Parking Fine - I did not exceed the limit

[MissyPants]

Hi, just wondering if anybody is able to shed some light on why I have been issued a fine please.
In October (not the day the clocks went back) I went to KFC drive through, it was busy, however I was in and out of the drive through within 24 minutes. I didn't park up or anything.
A few weeks later I received a civil enforcement from a parking company saying I outstayed the 60 minute free parking, when I didn't?
The proof they sent me states my 24 minute duration - And the timing was between 23.55 - 00.19am - so is it because it crossed over into midnight?
I have appealed stating this as my reason however my appeal has been rejected based on the reason of outstaying the 60 minute time limit?
KFC have said they can't help with it and have said I have to go through the parking agent. I can now still pay the £60 which was the initial payment but I don't feel I should have to as I didn't do anything wrong?

Many thanks!

Id respond to the rejection asking for clarification. That 23.55 to 00.19 isnt above 60 minutes and that you cant understand why the ticket has been issued

It would annoy me intensely but I'd probably pay the £60. Os there something in the small print that says if a vehicle is caught across two.different days, it will be regarded as an overnight stay.

Very annoying for you. It cannprobably be argued but might take more time.and involvement than £60 warrants.

It sounds as if their system can't cope with timings across midnight. I would stick to my guns - spell it out to them again in words of one syllable. If it did come to court it would be thrown out. Can you ask to see their proof? Do they have photos with a time stamp on?

Surely a 24 hour drive through shouldn't have split days? If they do I imagine a lot of people could be fined on that basis.

The clocks alter between 1am and 2am. That doesn't make sense at those times.

I can take my appeal further, so appeal their decision, however I don't want to risk being made to
pay more than £60 as it's not a huge amount but still could very much do without paying it. And I don't feel guilty as in i didn't exceed the limit so why should I pay? How can they do this if it was in a drive through and not 60 minutes regardless if it crossed over into midnight or not?
I think I'll drive up there this afternoon and read the signage and take a photo and decide what to do. Of course I don't need court orders or bayliffs at my door either, but I'm innocent!

I have their proof, the photo they sent me and it is time stamped to 24 minutes but crossing over into midnight.

Yes it was the week before clocks went back so not even relevant really.

Have you tried appealing through POPLA

They are bullies and trying to extort illegal gains. Of course you don't just pay it!! Email and suggest that 24 mins is less than 60. . Fucking idiots.

Can you appeal to POPLA?

Hi, yes I have that option.
However what would happen if that got rejected? Would I still be offered the £60 initial early payment option?

Was 11.55 entry and 00.19 time stamped exit on two consecutive days? If it was you are clearly correct if the signs say max 60mins. Do you have time to deal with this? Do you have free legal advice through a Union or insurance? I detest these parking parasites and I would fight, but it depends how much more you have on your plate. You could try saying that you will be charging for your time in making the appeal! Good luck

No. By the time the POPLA appeal is decided,, the early settlement period will have passed.

Bastards.

I'm in my final dissertation year of my degree, so don't have time however I am prepared to fight the bastards if I can't loose!
Yes 2 consecutive days, so I drove in on a Friday night at 11.55pm, was in the drive through, got my food and exited at 00.19 Saturday morning.
I also have a bank statement showing the transaction for KFC on that day if it would help in court or whatever.

What do you advise? I think I have a good case, I'll take a photo of the signage today and report back if it's in my favour. That will decide on what I do about it.

I would absolutely fight this. I don't understand why you'd consider paying when you didn't break the rules and can prove it.

They can't make you pay unless they take you to court and win and seeing as you didn't exceed the time limit and this can be proved, also that you bought something so can't be accused of being a non customer so breaking the rules in that respect, I'd just let them waste their time chasing you.

If it gets as far as court, the Judge will throw it straight out and give them short shrift for wasting their time on a non case.

I’m sceptical about POPLA - I think they’re not independent of the parking cowboys operators, and find in favour of the companies disproportionately often, although I have no stats to back that up.
There are other routes to resist, look up on Martin Lewis website, although you have to hold your nerve and have a ‘bring it on’ attitude against their mounting threats of court action. You have a cast iron case, they know that and will drop it just before court - but they’ll try hard to intimidate you into paying.

Me despising this underhand stuff, I’d definitely do all I could to fight it within the time limit afforded.

We won an appeal through POPLA when DP went somewhere in my car but put his registration in when he paid. He had paid for parking but just made a mistake with his registration number so the fine was cancelled.

No way don’t pay, especially if it’s a private company. Keep emailing your case, ask to speak to a manager etc don’t pay it. These companies take the absolute fucking piss tbh. You haven’t overstayed 60 minutes so you don’t need to pay. You can also prove it if bailiffs come which they probably won’t and if they did it wouldn’t be for a long time. Even if the POPLA thing got rejected (unlikely considering your proof) you literally have proof let them take you to court I’m sure the judge will laugh at them and ask them why they have wasted their time!

It doesn’t matter you don’t need to pay you didn’t stay for longer than 60 minutes. Don’t pay it!!! They do this because people that are scared easily will just pay and not say a word. You haven’t broken the rules, seriously let them send bailiffs or take you to court etc they literally don’t stand a chance. Seems like a system issue that they probably use to try and get money from people who won’t question it. Seriously don’t pay a penny ffs I can’t stress this enough

Yes, take a photo of the signage and also its location (as you need to have notice before you park).

The sign needs to state expressly that a visit that crosses over midnight will somehow 'count' as more than sixty minutes and hence attract the liquidated damages clause requiring payment of £60.* Given how surprising this term is, it would need to be set out clearly and prominently.

(*A private company does not have the power to fine you.)

By the way, if the signage in the carpark refers to full terms and conditions that are online, and that is where the 'special treatment of midnight' rule is set out, you have a good argument that this term is not part of the contract as you have not been given sufficient notice of it. The legal language is incorporation by reference, and the argument would be that either (1) none of the online terms count as you cannot expect people to access the website before they park (e.g. not everyone has a smartphone) or (2) this sort of term is suffiicently surprising and onerous that it has to be drawn specifically to your attention, it cannot be hidden away.

Why would a visit to a 24 hour fast food restaurant that crosses midnight count as more than 60 minutes/an overnight stay?

The OP was there 24 minutes. They know that, there's no mistake in the paperwork. The limit is 60. She hasn't broke the rules so doesn't need to pay. No ifs, no buts, no whataboutery.

The only way they can legally get you to pay is through taking court action and for the courts to find in their favour.

Clearly no court is going to find in their favour.

Even if their T&C’s state that any parking that straddles midnight equals 2 days, no court would accept that as a reasonable contractual term when the store where you’re shopping at is open during those hours. You’re entitled to park for free for 60 mins and their own evidence shows you were only there for 24minutes.

Tell them to take you to court.