Trustee has cleared account

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Hi I was wondering if anyone could help, my ex husband and I are joint trustees on a Halifax save4it account set up for our daughter when she was born in 2008. The account had nearly £10,000 in it. Yesterday by chance we learned that over the space of a year her father has transferred nearly all of the money to himself. Would this be considered fraud? He has not been spending the money on our daughter.

@simsbustinoutmimiI did read it and that’s why I said they may get him on a technicality.
no need to be Lairy

It doesn’t matter what they write because the Regulator (the Financial Conduct Authority) has introduced specific guidance on treatment of vulnerable customers under the duty to treat customers fairly (Principle 6). An unusual pattern of withdrawals (if it was unusual) on a child’s account probably should have triggered some sort of monitoring or review. The Halifax can’t contract out of it’s regulatory obligations so they may not be required to challenge every transaction but if the pattern was unusual then it should have triggered some sort of review or investigation.

I will say, if daughter is a 08 baby, does that not mean she’s seventeen already?

usually these accounts are automatically passed over to the child in the form of a regular savings account when child turns sixteen. How was it not noticed before now that the father had helped himself to the money?

There’s still 6 months left of 2025. If she was born between 01/01/08 and 03/07/08, she will be 17.

however if she was born between 04/07/08 and 31/12/08, she will still be 16.

hth

It’s not like a regular withdrawal though, you can’t access these accounts via online banking. You have to go into branch (often with the bank book) and sign a bunch of forms. There is a lot of security around them. Presumably if the father had been behaving suspiciously it would’ve raised an alarm and the other parent would’ve been rung.

OP doesn’t say whether it was one big withdrawal or lots of little ones.

Yes I know. I should’ve written it differently, what I mean is the account should’ve been passed to her when she turned sixteen. If she’s a 08 baby she’s been sixteen for some time already.

You also can’t withdraw using an ATM with these child savings accounts.

It doesn’t have to be a big withdrawal, it just has to be a noticeable change in how the account operated. If you have an account that has 5 deposits a year and no withdrawals for 10 years and then 8 or 10 or 12 withdrawals over the course of 12-15 months that remove £10k that should trigger some sort of review process.

The key thing is how the account was operated previously. Was this a change from the usual pattern.

I wish it did. It should, but if the withdrawals aren’t made in person it may not.

banking protocol usually only kicks in when someone tries to make a large cash withdrawal over the counter. If they transfer online, or via the self service desks it is unlikely unless someone reviews the account. Which they don’t.

regular withdrawals of 10k up to 60k went unnoticed. I did take it to the ombudsman who agreed with the bank that it wasn’t their responsibility, and there was no reason an alert would be raised.

Yeah I’m actually not sure with OP’s account whether withdrawals had to be made in person, maybe they can come back and clarify.

The vulnerable customers guidance is only a few years old so that has put more pressure on the banks.

It’s very likely to have been a bare trust , is was definitely a trust. This is a different account but pages 2 and 3 may be helpful in every ownership it a bare trust. https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-3900908.pdf
The Halifax save4it terms were your daughter had access at 16
Save4it is a pocket-money savings account designeo especially for children up to 16.
Great rate of 4.80% AER/gross p.a.
Open an account from as little as £1
Maximum balance of £5,000
Variable interest paid annually on the day of your choice
Free calculator, coin bank, save4it card (to open the coin bank) and a special passbook wallet
Name the account whatever you want (for example:
'Sarah's account' or 'First bike account')
No limit on the number of withdrawals
Adults can open an account in trust for a child under seven or in the child's name if they are seven or over

Again, not in our case. Overnight clear change in spending habits, from normal spending to none, just large transfers to one person.

personally I would like to see banks bring in a product for vulnerable people where accounts are regularly reviewed. And also regular reviews of any accounts with a third party authority where someone other than the account holder can make withdrawals.

This happened last year.

I would be raising this with the FCA because the process clearly failed you which is awful.

I did. Went to the ombudsman.

I had the exact same account as a child (save4it) and either of my parents could access it with my passbook. A bare trust can’t be accessed by the trustees.

Not the ombudsman, I would raise your concerns with the regulator ie the Financial Conduct Authority that the vulnerable customer guidance is not working in practice.

Yes a bare trust can be accessed by the trustees but they can’t use the assets for their benefit.

Ok thank you I will look at that.

it’s interesting, because a couple of times my mum made withdrawals (I wanted a new set of outfits for the school residential and another time my sister needed similar for her trip lol) they had her show ID and sign the paper and that was it. There was no word of oh it needs to be used for your daughter’s benefit.

how would they prove the dad hadn’t spent it on his daughter if it was withdrawn so long ago?

I would try The Police

As far as I can see its theft

If they do act on it the consequences for him wont be nice

Yes it can, my daughter had the same nationwide account I linked to. Your account was opened when you were seven or older so was not a bare trust. EDIT I read “either” as “neither”, so I have no idea if you were 7 or younger. Regardless that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a bare trust I as explained below.
A bare trust can be accessed by the trustees I accessed her account as the signatory to withdraw funds on her behalf.
"If the account is opened by an adult, the adult will be acting on behalf of the child (as a 'bare trustee'). Although the account is in the name of the adult, the money in the account is held for and belongs to the child. As a 'bare trustee, the adult will have duties and obligations to the child (for example, the adult will need to act in the best interests of the child)"

OP is with Halifax not nationwide

Yes I am aware of that, I am unsure of your point though? A bare trust is a bare trust , it doesn’t matter what building society it is.