For not supporting “trans” DS

[seelk07]

This is sort of an AIBU but I thought it was better to be posted here.

DS is 16.

When he started secondary school he told other students he was a girl and wanted to be known as X (which I didn't know about until a friend called him that in front of me) which led to a lot of bullying although some friends were supportive. I told him I wasn't going to call him that name but we agreed a nickname which is similar to his proper name and let him wear whatever he wanted.

This went on for about a year and half until when we moved house and he went by both his proper name again and his nickname and he came out as bisexual not long after which I was supportive of and almost everyone else also accepted him apart from the odd few at his school but they didn't seem to bother him.

2 years ago, he got into a relationship with another boy and he sexually assaulted DS which I got him counselling for but that has impacted his MH.

Last year, he told me he was trans and he only hid it before so school would be easier. I told him I didn't think he was and our relationship has suffered.

He wears male clothes, has short hair and the only make up he wears is eyeliner (I am aware biological women can also do this but if he's saying he's female wouldn't he be trying to look it?)

We had an argument earlier as he accused me of being transphobic for not calling him a she

AIBU for not supporting him?

@Lcb123

’regardless of any decisions he * might make’.
that’s rather a sweeping statement. Any decisions? Any decisions at all? Even if some of those decisions include harming himself or other people, physically or mentally? How about taking drugs, or smoking, or nicking stuff from shops? Any decisions?

The OP’s son is a minor. She is responsible for him for another two years. It is irresponsible to resign major life choices to a child, without questioning them.

I’ve gone along with your decision to refer to the child as * him, even though he seems to wish to be known as ‘she’.

I think YABU. Have you tried to get to the bottom of things? Asked him what exactly makes him feel like a girl? Is it because of body dysmorphia or something else? As you said, he wanted to be a girl even prior to the assault, so I don't think you can blame that entirely.
Could be wrong but from this post it just seems you've become so panicked by him that you haven't really tried to understand the underlying feelings, correct me if I'm wrong though.
Regardless, he's clearly struggling, and needs support.

But it was the OP saying he couldn’t be trans unless he dressed like a girl and didn’t have short hair, not me. So the OP was perpetuating the idea that trans must = born into wrong body and her DS could only be trans if he was actively trying to look more like a female girl. I was criticising that exact thing about the the OP, not agreeing with it.

So thank you for trying, but it doesn’t explain why the poster said it was ironic that I commented to the OP about gender stereotypes.

OP, I think if your child was expressing that he wished to be known by a feminine name and pronouns when he moved to secondary school (4 years ago?), It can't be just down to the sexual assault, although of course that will have been traumatic for them.

I also think mumsnet is one of the worst places you can ask for advice about how to support gender divergent youth. The advice I've seen on here should come with a health warning. Other similar places are transgender trend etc.

Talk to your child, listen to them. You know them best. Some people are trans. If that's the case, your child will still be the same wonderful, cherished person they have always been. Maybe phone the gendered intelligence helpline and talk things through.

The chat this child needs is above his parents pay grade and above the pay grade of anyone who would later stand in court to say they are not medically trained. This child needs therapy and lots of parent digging isn't going to help. Parents can listen and protect their children from harm for as long as possible but they don't magically heal wounds.

YANBU. Most teenage trans boys will get through puberty to find they are homosexual. This could be a response to the sexual assault he’s suffered. There’s so much social contagion about nowadays re trans, and bullying of lesbian and gay teens, that it looks as though he’s resorting to a trans identity to try to get out of his homosexuality.

Recommend you seek support via Genspect or the LGB Alliance - Dr Az Hakeem is interesting on tne tendency nowadays to see “gay” as boring and “trans” as trendy. But that most young teens in your son’s situation are gay.

Please don’t let him neuter himself with artificial hormones. It will stop him becoming fully adult and being able to experience adult sexuality.

This is a great example of the ridiculous 'advice' some posters on mumsnet can offer.

In what world are trans kids less bullied/ostracized than gay or bi kids? Absurd.

Think of your own reaction to him. You have accepted that your child likes men, yet to accept they are potentially trans is difficult.

Blue heelers: the child is already 16, likely already through puberty, and has already come out as gay

Actually it is the prevailing (if secret) view of most professionals that are having to work with this day in and day out. Except that our observations must be kept quiet and secret unfortunately for fear of being shouted down.

Puberty is a long process and ahead of him he sees the reality of living with a sexuality that he likely doesnt know what to do with yet. Trans is a convenient distraction and yes, the huge validation, victim lead position of trans is attractive to some children (and adults) in a way that being gay isnt. You need to read more about this really before calling people ridiculous

You might be surprised how much I've read about this, and I assure you, the view you put forward is not the prevailing view of professionals working with this day in, day out. Far from it.

Blue heelers: the child is already 16, likely already through puberty, and has already come out as gay

No, he’s come out as bisexual, not gay.

*Last year, he told me he was trans and he only hid it before so school would be easier. I told him I didn't think he was and our relationship has suffered.

He wears male clothes, has short hair and the only make up he wears is eyeliner (I am aware biological women can also do this but if he's saying he's female wouldn't he be trying to look it?)*

Not surprised your relationship has suffered. Your child has told you something about themselves and you have completely denied it as though you know better. You don't know better than them.

The whole thing about 'male clothes, short hair, no make up' etc - are you only female because you have long hair and wear make up then? This is about more than how they look, it's about how they feel inside. I have met a lot of trans people who do not dress 'stereotypically' like their chosen gender - why should they have to? I don't have to wear dresses and make up because I'm female, so why should anyone else?

It's about how you feel inside

Wtf does that mean?
Does he feel period pains?

Being "trans" is popular these days there are several at ds high school one born a girl decided they were male used male pronouns claimed they were into girls is now dating a boy still using girls toilets changing rooms etc just changed names and none of the teachers are respecting the name change either the others are trans for clicks big on tiktok etc talking about having surgery or researching buying hormones online the reality is they are miserable kids seeking attention they are no more trans than my socks but they crave attention if ignored the fad passes and suddenly they are back to being lesbian gay or straight unless challenged then they are "gender fluid" or bi because somehow that's cooler 🙄

I think you need to step away from all the labels and ideologies and just respect your son. Some of his choices may be phased, some may be grounded in reality for him long term. If he feels she is the right pronoun, then just respect that. What harm will it do? Really. I would be clear to my child that the irreversible decisions they may decide to make they need to be sure about but beyond that, just go with it. And respect and support him. Even if it feels weird.

What is gender fluid?

Everyone (well most people) hate their body at 16. It is just a horrible transition which causes hormones to go wild. been Trans could be seen as an avoidant behaviour, or maybe he is. Nothing you have said actually indicates he is- men have been wearing eye liner for years. Think Noel fielding, Robert smith (the cure) etc..in fact most 80’s pop stars.

I think he just needs to take a step back and stop feeling he has to identify as anything..it is not compulsory thing to do. quietly restrict internet access as well…

Such a needlessly cruel, dismissive post.

Ops child first mentioned this three or four years ago. In what way is this a fad that will pass?

Anyway, good luck OP. You came here for advice, not an argument, so I won't comment anymore.

@Theunamedcat
if ignored the fad passes and suddenly they are back to being lesbian gay or straight unless challenged then they are "gender fluid" or bi because somehow that's cooler 🙄

You think being bi is a “fad”? 🤨

What harm?

It propagates a lie
It makes children believe sex is. Feeling not a physical fact
Which can lead to attempts to make themselves fit - often using harmful method it doesn't help them tackle the underlying mental health/ growing pains problems

What harm will it do?

As per the Cass report: “Social transition – this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something that happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.”

He's gay and afraid of coming out after his experience.

Right now you have a child who is in need of some love and respect. I think you've already done a fantastic job by picking a name your kid is comfortable with and by ensuring that counselling happened after the SA (which must have been a horrific experience). I was a TERROR at that age and would never have confided in my parents about anything personal. That your kid feels comfortable enough to do that with you is incredible, and I hope you know how much you're risking that by refusing to acknowledge the notion that you might just have a Trans child. A year down the line you might be laughing about it together but for now your child needs your support and it's not a huge thing to use a different pronoun for a while is it?! Maybe a bit of gender dysphoria counselling wouldn't go astray either but do not go to the LGB alliance.

Please check out Bayswatersupport.org.uk and genspect.org for a balanced view and non-judgemental support.

No, he is bisexual

I think this is the danger of allowing kids to decide for themselves before 18 or so.

OP's son has clearly gone through phases... are they fads? Are they social pressures? Is his gender genuinely fluid? Is his sexuality genuinely fluid? Is it all for attention?
Is it psychosis?

I think the OP has been remarkably tolerant so far and needs to be commended. It can't be easy dealing with such a 'flexible' child, and be expected to approve and go along with every 'whim'.

This must require a hell of a lot of patience, and it's so easy for the non-affected people in here to judge when they're not going through the same...