Solicitor involvement in will & post-death admin

[MyDadIsTheGreatest]

My elderly father is likely to die soon. He has a will and I think my brother and I are the executors. It's fairly straightforward as everything will be split between the two of us and our children (who are all under 18), he & I get on well and are both happy with the terms of the will. There is a house which will be sold, and various shares / investments. My cousin is a solicitor and has a copy of my dad's will.

My dad insists that we "have to use the cousin" as the solicitor to deal with things after his death including sorting out the financial side of things. What I'm not clear on is what role does the solicitor play after my dad's death? What would we need to get him to do?

There is no requirement to use a solicitor at all unless they are named as executor. If you don’t know if you’re named as executor then I’m assuming you haven’t seen the will.

Check who is the named executor. It might be the cousin. Have you actually seen the will?

They fill in forms

If this estate isn’t complicated, that’s about it

Will your cousin charge you?

Who witnessed the will and did your dad use a solicitor to write it?
My dc each have a copy of my will and details of the solicitor who drafted it. I consider this to be normal practice unless there is a family feud or something.

If it is all straightforward then there’s no reason a solicitor should be involved. When my father, mother and aunt died the executors dealt with everything and no solicitor was required. If your cousin is an executor than he will, with the other executors, be responsible for dealing with matters.

In my experience, my family members who were named as executors were told about this before the relatives died and received copies of the will in advance,

Phil Weston offers a service whereby he streamlines and highlights the tasks needed for probate, which could be much cheaper than a usual solicitor. The problem with collecting rhe paperwork is the possibility to miss out some steps from the sequence, or misunderstanding what reply an official document is actually expecting for your situation. Ive not actually done one myself, and yes they should be straightforward. However a sibling did these for our parents which took much longer than expected (without a solicitor) and so incurred tax fines.

Berkeley Weston offer what they call an assisted service for ~ £1700 including VAT, plus the official probate fee of £300. Or they also offer a step by step guide for entirely DIY which costs a few hundred £. I'm not connected with Phil Weston, but from doing my own tax return appreciate how form filling can be nerve racking and forms are never entirely straightforward

You don’t have to use a solicitor and it is an extra expense to consider.
Having said that when DH died, I used a solicitor, they dealt with a vicious HMRC and difficult banks/investments plus found £££ I wouldn’t have as they employed a financial investigator on my behalf and dealt with the land registry for me. These were problems I was not expecting so was glad I did use a solicitor.

We (sister and I, as executors) used a local solicitor when DM died. Cost about £3k but made things so much easier. We still had to supply the relevant financial info but they did all the IHT forms dealing with HMRC and obtaining the grant of probate (was a straightforward estate, no IHT due). Also gave a discount on the conveyancing for the house sale.

I don't know whether the cousin would charge us but in principle the estate could afford to pay legal fees if needed.

I've not seen the will but I'm pretty sure my dad told my brother & me we were executors when he made it. I don't recall him saying that the cousin is also an executor but it's possible he is so I'll check. My cousin will have drawn up the will for my dad.

I'm going to have a look for the will next time I visit my dad, who's currently in a hospice. I know he has the original and my cousin has a copy but I don't know why my brother and I don't have copies - just an oversight, I think. His paperwork will be organised and I know he drew up a list of his investments about a year ago.

My dad keeps telling us he'd like us to agree to "go through the cousin" after his death as he trusts him. He keeps saying that my cousin should be given a list of the investments but I'm not sure why unless he's also an executor. (Cousin will not be inheriting anything.)

Cousin says we should speak to him after my dad dies without delay before we notify any third party organisations as he will be able to give us options. That's as clear as mud to me so I need to ask him what he means.

I don't think dealing with the estate should be very complicated but there are lots of different investments and we will have to pay inheritance tax.

I guess while you cousin is not inheriting, your dad may want him to have the benefit of a professional engagement?! It sounds like he'd be charging the estate.

OR: there has been some sort of 'situation' that the cousin has helped him with in his capacity as a lawyer that you don't know about...but may be a wee surprise to you:

Cousin says we should speak to him after my dad dies without delay before we notify any third party organisations as he will be able to give us options.

I have no idea what this means either, but I'd try to clarify that now while your dad is still alive and if it brings up questions, he's around for you to ask.

Also - it sounds like the lawyer cousin is an executor, it's all pointing in that direction.

You don't need to have seen the will in advance as executors.
You don't need to notify cousin first thing either, but will need the latest Will to do most things.

First steps are get a (well multiple) death certificate, notify bank (freezes the account for payments) and use the government Tell Us Once service (you'll be given details when you meet the registrar).

We are planning to do most of the work ourselves, but paying a solicitor to guide us and check the forms.

I don't disagree with @TeenToTwenties . I just can't work out based on the cousin and the dad's comments if @MyDadIsTheGreatest 's father has some sort of posthumous surprise planned!

yes you absolutely do need to understand what he is saying and whether or not you are executors. Do you think he might be losing his mental acuity? Have you spoken to your cousin?

i would definitely use a solicitor and if your dad is insisting on you using your cousin I would do it. I suspect there may be complexity in the probate that your dad and/or her cousin knows about. When people say do your own probate it’s easy, it is not, take a look at the probate documents you need to file, in the meantime try and ensure you have copies of bank, investment statements etc. you absolutely should pay your cousin for his work as it’s a very challenging exercise, but it may be an idea to get a total upfront cost.

I dunno. While I believe that its up to the testator to decide whether to discuss will contents with beneficiaries and executors, dropping hints like this helps nobody and could be very worrying.
We did my parents' estates without a solicitor and I employed the solicitor who wrote my late husband's will to do some pieces of work on a pay per job basis which was his suggestion. I definitely would not say its always needful or that employing the cousin without considering other options is sensible without further understanding. Unless the cousin is a named executor, the executors, whoever they are can do what they think is best, even if they have told the testator that they will do it.
I think this kind of half secrecy benefits nobody. It has the potential to affect the relationships in the testator's family while he is still alive, and to turn into a shitstorm after his death.
Only the OP knows what kind of person the cousin is, if they (the cousin) know what the testator is talking about....even if they are the right kind of solicitor...and I'd be VERY careful about "options before contacting third party organisations"
Assuming that the testator will confrm to the OP who the executors are....and assuming they are telling the truth.....if they won't say more about what they mean, I'd be considering telling them that it might be a consideration for them to withdraw from executorship, and that in any case that they cannot promise to do anything other than what the law requires and permits of executors.

I would also be wary about this business of being told to speak to the cousin before contacting third party organisations. What options is he talking about? Why can't he tell you about the options now?

All of this.

You don’t need to use a solicitor and you only need involve the cousin if he is named as an executor. Most wills are relatively straight forward and applying for probate and executing the wishes in the will are usually straight forward. Unfortunately some people are convinced it’s difficult and you need legal input ( my parents are the same but they haven’t appointed a solicitor as executor it’s me and my siblings). Check the will and unless the cousin is named as an executor you don’t need to provide them with anything or involve them. Personally if it were me I would clarify if the cousin is named and if they aren’t just gently grey rock your dad you don’t have to agree to anything and in any case if he isn’t named as an executor your dad saying involve them is only a wish , it’s not legally binding and assuming you and your siblings get on well and there is nothing contentious in the will you can do it yourself without legal involvement. In any event you will have to do the legwork to provide information and paperwork the solicitor will only fill the forms in and if you are the executors ultimately you are legally responsible not the solicitor / cousin.

Under normal circs then I'd agree. What would concern me (and I am old and not stupid) is the bit about "options to consider before talking to third parties" I'd REALLY want to know what that meant....I mean it might be just nothing and the testator has got hold of some wild idea.........but it might not......and the cousin might understand it and it might all be ok.......but it might not and if its a shit fest then the executors get to deal with it, lucky lucky them.

Using your cousin will take the weight of you and may speed things up as I assume he knows what he is doing with probate. Banks and investment companies also seem to be easier to deal with if you are a solicitor. Why not use him if that's what your dad wants? Unless he is going to be difficult about not being in the will himself. Or do you not want him to know how much your dad left you and your brother, I can see how using a less involved solicitor might be easier.

I would ask him what he meant about not talking to third parties and options to consider. It might just be solicitor speak, but he may be going to suggest something a bit devious (it is an odd phrase). Perhaps he and your dad cooked something up about minimising IHT.

As your dad is in a hospice I wonder if he keeps going on about the cousin as a way of continuing to look after you after he has gone. In his mind he wants to care for his children and part of that is not putting them to any bother over his affairs

To your mind you are an adult who can fill in a form and feel best placed to manage his estate according to his will.

Personally I would agree with your dad that having the cousin is very helpful, change the subject and then only contact the cousin if he is an executor.

It’s easy to do without a solicitor - we did my Mum’s and have helped other friends do their parents’. The IHT help desk is really helpful and the forms are straightforward, if the will is as straightforward as you say it is. A solicitor charged my cousin £45K to do probate for her parents (it was a percentage of the estate), and she said she could have done it herself and wished she had.

I dealt with all the bank and investment stuff myself including stuff in the USA. The only thing the solicitor did for me in that respect was to research and source a particular American financial certification whose name now escapes me. Apparently its common in America but the ability to grant it is personally held. Its common for banks and finance orgamisations to have staff who hold the role but at the time there was only one person in the UK and there needed to be a personal interview with an executor or personal representative for the seal to be granted....but I digress and of course things may have changed as this was 15 years ago.
I do think that this is not about "normal" will circumstances....most likely explanation IMO is some kind of cognitive deterioration (unless of course the testator has always been a little odd) but if it was me I'd need to know more.