Trustee has cleared account

[withholdcontact]

Hi I was wondering if anyone could help, my ex husband and I are joint trustees on a Halifax save4it account set up for our daughter when she was born in 2008. The account had nearly £10,000 in it. Yesterday by chance we learned that over the space of a year her father has transferred nearly all of the money to himself. Would this be considered fraud? He has not been spending the money on our daughter.

As I have explained before that wording isn’t necessarily particularly helpful to Halifax because there are other regulatory requirements that may override them. The issue of Halifax’s liability may well depend on how the vulnerable customer guidance in relation to the obligation to treat customers fairly Principle 6) might be applied.

It is highly likely the account was a bare trust so the ex will be required to account for the money.

The OP should get legal advice and also escalate a complaint within the Halifax.

OP
There has been a fair bit of misunderstanding on this thread. Banking and bank accounts don’t always operate legally in the way people think.

(as mentioned before I am a financial services lawyer)

You have 2 routes of action to take in parallel in my view:
1 Get some specific legal advice a potential breach of trustee duties by your ex; and

2 Escalate a complaint against Halifax for failing to raise concerns about a relatively sudden change in the operation of the account of a minor (a potentially vulnerable customer) with an unusual pattern of withdrawals that substantially depleted the account. You could also raise a question around the maximum balance allowed in the account.

You are allowed to withdraw it, but that doesn't make it your money. It is still your child's money, so when you withdraw it you hold it on trust for them. If you mix it with your own money, or buy things for yourself, you are in breach of your trustees duties. The intention in creating that bank account/pot of money was for savings for OP's daughter so she has money to spend as she wishes when she reaches a certain age, so if he used it for anything else he needs to repay the money. Plenty of lawyers would assist the OP in recovering this, but that would cost money so she would do better to write him a letter as a starting point.

I mean, how do the bank prove it wasn’t used for his daughter in this case (presuming they had regular contact before now)

if it was one huge withdrawal sure, but in dribs and drabs he could say it was for food/petrol/clothes/new bedding/trips out. Like there’s a whole plethora of things he could say the cash was used for. If he took it out in cash it’s not traceable where he spent it really is it? If he’s the type to take his daughters money he’s probably also the type to make up shit

Also he may have to repay the money, but depending on his income (maybe not much if he’s nicking money off his kid, first thing I thought was gambling problem) then he will only be made to pay it back in a way he can afford that leaves him enough to live on. Ie as little as 30-50 a week for years and years. Depending on whether there are court costs and lawyers fees, which require a lot upfront, and how much they are, depends whether op can afford to do it. It’s ridiculous I know.

They won't. This is a civil matter.

The bank doesn't need to prove anything, it's the OP who would be bringing the claim. All she has to do is show he withdrew the money. He then has to account for it

You’ve had some good information and advice on this thread from @ChazsBrilliantAttitudeand @prh47bridge. And (as is always the case on threads involving anything legal) some absolute nonsense from people pitching in without understanding the situation. Your ex has breached his duty towards your daughter and she will have a civil claim against him. The bank might also have failed in its duties, but this needs further investigation.

This. With bells on!

@withholdcontact not sure if you noticed this response….?

Hi all, I have been reading all of the wonderful, quality advice given and words cannot express how grateful I am that people are taking time out of their lives to assist with this awful situation. I am planning on following the two routes of action given by @ChazsBrilliantAttitude

I also wanted to provide an update that daughter has had a text message from her father as follows (I have cut out the unimportant parts but kept the awful grammar)

'You're getting it back this year guaranteed... You wasn't meant to have access to it until you was 18. I had planned to put it back way before then. I will now put it back this year for sure. I didn't even know that you knew about it. I never used it to splash out on nonsense things or holidays or clothes etc. I used it to help me cover my rent when I was out of work for a couple of months & to help me pay the extra bills that XXX did not help me out with. I also was struggling to pay the child maintenance and the storage facility I'm storing my stuff in. I have been living off one meal a day and stopped playing football just to save money to take you guys out when you come over & get you guys decent gifts on birthdays and Christmas. I'm even downsizing my storage facility by getting rid of my bed & chair & maybe my tv's. None of this things were purchased with your money by the way. Not even the car. You will have the money back into your account this year I swear...I did not steal from you. I borrowed from you because I have always planned on putting it back. Even if somehow I couldn't pay it back, selling my car would recuperate all of the money back...'

That’s absolutely shocking on her Dad’s part. His rent isn’t your daughter’s responsibility! I frankly doubt it was for that if he was taking out regular different amounts. Can’t believe he’s trying to make excuses and didn’t even bloody apologise. Taking money without asking is stealing, not borrowing!

IANAL and am very happy to be corrected by those who are, but does his message not act as confirmation from him that he has not used her money for her, but in fact for himself? If so, make sure you keep hold of that message @withholdcontact

Yes, it does.

A written confession. Good.

Make sure she keeps that text. He’s basically confessed in writing to stealing her money.

What a vile man! He basically made his daughter pay her own child support!!

No advice at all, sadly, just anger on her/your behalf!

The last sentence gives him away - why does he have a car worth over 10 grand if he has taken 10k of his daughters money? Doesn't really fit with the "one meal a day" picture painted does it?

OP is he on universal credit?

/min wage

Suggest to your daughter that she charges him interest far above inflation 🔥

8% is the court interest rate. So any claim should say plus interest.

I'm one of two trustees of a fund. Either of us can withdraw money without authorisation from the other as that was how it was set up.

No not on universal credit or min wage

I see. He will definitely have to pay it back but depending on income it may be in installments. If he’s got a decent salary hopefully the installments will be a decent amount. Shocked in how brazen he was about spending it on his own stuff and not even apologising.