then in the future you can discuss what part of being female he identifies with and why this can’t be done whilst living as a male.

curlymacv · 15/02/2023 18:47

seelk07 · 15/02/2023 17:41

I know he's been saying it since year 7, but I suspect at the time it was to fit in as all his friends were female, he did grow his hair out and people in public did think he was a female but he came to me just after he started his new school and wanted it cut and he didn't mention anything about being trans again until last year.

I've tried asking why he thinks he is but he says he just is etc.

I grew up with and remain surrounded by male friends, but I never tried to present as a boy. I don't think you should read too much into that, after all the opposite could be said - perhaps that he has so many female friends is not the cause of him feeling he wants to be a girl, but rather an effect?

It's tricky. I can't remember if you said he was in therapy before or not, but it'd be a good idea to return to it. I think an outside, objective view would be good for him, and could help him explore his feelings around gender, sexuality, and also recover from his trauma, without feeling like he's going to disappoint or hurt anyone around him.

I do think though when you as a person have a belief ("turkey tastes terrible") and someone passionately opposes you ("no turkey is delicious and you must eat it") it can just cause both parties to become very stubborn about their viewpoints, and leave little room for flexibility. Is this happening between you two?

Dymaxion · 15/02/2023 19:36

What I do know is OP's son is reaching out. Being rejected for who you are or who you believe yourself to be by your own parents is crushing.

It is who he thinks he might be right now, with all the experience of 16 years on the planet, and to be honest a lot of those early years were focussed on milk, snacks and fun. In another ten years who he thinks he is might be completely different.

Nobody should be put under pressure to decide to be 'something' at 16 and affirmation supports that pressure, to me it says 'right you have made this decision, you better bloody stick with it '. I think if I were OP I would be more inclined to go down the route of 'I love you, there is absolutely no need to decide anything right now, you carry on being you, exploring what you like and don't like, what makes you happy and growing into whichever fabulous human being you are meant to be'.