10 year old Dd says she's a lesbian.

[Freeasabird76]

My 10 year old Dd came to me this evening with her friend on a WhatsApp call saying her friend had something to tell me,as she passed me the phone she cuddled up to my side and looked scared,her also 10 year old friend said quite matter of factly,Dd is afraid to say it but wants you to know that shes a lesbian.
At this time my Dd broke down in tears,I told her friend thank you for telling me but I had to hang up now to comfort Dd.
I obviously comforted her and told her like I have before that she should never be afraid to tell me ANYTHING and like I've said in the past I love you no matter who you like,be it girls,boys or girls and boys or neither.
I asked her how long she'd wanted to tell me this and she said a long time.Now I honestly do not care one bit if she likes girls,all I care about is her happiness.
I have questions though,there's been a lot of talk in Dds class this year about girls being lesbian boys being gay etc,obviously different generations so I dont have any experience of this,when I was a child this didnt come up until we were at least say 15.How sure can you be at 10 about your sexuality? I dont recollect being so self aware at that age.

Same for me, only a decade earlier. I had no idea what it was called but I knew how I felt.

Absolute nonsense to cry homophobia, when people are giving perfectly normal, common sense opinions.

Social media influence is rife with this kind of nonsense. The sooner parents act responsibly and veto sites like Tik Tok, the better.

I also agree with the poster who correlated the rise in mental health problems with the rise of social media.

Children should be allowed to be children, and not exposed to all the current gender debates.

Some girls may be lesbian, they may be bi, or heterosexual, but at 10 they are still children. They can decide what their sexual preferences are later on. At 10, they would be better concentrating on their schoolwork and their hobbies.

Ah, pretends not to he homophobia then calls sexuality a preference, oops, slipped up a bit there.

Sexuality is a preference - someone can prefer girls, or prefer boys. I don't see your issue with the word 'preference.'

Not all gay people think the same way about sexuality, you know. Or experience it in the same way themselves. I know plenty of gay people who “knew” their sexuality early in life; and just as many who didn’t at all, or don’t think of it that way.

Policing other people’s experiences about sexuality isn’t a good thing whether by straight or gay/bi people.

If my 10 year old had a crush on a girl or boy I would say that's nice dear. They are pre-pubescent for gods sake, what can anyone experience more than being fond of someone at that age?

Excellent posts, clanger.

If my 10 year old had a crush on a girl or boy I would say that's nice dear. They are pre-pubescent for gods sake, what can anyone experience more than being fond of someone at that age?

Mine wasn't prepubescent at 10.

When they're 11 they often have boyfriends / girlfriends in year 7. Why is it so shocking that a 10 year old might know they're like girls ?

Ahhh, sorry to hear she was upset telling you. I'd tell her it's all cool. My dd11 has told me she's a lesbian but also that she doesn't believe in coming out. She has a lesbian flag (very tasteful & goes with the decor in her room) and rainbow dungarees. I'm bi & we did have a bit of a chat about early crushes and peer pressure around sexuality etc which was nice bonding time. I'd be very surprised if she turns out later to be straight but fair play if she does.
I'd guess that your daughter has a crush on someone and is feeling some intense feelings. Maybe she will feel uncomfortable in admitting them either to you or to others. It can all seem a bit momentous but it isn't really. All will be well.

I have many gay friends, they all knew they were gay from around that age 🤷🏻‍♀️ pretty normal I think.

Sexuality is not a 'decision'. It's not like some women think 'hmm, I would love to be discriminated against ... I know! I'll be a lesbian'.

Being gay (or straight) is also not all about adult sexuality. A 10 year old girl who has totally innocent feelings for another child is not thinking about sex. It takes a particularly odd kind of mine to make that leap (though, it's understandable, because homophobia is a conditioned response).

My DP is a lesbian, and has never really not known she was a lesbian. Her mum remembers her role-playing as a very small child and imagining she'd save the princess and get to live happily ever after with her; she assumed she would grow up and marry a lady because it seemed so obvious that was how the world must work. There is nothing really sexual about that at all. Role playing about princesses or rescues or even about having a wedding is absolutely classic small-child behaviour (for children much, much younger than 10).

Assuming a child associates any of this with what adults see as sexual behaviour is ... weird.

Sexuality is not a 'decision'. It's not like some women think 'hmm, I would love to be discriminated against ... I know! I'll be a lesbian'.

Or conversely, fuck men are a bunch of arseholes, I think I'll convert. There were times I would have considered it if I wasn't dyed in the wool straight.

Straight people always seem to 'know' straight is hardwired, but not gay. Weird.

@theclangersarecoming - yes, I'm familiar with social media, and with students. But you've not answered my question. How can we tell there's an upsurge in actual mental illness, rather than improved rates of diagnosis/better access to treatment?

It was exactly the same when I was a teenager. There was a moral panic around new media - OMG, they have channel 4! They have the (embryonic) internet! It is shocking and wrong and I'm sure that is why they are all calling themselves homosexual, and why they have these new-fangled issues! (Anorexia was the big one when I was a teen, IIRC).

It is not that I don't believe social media is enormously different - and more frightening and dangerous - from what it was in earlier decades. But the rhetoric on this thread is exactly like what I heard in the 90s. And that makes me smell a rat. Because surely, if the real problem was 2022 social media forcing girls to slap labels on themselves and develop mental health problems, we would also see a different rhetoric ... rather than the same old tropes?

Quite. And I know so many women who (genuinely) tried to be lesbians. I've worked with women who were political lesbians in the 1970s. I'm sure of course that there are people for whom there is an element of choice, but absolutely not for everyone, no matter how hard they try.

@SarahAndQuack I don’t think the “rhetoric” is remotely the same, actually.

I think saying “either is fine, and don’t worry, because you may find your opinions change and equally you may not, some people know early and others don’t but we love you anyway whoever you love, so relax and enjoy being ten”, is not the same as saying “it’s a phase” or “you’ll change your mind” or whatever it is you’re remembering from the 1990s.

And as I say, I don’t think gay people should be policing how it’s acceptable to express valid opinions about sexuality any more than straight people. It really isn’t the case that “everyone knows age ten”.

On the current youth culture amongst students - don’t you find it markedly different now to ten years ago? What do you put it down to, then? There hasn’t been an increase in official mental health diagnoses amongst mine: these are self-diagnoses rather than any actual medical conditions. I don’t attribute it all to online culture: there’s a fair amount of it that seems to be generated in the school system, too, and in/by wider society. But it’s undoubtedly the case that the young people I teach are definitely more unhappy, by a long way, than they used to be even very recently. And some of the reasons they tell me for being unhappy are about online culture and pressures. But the unhappiness is very marked and seemed to be quite generalised among that age group even before the pandemic.

If you spend any time on sites like Tumblr or Discord there is also a generalised unhappiness at work there, particularly amongst girls, which is both performative and seems to relate to pressure to choose an identity label and group — but is also very closely related to the sexual politics of porn and objectification. It’s also very much about policing others, too, and shaming any expression that doesn’t fit in with the current ideology. (It’s a brave girl who dares to say she doesn’t agree with porn or sex work, for example, as she’ll get roundly attacked by others.)

I don’t think the current “label” culture among young people is a particularly healthy one; and it’s perfectly possible to positively affirm young people’s sexuality and emerging sexual experience and also think that.

is not the same as saying “it’s a phase” or “you’ll change your mind” or whatever it is you’re remembering from the 1990s.

Form the 90s? I'm remembering it from this thread! Disgusting, dismissive comments like 'well I loved horses, wanted to marry one' and the like.

There's no need to make a big deal of it really, as others have said, they have plenty of time to work themselves out and it's less and less of a big deal for kids these days. Our oldest hinted they had feelings for a female friend around that age and came out as gay a year or so later, it was barely coming our really, as they'd been hinting at it for a while.

Oldest (now 14) currently identifies as non-binary - they have found a lovely group of LGBTQ friends at school, very nice and no-drama, no bullying - also no indication that they get any crap from anyone at school for being gay.

I'm not honestly sure how many of these kids really are gay, but I think it's a much better thing now that kids who have a crush on same-sex mates think 'Hmm, I suppose I'm gay' and not 'Oh my God, I must be gay, my life is over if anyone finds out, no one must ever know'. TBH, I think a good few of them, maybe including mine, but I neither know nor care if this is the case, aren't really 'sexual' at all yet and may find they feel differently when they start feeling actual sexual attraction. And that's fine and I think will all add up to a more tolerant society.

Ok then, all the ones who are not pre-pubescent! Like my ds and, as far as I can see, all his friends.

Yeah there's been a disappointing number of homophobic comments on this thread that people genuinely don't seem to see the harm in. Or are disingenuously pretending not to understand. Either way it's disappointing.

I knew at 10 that I fancied girls and boys. I just knew.

The presumption that straight people always just know they're straight but non straight people should somehow meet an arbitrary age threshold before being allowed to know if they fancy girls / boys / both / neither always seemed ridiculous to me. Still does.

I haven’t seen any homophobia on the thread. Saying that sexuality is not necessarily fixed at ten is not at all the same as saying that “straight people always just know they’re straight but gay people don’t”. That’s the entire point - kids who think they’re straight at ten might not be either!

But we are taking about TEN here! My child is nearly that age; and whilst some kids that age are thinking about romantic attraction or watching Tiktok, equally many of her friends really aren’t at that stage yet. There is a huge variety of maturity at that age and some of them are more like 6 or 7 emotionally, whereas others are already starting puberty.

To say that at ten you are not necessarily aware of your future adult sexuality is not homophobic. Children and teenagers are not like robots who all follow the same pathways to adulthood.

@theclangersarecoming

A poster comparing someone saying they fancied girls when they were 10 to loving their horse and wanting to marry it (?!) when they were 10 feels pretty homophobic to me 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think saying “either is fine, and don’t worry, because you may find your opinions change and equally you may not, some people know early and others don’t but we love you anyway whoever you love, so relax and enjoy being ten”, is not the same as saying “it’s a phase” or “you’ll change your mind” or whatever it is you’re remembering from the 1990s

But of course they are pretty much the same. Being gay isn't about an 'option,' nor is it a phase. The patronising 'just enjoy being [age]' is of course exactly what people used to say - the idea being that straight children and teens get to experience all the innocent - but important - role-play and world-building experiences, but gay children do not. Gay children must simply forget about it all until they are older, and lose out.

And as I say, I don’t think gay people should be policing how it’s acceptable to express valid opinions about sexuality any more than straight people. It really isn’t the case that “everyone knows age ten”.

Of course it isn't. But you will appreciate that, in order to disprove a claim (eg. 'ten is too young') you only need a counter example. That is not the same thing at all as saying that everyone knows at 10!

On the current youth culture amongst students - don’t you find it markedly different now to ten years ago?

No.

What do you put it down to, then?

What do I put what down to?

There hasn’t been an increase in official mental health diagnoses amongst mine: these are self-diagnoses rather than any actual medical conditions.

Right ... so do you think they are actually more anxious/their mental health is worse? Or do you think they feel more able to speculate about it? Or what? I am not clear what you think is a problem here.

I don’t attribute it all to online culture: there’s a fair amount of it that seems to be generated in the school system, too, and in/by wider society. But it’s undoubtedly the case that the young people I teach are definitely more unhappy, by a long way, than they used to be even very recently. And some of the reasons they tell me for being unhappy are about online culture and pressures. But the unhappiness is very marked and seemed to be quite generalised among that age group even before the pandemic.

I realise we're trading anecdata here (and I was the one who asked for evidence, so perhaps it's not helpful for me to contribute anyway, but ...), I don't recognise this. Yes, my students often seem unhappy; so do some younger teens. But actually, my overall sense is that they are much, much better adjusted and happier than when I was a teen. There is less acceptance of suffering in silence. I am regularly blown away by how many good, healthy coping strategies they have.

If you spend any time on sites like Tumblr or Discord there is also a generalised unhappiness at work there, particularly amongst girls, which is both performative and seems to relate to pressure to choose an identity label and group — but is also very closely related to the sexual politics of porn and objectification. It’s also very much about policing others, too, and shaming any expression that doesn’t fit in with the current ideology. (It’s a brave girl who dares to say she doesn’t agree with porn or sex work, for example, as she’ll get roundly attacked by others.)

I do agree there - I think there is an orthodoxy that being 'sex positive' is a good thing. Very similar to the lad culture/cool girl culture when I was that age - and equally damaging. The difference being (and I agree with you it's a real difference) that there is so much more potential now to harm yourself by being a 'cool girl,' because of the way things go viral. Absolutely a problem. Not sure it has to do with identifying as lesbian though?

I don’t think the current “label” culture among young people is a particularly healthy one; and it’s perfectly possible to positively affirm young people’s sexuality and emerging sexual experience and also think that.

I don't believe there is a particular 'label culture' among young people - I just think we older people are realising (as our parents, grandparents, and so on realised before us) that the young people have words all of their own, and we're a bit past it. It's disorienting, but it's only new to us.

Yup 🙄

That’s the point, though, some girls at ten aren’t in the stage of romantic attachments and crushes yet. Ten year olds are not all just exactly like oneself at the same age. It doesn’t seem positive or liberating to me to be imposing an adult view of sexuality on all ten year olds regardless of the child’s development.

It doesn’t seem a million miles off the way that some people like to say their children playing with friends as toddlers are having “boyfriends” or “girlfriends”. There’s a huge social pressure to sexualise children from an early age, whether it’s heteronormative or not heteronormative.