just got a nasty solicitors letter

[ObessiveCullenDisorder]

from exp demanding that I allow him to take ds age 3 away abroad for a week on the 7th June and if I dont agree I will be taken to court where they will make me allow it.

he does have regular contact with ds but has only recently started having him for 2 nights consecutively (has only happened 3 times) and he took him away for a weekend last september for 2 nights in this country.

The final part of the letter threatens me because I took him abroad when he was 9 months old without his written permission even though I have a court order for reasonable contact in my favour.

Apart from the fact its a massive difference from holidaying 2 nights in the same country to a week abroad, ds doesnt like being away from me and we have the same upset every time he goes. He is only 3 and not old enough to know his own mind and wont understand why he wont see me for so long.

In addition exp and his parents have serious drinking problems (he regularly gets locked up for violence etc etc) and they are also going. He would also refuse to have contact with me while they are away.

Any advice? I'm really going out of my mind here. will they force me to allow it?

imo thats their lookout if they've booked the holiday and only mentioned it 3 weeks before im certainly not paying for it

This is awful.

OP I am with you here...it isn't about the best interests of the child if he doesn't want to be separated from his primary attachment figure.

When the hell are the courts going to catch up with child psychology...this is so wrong

exactly ConDemNation and they know full well how upset he would be exp has never ever had ds's interests at heart, only actions to upset me. He isnt even there for the majority of contact he dumps him at his parents

Well it sounds to me as if he's trying to bully you and scare you into complying. Sending a solicitor's letter out of the blue 3 weeks before the proposed holiday is hardly constructive parenting - is this the first you've heard of the trip? This is not a constructive way to act in your son's best interests and it's going to be very destructive in the long term if he can't work in partnership with you.

If I were you I would contact your solicitor on Monday. I'd (subject to solicitor's advice) probably write a very calm letter in reply pointing out that this is the first you've heard of it and clearly stating your concerns about the trip at such short notice. Try to be positive if possible (i.e. if you mean it and don't have welfare concerns against it) and state that you'd be happy to support a trip when your concerns are addressed. Set out what you think needs to happen before that point e.g. trial short holidays in UK, well established staying contact, sufficient notice to prepare him, drinking addressed. Focus everything on your son's welfare and make sure that it's clear that you're supportive of developing your son's relationship with his dad (again, assuming you are!) just in the right framework. It's then up to him to try to apply for a court order - the status quo is that it's your decision whether or not he goes.

The holiday you took at 9 months is irrelevant if it was allowed by the court order at the time. You won't have to pay for the trip if he can't go. The court can make compensation orders like that but only if you've refused to comply with a court order e.g. if the court had said that he would have a week's summer holiday and then you refused to hand him over for the trip.

All of that is of course subject to your solicitor's advice - there's no hard and fast rules.

he mentioned a week ago if he could and i basically said he was a bit young at the minute but an extended weekend in the uk would be fine and i heard nothing else until today

Don't panic. The clause about him needing permission to take the children abroad for up to 4 weeks is standard when there is a residence order and you are not breaching the order by refusing consent.

What are the exact terms of the order? You would only be in breach if the order specifies you must make the children available for a week's holiday.

the only thing it mentions is him needing written consent and i have to give him reasonable access

Ok from your subsequent posts it seems that this is about you: "I can't get to him" / "what if something goes wrong".

At the end of the day this man is your DS's dad. Whatever has happened subsequently, he is still permitted to have access to your child, and be for that access to be unsupervised. So he cannot be deemed a threat.

I know it is hard the first time DCs go away without you. My youngest was 3 when I split with her dad and it tore me apart. I sat and sobbed for a whole week.

But actually whilst she was very attached to me and cried when I wasnt around, once she went away and was with her dad she was fine and had a lovely time.

There are going to be bigger battles ahead. That is just the nature of the beast.

It sounds to me like your exP wants to have access to his child, and to take him on holiday. Yes it is short notice but he has probably been putting it off because of exactly this reaction.

He wants it to be easy, he wants your permission, but knows you will not give it so he feels he has no alternative but to get solicitors involved.

Please remember that you don't have to be so angry and defensive. I know that sounds patroniising, and I really dont mean it to be.

You are going to have a life long relationship with this person, like it or not, graduations, weddings etc will all need some kind of involvement. Don't make it an angry confrontation every time.

Agree, but with the proviso that you be allowed call for a chat and that you really hope it all goes well.

I know that people advising her to allow it are trying to help and give good general advice but the OP says her exP has a drink problem and regularly gets locked up for violence. There's presumably a history here that we don't know about and it's difficult to say whether the OP is reasonable without knowing all the facts. I'm sorry but the idea that because a court has given him unsupervised access he is not a threat is naive. Virtually any parent who wants contact with their child will be awarded it by the courts and there is a lot of concern that the courts aren't taking risks to the child seriously enough, whether that's actual risk of violence to the child or just inadequate parenting. Of course in an ideal world the parents would act amicably with the child at the centre of their decisions and the child would have a wonderful relationship with both parents. Hopefully this will develop for the OP and her exP. At the moment it doesn't sound as if it has and the exP doesn't sound as if he is helping in that regard (not allowing contact when away, threatening solicitors' letters at short notice etc).

The OP is posting on legal not relationships and is asking about the legal position and not the rights and wrongs of her decision. From the info she's given here the legal position is that it's her decision and he'll have to go to court to try to challenge that. The OP has a residence order that gives her primary responsibility for her son's welfare and she is best placed to know her child. Of course she should reflect to make sure she is looking at her child's best interests but it may be quite reasonable for her to do that and still have concerns about the trip. If I were her I would write, as I've said, outlining my concerns but supporting a developing relationship as those concerns are addressed. Hopefully she can be constructive whilst trying to protect her DS.

bigger battles ahead......i meant as your son grows up,schooling....a whole new world,but your ex may want to be very involved.....longer overnights clashing with organised activities,your ds may want to spend longer at his dads or live there....it goes on...big battles.

I am certainly not saying he can never take ds abroad, im saying that there hasnt been enough established longer contact. As I said in OP he had ONLY HAD HIM FOR 2 NIGHT CONSECUTIVELY 3 TIMES!!!! then all of a sudden he wants a week when ds is still trying to adapt to this change

this would be enough for a cafcass officer...and you could always give the ex some extra contact over the next 3 weeks to build up his experience of overnights. this would also benefit your ds as he could get used to more time with his dad.

theres time...would that be an option?

courts dont expect a long history of this kind of thing as most dads work in the week and weekends are the only time for overnights...

i doubt that exp will want anything to do with schooling issues. i have asked him countlessly to take him for injections,when he had to attend hospital after a fall at nursery, to come and visit his pre-school, even birthday parties and he refuses all the time, we even had to have seperate christening parties becasue he is incapable of being civil to me. As for keeping things amicable i have tried and tried and tried but all I get is either abusive and threatening texts (for which solicitors have been involved in the past) or I get asked to go to his for sex. Both of which are entirely unwelcome so i cant be accused of not trying to be amicable. I even recently had to change my number because he wont leave me alone.

I can be seen to wanting my son to progress in his relationship with him, as it was me who suggested he now have him 2 nights per fortnight instead of one, I gave him this chance even though I know fine well and have seen with my own eyes, he goes out and gets drunk rather than caring for him. A good example of this was last year, he requested to have ds on the friday instead of sat, dumped him at his parents and was arrested on suspicion of murder that night and i found this out from a friend, his parents didnt even have the decency to ring and tell me they had ds

in addition to this, he flat out refused to have him last weekend because he was poorly and thought it would be "unfair to take him away from his mum" - suspiciously after he found out neither of us had slept for 4 nights and his cousin was going out to whet his baby's head. So if he cannot cope with him for 2 nights when he's ill how can I trust him for a week

i know its all horrible,god,been there too. but his parents having ds? (i mean well here) its none of your business who he leaves his child with whilst he's got him for access....if you ever went out or left him in childcare,or with a babysitter its your call, when he has him,its his.

I do realise this but then it seems to be my fault that ds wont willingly go to him, only his mum and dad but he took me to court for contact, the contact is for him, not them. the way i see it is if he wants more time with him, he should spend what he's got with him. its his fault not mine

I know nothing about the legal aspects but sympathise hugely with you. I agree with ConDemNation who said 'it isn't about the best interests of the child if he doesn't want to be separated from his primary attachment figure.' That is so true. You are not saying never, just not yet.

It should be short and often not a week away if he is very attatched to his primary carer. He is only 3. Maybe school age would be better for a longer time away from you but a long weekend may be OK? instead of saying no, see if he would comprimise (Unlikely but worth a try).

It seems more about fathers rights these days even if they are rubbish and selfish. Surely if he were decent, he would not want to take his son if he knew he would be upset. i totally agree that fathers should have rights. I know DH suffered through never seeing his dad due to bitter break up, BUT although it may seem 'sexist' or old fashioned to many, little children (under 4's) are often more attatched to their mum and it is natural in many ways, this should be taken into account.

thank you jellybeans - i asked him if he would consider 4 nights in this country but I had no reply until this letter. it is him being unreasonable its always all or nothing with him whereas Im thinking of whats best for ds

the courts would say more time with his dad is in ds best interests

and more time means less 'separation anxiety' from 'primary carer'

surely in steps though ILoveTiffany from my previous experience with the courts this has been the case

assuming he works,then i think having had overnights,2 consecutive nights,there are no further hoops for him to jump through. as i said before,why not offer him some more time now? or for next week? so it builds up a bit more,if he works then he can't......

go and post this on wikivorce,see what advice they can give. with the build up to the holiday season i'm sure its a hot topic there

i would be more cautious about ash clouds and him not being brought back after the week is up! more clouds causing disruption. where is he supposed to be taking him?

What a bizarre letter. Are you sure it's from a solicitor? Seems really unprofessional at the very least to threaten/remind you that you took DS out of the country over 2 years ago.

You aren't refusing. You are saying that there hasn't been enough established contact and therefore not in DS interests at the moment. I think you're being very reasonable and level headed.

Further, you have concerns about communication about DS welfare when he is with his father (being arrested for murder, I think is a legitimate concern )

was he tried for murder??

no he wasnt tried for it, but my point there was that he had ds at the time and he was arrested at a renowned drug dealers house as he was there when the murder was committed WHEN DS WAS IN HIS CARE. It seems to me that he can just do whatever the hell he wants and the court will still sympathise with him whether its in ds's best interests or not. If you knew the family I am dealing with you would share my concerns believe me

and thank you I love my dog.... thats exactly what im saying u put it across better than i did!