Trans Desistance

[Confusedmum71]

In light of the recent research that says ROGD is not backed up by scientific evidence, I am wondering if that fits with parental experiences?
Are there any parents willing to share updates on their trans children? Especially teenage girls.
I was content with a watchful waiting approach, safe in the knowledge that a large proportion of teens desist in the absence of interventions, but my anxieties are resurfacing in light of this new research.
thank you

I think that's the thing, they ARE going to have to work stuff out for themselves, just as we did. I'm not really sure how this will all look when we look back on it in the future, all trends shift of course, but while there are some more concerning elements to this movement, mostly it seems to be a fashion and mostly they seem like quite nice friendship groups.

That would be fine if the stakes weren’t so high - religion doesn’t result in irreversible surgery 😪

I know, and that is terrifying, I just hope that with the closure of GIDS we are finally seeing an understanding of what's actually going on 🤞

Yes fingers crossed!

my 16 year old has been obtaining testosterone gel via a slightly older friend who gets it from that godawful online service, GenderGP, who are happy to supply to anyone who pays.

my daughter’s friend orders her repeat before it’s required and builds up a spare stock to give away or trade/sell.

No one at GenderGP seems to care and we have resorted to binning the stuff (it’s not illegal to possess, unfortunately, despite being a controlled substance).

unfortunately the NHS route isn’t the only avenue - two of my daughter’s friends have funded private top surgery with the ‘Child Trust Fund’ bank accounts they were given under Blair’s New Labour. Talk about the road to hell being paved with good intentions. Thankfully we’ve got two more years before she can withdraw the funds from hers, but she will be able to book for surgery as soon as she turns 18 and there will be nothing we can do to stop it (despite her having ASD and Epilepsy).

Oh it is horrific isn't it, what a world, I am probably burying my head in the sand a little while we are in a period of relative calm...I can't bear to think about it...I can only try to look at any small happinesses..

Child Trust Funds for unnecessary life altering surgery, dear god...

Sorry! I didn’t mean to make you feel worse! Probably best to be aware of what some of our kids are up to behind our backs tho!

I think for lots of teens it is a lot like being goth or emo - an outside expression of not feeling comfortable with the wider society that seems to close in around puberty. Hopefully most of them will pass through it unscathed in the long term, and others will be satisfied with their medical/surgical transition.

It’s the ones who move forward with medical/surgical and don’t find satisfaction that I worry about… and I’m increasingly convinced that medical ‘experts’ can’t tell who is going to benefit from transition and who isn’t (or don’t care to know the difference, in the case of so called ‘informed consent’ practitioners).

I’d be just as troubled if my child wanted to spend her child trust fund on silicone implants at 18 as I am about her wanting a cosmetic double mastectomy 😓

I agree totally, and I do think the medical system is very behind with what's actually happening, and also good GP's have their hands totally tied with lack of options.
And I do need to look the horror in the face sometimes!

It is frightening when they have access to money. My dad was giving all the grandkids some money to save but we had to find an alternative for DD as any cash is hers at 18. She's so savvy she knew all about the trust fund and got it paid into her her account without us knowing.

Luckily we hadn't really added to it - some friends have funds worth £20-30k as they've been contributing regularly. Giving that sum to an 18 y o is terrifying without the gender angle!

She's spent quite a bit of it already but on a PS4 and on going out with friends. A year or 2 ago it would have been a very different story as she was DESPERATE for hormones.

@TheClogLady so sorry your DD has been sourcing testosterone. It's the feeling of total powerlessness as a parent that's so tough. You are right there is no way to tell which ones will stick with it and be happy. That was my argument with the Tavi - they could not convince me that they know the difference between kids who will desist / detransition and kids who won't.

@InfiniteMonkies the medical system is behind but also there are plenty of gender warriors totally convinced they are saving kids lives when actually they are doing damage. The psychology of it where healthcare professionals are concerned is fascinating. The "do no harm" goes out the window so does the need for evidence. No idea why everyone loses their minds where this issue is concerned. Cutting healthy breasts off a teenage girl would have been unthinkable a few years ago and now it's happening all over.

You’re right @GatherlyGal it is the powerlessness that’s particularly difficult. I can cope with the substance abuse (not really so different to her big brother’s love of weed smoking, now in the rear view mirror) but that there are professionals involved in the supply chain of the testosterone makes me furious. I don’t trust drug dealers but I should be able to trust doctors (and pharmacists and teachers and therapists and psychologists etc etc).

so many supposed grown ups have lost their minds.

The Clog Lady: re Child Trust Funds — are there other things you fund for your daughter? Or is she financially independent? If you still fund things, then could you say you are no longer going to fund X, Y, Z — so if she still wants or needs those things she will have to use her own funds?

Hi everyone, after a relatively calm summer and me naively hoping that things might not progress, my trans teen (almost 17) sent me this link:
www.gendergp.com/gendergps-approach-to-assessments-yes-you-are-trans-enough/

I guess this is the Gender GP talked about upthread? Who are these people and how easily do they give out hormones? Its all so bloody scary. Like others, I am petrified about losing even more control next year when they turn 18. At the moment I am desperately trying to source a Psychologist or Pscyhiatrist in Ireland that will properly question and not just affirm.

It really is an awful situation to be in, with little help or places to turn.

Hello! I missed this, sorry for late response.

my DD is 16 so not able to draw on her government trust fund for 2 more years. However, she knows it exists and how much is in it.

The plan is to tell her we expect her to fund some of her uni costs from it - dare not say this yet in case her obstinate teenage ways make her decide to skip uni and get a job at 18 instead! Obvs we want her to have a job but we also don’t want her to have lots of cash that we have no control over (been there, done that with a teen who stacked shelves for weed money! Thankfully he’s past that phase now).

it’s such a thin line to walk - we don’t want to hamper her development in growing up to be a functioning adult but we do want to keep her body healthy while her brain finishes maturing enough to properly evaluate risk (perhaps another 8-9 years!)

Have you tried Stella O’Malley? She’s in Ireland but you could have video sessions if you can’t find anyone local.

I expect Stella is pretty full but IME the handful of therapists/counsellors/psychologists/psychiatrists who are public about following an explorative model rather than an affirmation model have behind the scenes networks of fellow professionals who are also explorative/trans skeptical but more low key about it.

My daughter has video sessions with one of the psychologists who left GIDS and went public about her concerns, but DD is very cagey with her having read up on various mental health disorders and ‘conversion therapy’.

Please do what you can to stay away from Gender GP. The founder is current suspended by the GMC and her husband has been permanently struck off. The company is technically run via some weird shell-company type overseas arrangement. Even extremely pro trans people have criticisms about their lack of adequate follow up, especially for females taking testosterone who need a regular full blood count test due to risk of polycythemia.

www.endocrinologynetwork.com/view/transgender-men-receiving-testosterone-at-greater-risk-of-blood-clots

Unfortunately GenderGP will prescribe to your daughter without your permission as long as she can pay their fees (and have done so for much younger children).

If your family is low income or your daughter can somehow demonstrate financial estrangement from you, GenderGP have a fund that covers their own fees and the costs of prescription drugs for a year, so they will literally provide a controlled substance to teenagers for free without parental permission for 12 months (and then they expect the minor to start paying if they want to continue).

all of this is documented online, lots of it on their own website (except the critique of inadequate follow up care, obvs).

lots of UK pharmacies have started to refuse to fill GenderGP private prescriptions for minors but they do seem to have a Romanian doctor on the payroll who puts her name to the paperwork, so Irish pharmacies might just accept it due to EU stuff? Might be worth looking around for a trans Ireland message board to lurk on?

I made a long post for you but forgot to quote or tag you in it! Scroll up!

Thanks for taking the time to read and advise. I had thought of Stella but like your DD, mine will read up on whoever we get an appt with and would most likely refuse if their views don't suit. GenderGP sounds like a really awful and dangerous organisation that I will do my utmost to steer my child away from but if they are determined, they will go ahead regardless and do/say whatever they need to. I honestly cannot believe that this is my life or my child somedays. Supportive hugs to everyone struggling with this.

I’m sure Stella or Sue and Marcus Evans or James Esses will be able to direct you to someone with very little public profile, eg no more than a bland directory listing. Professionals are starting to realise that kids are coming in armed with research so are able to counteract that a bit by introducing themselves first name only or as ‘Dr Firstname’ if that’s their qualification.

Our kids are smart and wilful and in normal times, that would be something to celebrate. This is the first time a youth culture with a self-harming aspect has had a medical establishment wing.

Bring back goth!

here’s a YouTube video that was doing the rounds a little while ago (and the written transcript) - if you find a reasonable therapist I would suggest asking them to watch it, just so they can anticipate any time-wasting techniques your daughter might’ve researched! Staying one step ahead is exhausting but we’ve got to try

There’s no evidence for gay - but you accept that, no?

I'm sure you think that's a great big gotcha but have you actually thought about what you're saying?
If your child thinks they may be gay and then has a sexual experience with someone of the same sex and decides they're straight after all, what harm has been done?
Now think about the teens that think they are trans and want puberty blockers, hormones, and surgery and then a few years later realise they were wrong, what harm has been done?

It is a gotcha in terms of exposing the “no evidence for trans” argument as hypocritical.

I didn’t mention other stuff so whatevs to the rest of your reply.

It would only be hypocritical if being gay involved medical and surgical intervention.

ALL medical and surgical interventions require an evidence base, not just trans related ones.

There’s no evidence for gay - but you accept that, no?

Except there is. But other than that I'm sure your point is valid.

100% agree with you.
Our DD is now 18 and (through an awful mistake by her doctor) I found out she’d called the gender clinic at a large hospital to talk about top surgery (see my other post)
She hasn’t said a word to us about anything ‘trans’ but presents 100% as male- clothes, aftershave, hair, growing out her leg/underarm hair, tattoos.
She is still using her own name and pronouns (as far as I can tell through school and college applications) but I’m terrified she’ll suddenly announce her plans and go the medical route. The only saving grace is that we live in the US so she is on our insurance and the copays we/she would be expected to pay would be out of her means. However that would mean us going against her and not supporting her rather than just watchful waiting as we’ve been doing so far:(

Trans people are not a new invention

Maybe not @PetSoundss but unless you've been living under a rock you may have heard about the 4000+% increase in teenage girls identifying as trans.