Landlord bullying - service charge

[groundhogs]

Can anyone please help?

I took on a rental 8 months ago, no mention of service charge was ever made, and now LL has tried to tell me that I have £170 to pay to bring it up to date, and £21 odd per month thereafter.

Now, in all instances I've ever heard of where service charge applies, it's included in the rent, as the bill can never be reassigned to anyone other than the owner of the house.

I spoke to a solicitor informally (he's not legal aid, and pricey, but kindly gave me his opinion) he said Service charge is not a utility (which is what LL is saying) He says that as it's not specifically mentioned on the contract that it's not applicable.

I also spoke to the letting agent of a house 2 doors down from me, and HE said the same. He also said that as the original 6m of the agreement is up, that she can't increase the rent, or alter the contract.

I was feeling all strong and confident after talking to the above, but now she's just sent me a text to say the opposite, and now she's now threatening to serve me notice, all for £21 a month.

Can anyone put my mind at rest?

You've spoken to a solicitor. He's right. If there is no service charge in the agreement, the landlord can't force you to pay.

You are probably an assured shorthold tenant unless it says otherwise in your tenancy agreement. If you are, your rent cannot normally be increased without your agreement unless the tenancy agreement specifically allows for rent increases. However, your landlord may be able to evict you.

I strongly recommend consulting your local CAB. They will be able to give you advice and, if necessary, point you to a solicitor who can help without costing you an arm and a leg.

thank you so much.

I'm going to see the cab at our council offices tomorrow.

I also discovered that she should have given me details of the deposit scheme 14 days after she took my deposit. I've requested this, which she says she'll provide, am i right to think i can get a court order to force her to provide this info if she's as slow at providing the info as she has been literally about everything else?

I rather think she will evict.. It really looks like it at the moment... But tbh, either way, i'm going to look at a new house tomorrow evening, thru an agent this time.. I'm leaving. It's not going to get any better is it? Could do with more space anyway...

Again, thanks so much, really appreciate your help.

The contract is an assured shorthold tenancy agreement.

LL keeps referring to clause 3.2 To pay promptly to the authorities to whom they are due, council tax, and outgoings (including water and sewerage, gas and electricity and any telephone charges relating to the property) including those that are imposed after the date of this agreement (even of a novel nature) and to pay the total cost of the reconnection fee relating to the supply of gas, electricity or telephone if the same should be disconnected"

She told me that this is for the upkeep and maintenance of the communal areas.

I found this online, is this pertinent too?

"Communal Areas and Gardens

With regard to communal areas such as the entrance to a block of flats, the landlord would normally be responsible to maintain these areas of the property. The landlord would normally have a shared responsibility for these areas with the other flat owners.

A tenant may be responsible for maintaining the garden, if this is stated in the tenancy agreement. However, if it is not mentioned in the agreement then it would not be the tenant?s responsibility."

Can this LL with-hold my deposit, or keep any part of it to cover this amount she is telling me I ought to pay?

Yes, the landlord does have to provide information about the deposit. I'm not sure it is worth getting a court order for that information. However, if she hasn't protected your deposit she can be ordered to repay three times the amount of the deposit to you.

I would see what CAB say about eviction as a lot depends on the details of your tenancy agreement. At one level you are doing the community a service if you make the landlord forcibly aware of her obligations. However, if I were in your position I'd probably look to move out and hope to find a better landlord.

Oh sure, I wouldn't just saddle up my legal high horse and charge in, unless I really have to..

I just wanted to understand that I have an unalienable right to that information... thanks for confirming that!

I can't get out of this agreement any earlier than 2m can I? ...Not even if I cite that she's making it very hard for me to stay???

Clause 3.2 that you quote does not relate to maintenance of communal parts. It relates to usual utilities (gas/ water/ electric/ telephone)and council tax. These utilities are your responsibility as you contract with the supplier in each case for the supply.

You cannot be evicted for non payment of an amount attributable to service charge which is not contractually payable by the lease.

REgarding termination then it is very important for you to be advised by someone who has seen the terms of your lease and can apply the relevant law specifically to the dates and circumstances relevant to you.

With due reverence to the many, very good letting/estate agents around, speak to a solicitor versed in residential tenancies or a legally qualified member of the CAB. Alternatively, you might like to know many of the law schools and university legal departments run advice clinics for the puropose of training students. You may not get immediate advice there and then but you will get well researched supervised advice for free.

groundhogs, if your agreement is a Shorthold Assured Tenancy as you say, and there is nothing in your contract that says otherwise, you only have to give your LL one months notice. S/he must give you, two months notice.

Ladies, thanks so much for your replies.

I'm going to see the CAB at my housing office today so ought to get an official position on all this later.

The notice period for both sides is stipulated as 2m either side. I will however ask the CAB if we can deem this as unreasonable, given her current animosity toward me.

Again, thanks so much, I truly appreciate you taking the time to help.

UPDATE: The CAB/Shelter are awesome!!

Clause 3.2 - the first part refers purely to utilities and payments made to an authority. LL is NOT an authority, neither is the management company. Service charge therefore is not covered under this contract in any way at all.

The second part of the clause the 'of a novel nature' bit, Shelter and their people think is actually an illegal clause!

... but wait, there's more....

She said she was going to write me a letter to extend the contract, I said as it stood was perfectly enforceable (what did I know? but it wasn't with any mal-intent, i assure you) It took forever, 2m and counting, and she never bothered to send the letter.

Turns out that I was wrong. Now that the tenancy agreement has passed it's 6m, without any letter formally extending that contract it is now deemed as a Periodic Staturory agreement. Which means that the 2m notice period written into the original contract can no longer be enforced. I can give her 1m notice, but she still has to give me 2m.

Lastly, the deposit. If she tries anything, and I mean ANYTHING, I can, right now instruct legal proceedings and sue her for 3times the amount of my deposit, because she spectacularly failed to notify me of the deposit scheme into which she deposited my £1200.....

SO.. I can tell her I'm giving her notice, I can tell her it's one month, and I can tell her to return my full deposit, OR I will get a court order for £3600...... OH, and I have SIX years to get the court order, whether I'm in her property or not.....

mwah ha ha ha ha!

I'm going back to the CAB next week to pick up the print offs of the Shelter stuff above.

Thanks all of you for your support... I really appreciate it!

Excellent news!

Wooo-hoooo GH! Stick it to her! hahahha.

So what is the new place like? Make sure that you don't get another LL like her, and seeing that the CAB have been great so far, get them to check over everything before signing. Just to be safe.

I haven't been on MN on a good couple of months, and you get me back here to find out all this!

Go groundhogs!!!!

GAH, she just doesn't give up... she is now saying that she wants to write a new contract cos DH is back, to raise the rent to include the money she wants me to pay.

She is also telling me that she wants to do an inspection and that the safety certificate needs renewing this coming Tuesday.

I've told her that DH is not actually permanently living here, he has a residential job and only visits here on his days off. So that's one attack repelled.

On top of all this stress, DH's being an arse and the whole thing is falling around my ears atm.

I've told her I can't do Tuesday, and due to her harassment and attempts to do anything to force me to pay a bill that is not mine, I will not be happy for her to enter my home unescorted. Contractually, I believe she can enter on a court order if I'm not paying the rent, or in the event of an emergency. Otherwise, given the circumstances, I think I'm within my rights to refuse her access to my home.

I've told her that I'm happy for the chap to come, and that I will of course let him in, but it has to be when I can make it. I've offered alternative dates and said to pass on my number to him or his to me to organise it properly.

I can't actually sleep with this worry, I feel sick all the time. I just wish the new house thing was fully confirmed, so I can draft my notice letter.

I now understand why her previous tenant called the police on her check out date.

On the new contract thing, how likely is it that she'll get round to writing it (and getting it to you) in the next couple of weeks? She's been poor at communications in the past. And, of course, if/when she does write a new contract, you don't have to accept it, and you can take your own sweet time to "have it checked over" and make your mind up as to whether to accept it. And you still have the option to give her one month's notice - so the new house thing has time to happen yet.

True, true. Gah I know this, and it does help quell the panic, but the flaming thing is stressing me so much, I feel sick all the time, DESPITE actually being in a strong and safe position. I just want OUT of here now.

She told me that she was giving me 2month notice of the new contract. As you said, I can just say, hmm, I'll have it looked at, which buys me some time, and then I can give her notice... or do nothing in which she has to give me 2m notice. And she is only allowed to show the flat in the last month of my tenancy. As it goes, by DH not being here, she has now lost her reason to re-write the contract.....

She is literally trying anything, wanted to do a LL inspection, I told her no, not now, and that I didn't want her coming into my home because she will try to take advantage and dig up some silly reason for a new contract to be written.

I've managed to put off the Safety Certificate inspection that she wanted/demanded to let herself in to do. Thankfully now I'm in direct contact with them so she won't be able to demand to come.

Only thing is that without the flaming Landlord reference, at present the new house let I'm looking into is looking dicey...

I have 2 personal refs, that are glowing, I have no adverse credit, pay everything off as soon as I get it, I have given my mum's details too, and am paying 5m rent up front.... what MORE?

If anyone happens to know of a 2bed house in Hook, Hants that needs a really good tenant...???

This is quite close to home, didn't think there could be such a shyster conniving landlord in the village.

Honestly, she'll be charging you extra for the air that you breathe next.

Good luck with the new let - if I hear of a house for rent.... (unlikely but you never know). Maybe with the Infants school Ofsted rating slipped a bit now, housing demand may slacken off.

Tell your landlord that if she persists you will bring a claim against her under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977. Harrassment is a criminal offence.

You might also want to tell her that she is denying you your right to quiet enjoyment.

Remember you do not have to allow access, despite what she might say. She can't even force access for that safety inspection. Whilst it is a legal requirement for her to have a valid certificate that does not give her the right to enter your property without permission.

Oh my God, just read that you are in Hook, about five miles away. I run a property management company in Fleet.

Let me know where your landlord lives and I will send the boys round

OK so she came round, despite me telling her - and the company - that Today was not convenient.

She had told me that I didn't need to be there, but I told her that I would escort the guy, alone and that as she has been so aggressive and looking for literally any reason she can do to force me to pay her stupid service charge... (£169 back charges and £21.28 a month I hasten to add...) that she would not be permitted to enter my home.

But they came anyway I let the guy in, and she and her teenage daughter stood there shouting the odds at me on the doorstep. She then presented me with 2 letters, one reiterating her previous letter, with a PS saying that as I have not replied to her letter, she would give me notice. 2m.

The other letter is the section 21 notice.

NOW, evil thoughts here, Little Miss Menancing the supposedly 18yo thug daughter said that the house is HER house and that I have no rights... That I have to just do what I'm told and leave. Cos SHE is moving back into the house....

SOOOO, as I understand it, if the landlord is taking back the house for her own possession, she won't be needing to show anyone around it until the date 1 June - that she legally is demanding possession of her house....

When the guy left, LL sat in her car for 20 mins waiting for me to leave. I was in a neighbours house, she saw it all.

I even photographed the woman. I called my DH to come over from his work, as I was due to go out and really didn't want the house left empty.

The neighbour told me that she is pretty sure that the LL entered the previous tenants house... and I know for sure that there was bitter hatred between the ex tenant and the LL, she called the police, and actually alleged assault by the LL.

I feel such a fool, I got well and truly suckered by this LL, i should have taken this all as a sign... but I was living at my mum and her H house, that was a harsh environment, and I had to wait 3m for the house to be ready for me to move into it. I have a feeling that the LL literally made that poor chinese woman's life hell before she left.

Race relevant cos it means that she was on her own here.... The state she left the place in too, i cursed that woman, but now I'm beginning to understand.

BigBad.. don't tempt me.. I have CAT.... I just could accidentally email her address!!! I'll be in Fleet myself tomorrow, at the Harlington, DS music school.... see you there?

OH, btw, the landlord cert apparently ran out weeks ago....

One more thing... can I get a door chain to prevent any unauthorised access??... and as long as I make good it's OK right, not like I'm changing the locks....

SHHH portia! you'll give her ideas!!!

Absolutely NOWT on the lettings front that is a better deal than the one I've seen and offered on.... I've sent them a little email to see if they have any news.. perhaps the no news from them is not bad news, perhaps they are tracking down my personal refs.......

The other issue I have yet to deal with is the school place.... DS is due to start at the Infant school in Sept, I have a place, confirmed.

If I move to - let's say Holt Park, I recall the secretary saying that some people on HP didn't get places... would they be able to take my school place off me, because I'm no longer in the catchment - through absolutely no fault of my own????

Argh this nightmare never seems to end. Have poured myself a glass of rose, tis purely medicinal, i can assure you...

You are entitled to change the locks.

Your tenancy agreement will say something along the lines of "if you change locks during the tenancy you must ensure that all keys are returned to the landlord at the end of the tenancy".

I would do whatever you feel you need to do to feel safe.

OK so she has given you a Section 21. So in theory you have to move out in two months.

As you are now in Statutory Period it has to be "two periods notice" on her side and therefore on a rent due date. Was the rent due today?

If it was due four days ago for example, it would be deemed to start from the next rent due date and THEN be two months.

I wouldnt worry about teh school place. You have the place based on the address at the time of admission. You do not have to tell them you arem moving, and you did not claim fraudulently for the place.

RIght, so you have no Gas Safety Certificate? That is a criminal offence.

Your deposit is not protected? So is that.

IF she wants to play nasty she better be fucking ready.

I have never lost in court and I have been there quite a few times. THey know me well in Aldershot .

If her daughter is moving back in, no you do not have to permit viewings. In fact you do not have to allow them even if she wasn't.

IT IS YOUR HOME at the moment and she is being a complete arse.

I hate landlords like this. THey make me so fricking angry.

I can write you a landlord reference if you want

Would love to see you at the Harlington but I have to go and visit my granny to teach her how to send an email (God, will the excitement never end?)

I dont have CAT but you can email me on tanya barrow at hot mail dot co dot uk if I can help.

I used to work for a large local lettings company and might be able to help you get a discount on any letting agents fees etc and help with looking for something else.

BBM thank you thank you thank you!

2m is given from date of payment indeed, so as that's the first of the month, she's saying she'll retake possession on 1 june.

I got a letter from the deposit protection scheme dated 15th March saying that my deposit was now protected, and the date given as received as 1 august. the day I moved into the house...

.. but I paid my deposit to her on 10th June... her signed letter to me on that date proves it.

I have emailed them to ask WHEN this amount was registered with them, and told them that the deposit was paid on 10 June... we shall see what happens there...

NOW, Draycott vs Hannells Letting agent. Tenant recently lost in court over the TDS and a new judgement is due end of this month, or the beginning of April, so CAB advise to wait for the hopefully positive outcome of that to re-change the law back in the favour of the tenant, more than it currently is.

BBM, thank you! I'll email you!

HUG!

No-one saw that did they?

Oh honey - I have no idea about all the legalities, but here for you in moral support!

And WOW @ BBM! I think with BBM's help, the two of you will be a right force to be reckoned with

I don't care about the rules... mahoosive hugs!

Ah, VK, you are a tonic!

mahoosive hugs back at ya!

btw, is mahoosive a MN identifier????

I find myself wanting to say it in RL, but pull back... also find myself attempting visual ... but that's another story... best keep that to ourselves eh?

Oh yeah VK...

(tis my own thread, believe I have first dibs on hijacking it..)

YOUR MOVE ON SCRABBLE MRS!

Groundhogs,

I understand that next September there will be one less reception class at the infant school.

Good luck with everything.