13 yr old son scared to come out because of his dad and GP's reaction

[folly115]

I stumbled across a message on my sons phone to his friend saying that he fancies then the boys name. I was checking his phone regarding another issue at school. He is 13 and it is completely no surprise at all. In fact I would be more surprised if he was straight. My brother is gay and I have a gay cousin as well. Further into the chat I read that he needs to come out but he can't because he has a homphobic family!!! In was a little shocked because I do have 2 gay family members I am certainly not homophobic.

It transpires that he is scared to tell us because his gp's (my in laws) are catholic and they can't watch Gentleman Jack because it is about lesbians. In fact they did say this the other day. Further through the chat he talks about his dad and how disgusted he would be. Him and my DH (his dad) do not get on and I think this is because my DH worries he is gay and tries to make him not gay and my son rebels against this.

He has said to be before that if our son was to be gay that he would find it very very difficult to take on board and that his mental health which isn't the best anyway would suffer. When my brother came out gay 30 years ago my dad was distraught and very very angry and they had a similar relationship that my son and his dad have they didn't get on because my brother was not interested in cars or football like my dad. Now though they are so close and they bonded when my dad realised that because he was gay he had no interest in the things my dad did and that it wasn't him being awkward . My dad really thought he hated him as a child.

Everyone says that people are more accepting nowadays but most straight mean you speak to in RL I think do say they would find it hard. So my question is how did your other halves react when your son's came out gay??

You seem overly focused on what other men may or may not think.

You already know what your husband thinks, and what his parents think. And that's the situation you've got to deal with. It doesn't really matter how anyone else's dad or brother reacted. Asking MN for examples of homophobia is just diversion and it won't help you or your son much.

Silk flowers and make-up tutorials? Your son sounds fucking brilliant, quite frankly. It sounds like he is well on the way along what is/will be quite a complicated journey of knowing exactly who he is.

If your husband continues trying to squash that part of him, he's simply going to drive him away. Your son already is who he is. Silk flowers, knitting and everything else.

By focusing on your son's behaviour, mannerisms and activities, you/your husband risk stigmatising who he is in service to a vague, outdated societal stereotype. Making your son feel like he is the problem here. He isn't the problem here. The problem here is your husband's and in-laws' rigidity of views and likely homophobia.

The answer to your issue is this: forget about 'other men', anyone else's husbands, partners or parents. Let your son be who he is, and go to war with anyone who tries to get in his way.

If you were ok with your son being the way he is then you would have told your h not to do the whole football and car thing. Men can be fashion designers, makeup artists and create art regardless of their sexuality and he should be happy that his son has hobbies and skills that could even lead to careers. A major reason that they don't get along is probably because your son knows that his dad is homophobic as his actions suggest that he'd rather have a son with different interests. Very sad and damaging to your son's self esteem.

Why would it be especially hard for a man to accept his son is gay? Would he find it easier if he had a gay daughter? Is he scared of telling his parents ?

but there are men who do find it hard to accept their sons not being like them and liking more masucline things.

Yes, and those men are arseholes.

You need to have a little chat with DH and tell him he doesn't get to be uncomfortable with having a gay son. Period. It's not your or your DS's job to make him comfortable.

To be clear I have grown up with a gay brother*
That's fine, but it's not your child.

and have absolutely no problem what so ever with my child being gay.*
Actually you do, because you're currently supporting your DH over your son, because you've not put a stop to him making your son feel uncomfortable.

I embrace his individuality and love him for being him.*
That's great. But somehow he's not entirely feeling that "him being him" is ok, is he?

I have lots of gay friends as well as straight friends. I often go to pride events with the children
This is all about other people. Internalised homophobia has stopped plenty of people admitting to themselves who they really are, despite attending pride and bring happy to have friends/relatives who are gay. It's entirely possible to be happy for other people to be gay and have a problem with it closer to home. I say this as an observation not a criticism as it's something my upbringing instilled in me.

and it has never been a taboo subject in my house
Well it isn't if it's other people who are gay, but when it comes to your son feeling he can be out in your house, to him it is a taboo. That means there's a dissonance between the atmosphere you think you've created and what the reality is for the only gay person in your house. Maybe that's all your DH's fault? Or maybe it's primarily his fault, but your tacit support of his views by not making very clear that he's wrong has imparted the message that your home is not a safe place for your child to be out.

Everybody on this thread is telling you basically the same thing and you're ignoring it and saying you want one type of response. Perhaps you should go to Gransnet and see if there are posters there who can help. It's possible that there are more men of that generation with gay kids who shared your DHs views, so they can give you the advice you're looking for?

I guess some men want mini versions of themselves for sons and some women want mini versions of themselves for daughters. In which case for their child to be different in any way might feel like a rejection of themselves. But that is all about ego and self centred mess, and not at all to do with the child.

Your DS being different to your DH is not him rejecting your DH and the sooner he gets his head around it the less damage he will do to your DS and their relationship.

If youre in the UK then I am surprised you know so many homophobes in 2022. My dd is gay and noone has an issue with it that I know of, and id soon shut anyone down that thought it was any of their business

it is clear you RESPECT your husbands homophobia and you want a way to tiptoe around it. Well I’m glad nobody has given it to you.

your DH has the problem here. He didn’t get the son he expected, well tough. He needs to manage his disappointment and move on.

stop cosseting your husband. Homophobia is alive because of people like you who tell themselves they’re not homophobic but fall over themselves to protect family members who are. That is why your son says his family is homophobic. This is what a homophobic family looks like.

Im sorry to be so brash.

If my husband was going to 'struggle with his mental health' because of my sons sexuality I would leave my husband. That's not right.

Your poor son

Not tackling your h and IL's homophobia is the same as condoning it making you homophobic too. Having gay family members doesn't mean you're not.

While there are men who wouldn't like their son to be gay, they are a nasty minority. Not accepting your son the way he is, is horrible. Saying that it would affect his MH is horrible. His friends say the same because people are sometimes too polite to say wtf Do you live in the UK? The only way I would have remained married to a man like this is if I was living in a place where being gay is punishable by death so having projects like the car would protect your son from scrutiny. Save the dramatic "affecting MH" statements for when something actually bad.

Your DH is homophobic. You need to have a very serious conversation with him or he will ruin his relationship with DS forever. He needs therapy or something to explore what the fuck is wrong with him.

My parents are in their 70s and are racist homophobes. Dad once said 'I'd rather you come home with a woman than a black man'. I think I replied 'what about a black woman?'

I (straight and married to a white man, to the relief of my parents) really struggle to reconcile the lovely kind person my dad is (to me) with the horrific attitudes he holds towards others.

As an aside - I hate the assumptions that there are feminine and masculine pastimes and that enjoying the 'wrong' one makes you either gay or trans. DH does all the sewing - he's totally straight. His uncle (straight afaik) bakes a mean cake. I'm (straight female) here in my jeans and hoodie about to plan a Physics lesson. People do not need to be in such narrow boxes.

You can be accepting of people being gay and still homophobic. Homophobia isnt just writing big signs saying no gays. You can accept your son as gay but still not welcome it and still view it as 'lesser'

Your husband is blatantly homophobic. Hes homophobic enough to be open about his homophobia. Your acceptance of this and complete inability to understand that his views are pretty vile show some level of homophobia in yourself. Your son will be damaged by his fathers attitude

In all honestly would every single one of your husbands partners be ok with their sons knitting and doing make up?

Yes.

I cannot fathom a situation where we would have an issue with the sex of the people our children are attracted to.

Knitting and wearing make up isn't anything to do with sexuality, but yes I can't imagine DH being even slightly concerned that his son is either gay or participating in a feminine activity

As it happens my brother (a straight male) is into knitting and my dad literally could not care less. Like he gives the same level of shit as he did about our childhood computer games. I cant imagine him caring any more if he came out in make up.

He has said to be before that if our son was to be gay that he would find it very very difficult to take on board and that his mental health which isn't the best anyway would suffer.

Well he'll just have to get over it won't he?

OP — I am sorry some people have been very critical of you when it us clear you love your son and are seeking ways to support him.
I agree with the person who suggested you begin to have conversations with your husband along the lines of “I think our son might be gay”. (It isn’t necessary and probably isn’t helpful to reveal you read text messages.) You could give the examples of the men you know and how important it was for one to receive support from his parents and how hurtful it was to not receive support. Emphasise you both need to wait til your son wishes to identify himself to you but also say you need to start to lay the groundwork by making it clear you are open to all relationships, etc.

As for those who equate being uncomfortable to learn a son or daughter is gay with homophobia: I strongly disagree. It is NOT homophobic to worry about a child. Let’s not kid ourselves! Being gay can be difficult and no one wants life to be difficult for a child (of whatever age). If we assume 10% of the population is gay (pulling a number out of the air), a heterosexual male can assume 45% of the population (ie 90% of heterosexual females) could potentially be romantic partners — and that 45% is fairly easily identifiable. For a gay man, only 5% of the population is potentially a romantic partner and it is not obvious who those men might be. Joining lgbt groups helps to address this challenge but also potentially restricts social life to a small subset of society and going to gay clubs or “cruising” for casual relationships can be dangerous, especially for young men. No doubt I will be told my views are antiquated but just read the newspapers and you will quickly find horrifying incidents of young gay men encountering physical danger. To worry about the risks and to worry about the impact on a child’s social life is not homophonic — it is a sign of concerned parenting. How to be supportive of a son or daughter while also helping them navigate the inherent risks of early homosexual lives (until one has entered a stable relationship) — is a great challenge. I hope OP and her husband can overcome it.

My (ex) husband struggled with my child being gay, as did his family and my brothers.

I got rid of the lot of them out of mine and my child's lives.

I don't think the advice to out your child to your homophobic husband is good advice at all. I also don't think you should read your sons messages without letting him know you would be doing it (I check my kids phones but it's an agreement we have and they know I do it).

Speak to your child before you do anything else.

If/when your child comes out and isn't supported make sure that you are his safe space and that you won't allow homophobic people in his life.

I don't think you are right. Most men I know would maybe take a beat to recalibrate from a default assumption that their child would be straight but ultimately be unphased by their child coming out. So, I think most men (and women) labour under a heteronormative worldview but not homophobic one.

I think I need to tell DH that I have evidence that DS is gay and that he needs to learn to accept it before he comes out. It is difficult because I don't want to have him say anything because I don't want DS to know I read his messages.

Please don't out your son to your homophobic husband.

As for those who equate being uncomfortable to learn a son or daughter is gay with homophobia: I strongly disagree. It is NOT homophobic to worry about a child.

OPs husband has tried to make their son not gay, and seeing to think being gay means not being masculine. How is that not homophobia?

At the end of the day you should just be looking At your DS as a human fgs

" being gay is normal now " plz read back what your putting here

i agree with the poster who said its none of anyone business who you sleep with why the big issue.

Life is hard as it is, why make it harder. Your sex life is nobodys elses business.

My ds came out to me when he was 12, he didn't tell exh until he was 17, he is just in his first relationship at 18 & this weekend one of his dad's family has nosied on his facebook & told the whole family, both ds & I are fuming, it wasn't their story to tell.

I wasn't upset when ds came out to me but worried that he may meet a lot of prejudice & about him being assaulted because he was gay.

So OPs son should hide his sexuality from his family?