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Attempt to change existing (multiple years long) informal agreement!

99 replies

CrazyPeopleWow · 02/05/2025 10:06

Hello,

Wondering peoples experiences to see if it can relate. Hoping it can!

Myself and ex-partner share an 11 year old, separated since DC was approx 1 year old. We've had an informal agreement in place ever since. Ex-partner is attempting to change informal agreement, for reasons that are not safeguarding and already confirmed by ex-partner (in writing) aren't for safeguarding reasons.

The informal agreement works on alternating weeks, so to give an idea, this is how it looks outside of booked holidays, this is on a weekly regular basis:

Week 1 - ex-partner has DC Monday evenings to Friday mornings drop-off to school. DC is then with myself school pickup Fridays until Monday dinner/tea time.

Week 2 - ex-partner has DC Monday evenings to Saturday mid-afternoon. DC is then with myself from Saturday mid-afternoons until Monday dinner/tea time.

This is all they've ever known and been accustomed to. DC has siblings on both sides of the family. Child maintenance has never been missed and is calculated by the CMS with DirectPay. Holidays have always been a contentious issue, asking for dates so we can book things etc as we like to plan things way in advance, DC has had holidays both abroad and UK based with myself regularly for the past 10 years. Christmas day/Boxing day/New Years eve has been alternated each year. DC has recently missed a weekend break due to ex-partner going back on an agreement (via messages) where we swapped a day each.

We live approx 1 hour/46 miles away and myself does 95% of the drop-offs and pickups. I have always done this and have no problem doing it where safe to do so for the majority of the time.

Ex-partner is now attempting to reduce this existing agreement to the following:

Every week - ex-partner has DC Sunday early evenings to Saturday mid-afternoon. Myself to then have Saturday mid-afternoon to Sunday early evenings. Ex-partner has also attempted to "allow" approx 30% of school holidays to myself, whilst having the remaining 70%. Obviously I have not agreed to this, as I feel it doesn't feel it massively reduces adequate time for DC with myself and his siblings here and our wider family whom have built up strong relationships with DC.

Ex-partner has now stopped all physical contact, only "allowing" phone contact which they are "recording and supervising" and is refusing to allow DC to continue formalities unless we agree to new changes ex-partner has attempted to enforce. This is their justification for doing the above. They have also stated as DC is starting secondary school in September, that this serves best for DC. My point is that routine should be upheld, that is all they have ever been used to. It has never been an issue before now for such a long time.

As you would expect, we have applied for a formalized CAO due to all of the above, following legal advice and been told we have MIAM exemption. Ex-partner is now saying we must go to mediation and pay for all costs, which legals have told us is not the case.

Obviously we are very concerned at whats happening, DC has and is currently missing a lot of major scheduled events, not being able to bond with siblings DC has grown up with. Courts aren't very quick we know that but feel like we have no other choice! DC has also expressed to school they wish to see both parents and keep things as they are.

Based on the above, does anybody have any experience what courts may formalize? What could happen next etc?

Appreciate any advice!

OP posts:
CrazyPeopleWow · 04/05/2025 23:25

kiwiane · 04/05/2025 17:31

Why not try EOW and you travel mid week to take the child out? It’s not fair for you to have every weekend and you having another child shouldn’t mean their other parent can’t see them at the weekend.

Hey, listen I’m not saying it’s fair. Also EOW is almost split 50/50 as it is. 10 years ago I never chose for this arrangement to be given the way it has. But I accepted it thinking that was the best thing to do.

I’ve never said to ex-partner demanding, or just deciding that the arrangement has now changed. Not anywhere have I been unreasonable either, but what I’m telling people here is I’ve been given a new arrangement form ex-partner without any consultation with me, no discussion or anything and told “sign this agreement or you don’t see it speak to your child”.

How am I supposed to reason or discuss with a person who has this mindset?

OP posts:
SinkToTheBottomWithYou · 04/05/2025 23:42

Could you do 50/50? One week at each house and equal split of the holidays? Not sure it is in the best interest of a secondary school age child though.
Second best would then be EOW + Monday evening + half the holidays.
But you can’t have more ‘fun’ time (weekends, holidays) because you have less weekdays, that would be unfair.

And the transition to secondary is actually a pretty good reason to revisit the agreement. You can’t insist it stays the same and you have 3/4 of the weekend time.

CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 00:36

SinkToTheBottomWithYou · 04/05/2025 23:42

Could you do 50/50? One week at each house and equal split of the holidays? Not sure it is in the best interest of a secondary school age child though.
Second best would then be EOW + Monday evening + half the holidays.
But you can’t have more ‘fun’ time (weekends, holidays) because you have less weekdays, that would be unfair.

And the transition to secondary is actually a pretty good reason to revisit the agreement. You can’t insist it stays the same and you have 3/4 of the weekend time.

Do you know what, if ex-partner had approached it and said transition to secondary school need to revisit the agreement then none of this would ever have happened. Instead what they’ve done is used this reason and then in their own parenting plan they’ve made up decided to reduce the time I have with DC and not offer it anywhere else. They doubled down on this by only offering 20% of the school holidays.

I haven’t insisted it stays the same but surely isn’t it irresponsible to unilaterally change DC weekly routine of 10 years before agreeing with the other parent?

What about split the school
holidays 50/50, agree to drop DC back Sunday evenings each week, which reduces from 5/14 nights to 3/14 nights?

Issue is DC has lots of social, regular and team//sports activities they do now so if ex-partner decides to insist on change then DC will not be able to do them. Would that be fair on them?

OP posts:
CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 00:39

SinkToTheBottomWithYou · 04/05/2025 23:42

Could you do 50/50? One week at each house and equal split of the holidays? Not sure it is in the best interest of a secondary school age child though.
Second best would then be EOW + Monday evening + half the holidays.
But you can’t have more ‘fun’ time (weekends, holidays) because you have less weekdays, that would be unfair.

And the transition to secondary is actually a pretty good reason to revisit the agreement. You can’t insist it stays the same and you have 3/4 of the weekend time.

Oh and by the way, they have stopped all contact, not just regular physical contact but also phone/message contact DC has with me and their siblings until we agree to their terms.

So I’m sure you can understand why we are now very hesitant to believe anything they say. They haven’t put DC thoughts as best interests here. Changing an agreement can take some time but shouldn’t uproot the current existing one whilst it’s discussed, should it?

OP posts:
IchiNiSanShiGo · 05/05/2025 04:17

I don’t think we’re getting the full story from you OP. Something about the way you write is really off here. Your replies are really quite condescending to those who don’t agree with you, and why are you so cagey about whether your ex partner is mum or dad? You were really defensive upthread when someone suggested you’re the dad, and you don’t seem to be listening to any advice people are giving you.

Springtime97 · 05/05/2025 07:07

At 11 a lot will depend on what your son wants. If you go to court and what you say is different, they will order a section 7 report by Cafcass to get his ‘wishes and feelings’.

Whilst courts do like the status quo they focus on the best interests of the child and in my experience consider fairness. I don’t think they would consider one parent having all the weekend time as fair.

Whilst I wouldn’t say there is a standard, I would say half the holidays and eow is fairly common. If you have problems with the hols might be worth formalising holiday altho it’s unlikely they will set a schedule and you’ll still be expected to work together to organise.

SkankingWombat · 05/05/2025 08:58

I think you need to put yourselves into the shoes of an 11 year old. Routines and schedules change with every life stage, and going to Secondary sees big changes in all areas of their lives as it also coincides with social development and body clock changes; just because it has worked for the last 10 years does not mean it is fit for purpose now. At 11, would you really want to be travelling an hour each way every weekend away from where your friends are? This may well be a difficult parent attempting to alienate your DC, but equally they may be trying to protect a DC who is unhappy and pushing back against the contact from a parent who refuses change and is using guilt-inducing tactics with DC (I was the DC in the latter situation).
I have a nearly-11yo who would hate your current arrangement, although it could have been made to work when she was younger - she now wants to see friends, do her sport (she trains 5 days over the week and often competes at weekends), and vegetate with any remaining time at the weekend. Being an hour away at weekends and with a sibling to consider too means it is unlikely you could facilitate much weekend contact with her friends, and the nature of contact time and needing to 'make up for lost time in the week' would mean less time chilling out in her own way and more time having to be 'on' as an active part of household #2. I was a child with EOW with a parent an hour's drive away, and it was fine during Primary but I hated it from my tweens for the reasons above, plus having to haul homework back and forth. My F always made me feel incredibly guilty for wanting to spend my weekends in my home area, which I really resented. Once I was a teen with more agency, I rarely went on 'his' weekends. He did realise he needed to change his approach in the end, and would meet me for lunch or dinner near my home or in the city instead, and once I was old enough he helped me to pass my driving test and get a car so I could visit on a more ad hoc basis and still get back for my social stuff.

You say you haven't discussed arrangements and them changing with DC, yet also say his school have said he wants them to remain as they are - why have school asked him this question, and how do you know what DCs response was? It sounds like there is much more to this part, as it isn't something that would just come up in conversation as a matter of course (either school & DC or school & parent). I suspect DC is actually very aware and is worried about disappointing parents.

CoffeeCup14 · 05/05/2025 10:41

SkankingWombat · 05/05/2025 08:58

I think you need to put yourselves into the shoes of an 11 year old. Routines and schedules change with every life stage, and going to Secondary sees big changes in all areas of their lives as it also coincides with social development and body clock changes; just because it has worked for the last 10 years does not mean it is fit for purpose now. At 11, would you really want to be travelling an hour each way every weekend away from where your friends are? This may well be a difficult parent attempting to alienate your DC, but equally they may be trying to protect a DC who is unhappy and pushing back against the contact from a parent who refuses change and is using guilt-inducing tactics with DC (I was the DC in the latter situation).
I have a nearly-11yo who would hate your current arrangement, although it could have been made to work when she was younger - she now wants to see friends, do her sport (she trains 5 days over the week and often competes at weekends), and vegetate with any remaining time at the weekend. Being an hour away at weekends and with a sibling to consider too means it is unlikely you could facilitate much weekend contact with her friends, and the nature of contact time and needing to 'make up for lost time in the week' would mean less time chilling out in her own way and more time having to be 'on' as an active part of household #2. I was a child with EOW with a parent an hour's drive away, and it was fine during Primary but I hated it from my tweens for the reasons above, plus having to haul homework back and forth. My F always made me feel incredibly guilty for wanting to spend my weekends in my home area, which I really resented. Once I was a teen with more agency, I rarely went on 'his' weekends. He did realise he needed to change his approach in the end, and would meet me for lunch or dinner near my home or in the city instead, and once I was old enough he helped me to pass my driving test and get a car so I could visit on a more ad hoc basis and still get back for my social stuff.

You say you haven't discussed arrangements and them changing with DC, yet also say his school have said he wants them to remain as they are - why have school asked him this question, and how do you know what DCs response was? It sounds like there is much more to this part, as it isn't something that would just come up in conversation as a matter of course (either school & DC or school & parent). I suspect DC is actually very aware and is worried about disappointing parents.

I wonder whether non-resident parents have an unrealistic idea of what life is like in the 'resident' home. Like you say, there's probably more of an attempt to 'make up for lost time', and expectation of being 'on' more and more 'present' and probably more intentionality at the non-resident home. I also wonder whether those primary school patterns of behaviour are maintained longer. If this is happening at the non-resident parent's home, they may assume it's also happening at the resident parent's home. When the reality may be that the child is in their room or out a lot more, apart from when the child needs something - physically, emotionally or financially.

I don't think my house is particularly typical (two neurodiverse teenagers, so their needs and development is atypical) but I have been thinking about the changes in my relationship with both of them over the past few years, and it's very very different now. I don't think their dad would necessarily see that, or realise that he's not seeing it.

Bigearringsbigsmile · 05/05/2025 10:49

I would hate it if I did all the drudgey weekday shit- homework, school run, laundry, tea every night, extra curricular activities, and the other parent got every single weekend to do all the nice stuff!

CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 13:08

IchiNiSanShiGo · 05/05/2025 04:17

I don’t think we’re getting the full story from you OP. Something about the way you write is really off here. Your replies are really quite condescending to those who don’t agree with you, and why are you so cagey about whether your ex partner is mum or dad? You were really defensive upthread when someone suggested you’re the dad, and you don’t seem to be listening to any advice people are giving you.

I’m sorry it comes across that way. I was very hesitant even putting it out there because it doesn’t always come across in the way you’d like it to.

I guess it’s just emotion because of being stopped from seeing your DC, it’s a pain I’d wish on nobody to be honest.

I am genuinely open to ideas, I think I’ve replied to a few people when they’ve suggested things, I’m just at a loss how it’s even reasonable for ex-partner to just stop contact in all entireties including contact DC siblings has which has also been completely blocked off from, just because I don’t agree with a plan they’ve written up themselves with no legal basis and not once discussed with me about.

Can you let me know a piece of advice someone has given me that I’ve not listened to? I’m confused.

OP posts:
CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 13:13

Springtime97 · 05/05/2025 07:07

At 11 a lot will depend on what your son wants. If you go to court and what you say is different, they will order a section 7 report by Cafcass to get his ‘wishes and feelings’.

Whilst courts do like the status quo they focus on the best interests of the child and in my experience consider fairness. I don’t think they would consider one parent having all the weekend time as fair.

Whilst I wouldn’t say there is a standard, I would say half the holidays and eow is fairly common. If you have problems with the hols might be worth formalising holiday altho it’s unlikely they will set a schedule and you’ll still be expected to work together to organise.

Thanks for this input. It’s already been documented by a 3rd party independent that DC wishes to see both parents.

I understand what you’re saying and that’s fine. I guess the issue I have is the way ex-partner has gone about it, because stopping a parent time with DC is extremely damaging to them when they’ve been used to that time and routine for a decade.

As for the holidays, this has always been an issue because ex-partner agrees to dates and then goes back on their word. All of this type of situation is documented. As you can imagine it’s extremely problematic when this happens, we like to book things way in advance for holidays etc and then that happens. For example, DC missed a holiday recently due to ex-partner going back on their word even though we had agreement in writing, they still withheld DC, which upset DC heavily as you can imagine. Be interesting therefore to see how a court would take this view and formalise something so this doesn’t happen again.

OP posts:
CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 13:24

SkankingWombat · 05/05/2025 08:58

I think you need to put yourselves into the shoes of an 11 year old. Routines and schedules change with every life stage, and going to Secondary sees big changes in all areas of their lives as it also coincides with social development and body clock changes; just because it has worked for the last 10 years does not mean it is fit for purpose now. At 11, would you really want to be travelling an hour each way every weekend away from where your friends are? This may well be a difficult parent attempting to alienate your DC, but equally they may be trying to protect a DC who is unhappy and pushing back against the contact from a parent who refuses change and is using guilt-inducing tactics with DC (I was the DC in the latter situation).
I have a nearly-11yo who would hate your current arrangement, although it could have been made to work when she was younger - she now wants to see friends, do her sport (she trains 5 days over the week and often competes at weekends), and vegetate with any remaining time at the weekend. Being an hour away at weekends and with a sibling to consider too means it is unlikely you could facilitate much weekend contact with her friends, and the nature of contact time and needing to 'make up for lost time in the week' would mean less time chilling out in her own way and more time having to be 'on' as an active part of household #2. I was a child with EOW with a parent an hour's drive away, and it was fine during Primary but I hated it from my tweens for the reasons above, plus having to haul homework back and forth. My F always made me feel incredibly guilty for wanting to spend my weekends in my home area, which I really resented. Once I was a teen with more agency, I rarely went on 'his' weekends. He did realise he needed to change his approach in the end, and would meet me for lunch or dinner near my home or in the city instead, and once I was old enough he helped me to pass my driving test and get a car so I could visit on a more ad hoc basis and still get back for my social stuff.

You say you haven't discussed arrangements and them changing with DC, yet also say his school have said he wants them to remain as they are - why have school asked him this question, and how do you know what DCs response was? It sounds like there is much more to this part, as it isn't something that would just come up in conversation as a matter of course (either school & DC or school & parent). I suspect DC is actually very aware and is worried about disappointing parents.

Absolutely would want what’s best for DC, DC is in sports team here and has been doing this for several years too, so has also built friendships here so I completely understand your points on that.

Because of the contact being stopped, I was obviously very concerned DC would be emotional so I spoke to the school just in case they saw DC behaviour change due to this and they spoke to DC about lots of things, they obviously couldn’t say in detail what that was however they did say they have no safeguarding concerns at all and that DC has expressed a wish to keep seeing both parents. So the only assumption I can make is DC has told school that they aren’t able to see me right now which must obviously bother DC.

Based on what you are saying, it sounds like you think because DC is approaching a teenager then it must change? I’m very curious on this because DC has 2 siblings here whom has a very strong bond with and if that was to happen, they wouldn’t see DC hardly at all? Maybe I’m not understanding, but just to say really that DC has 2 active homes with lots of social activities, both with friends and siblings.

I think your suggestion of meeting DC closer is also absolutely fine, makes sense too and has always been welcome but ex-partner has consistently said no to this when requested (again this is all evidenced).

OP posts:
CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 13:27

CoffeeCup14 · 05/05/2025 10:41

I wonder whether non-resident parents have an unrealistic idea of what life is like in the 'resident' home. Like you say, there's probably more of an attempt to 'make up for lost time', and expectation of being 'on' more and more 'present' and probably more intentionality at the non-resident home. I also wonder whether those primary school patterns of behaviour are maintained longer. If this is happening at the non-resident parent's home, they may assume it's also happening at the resident parent's home. When the reality may be that the child is in their room or out a lot more, apart from when the child needs something - physically, emotionally or financially.

I don't think my house is particularly typical (two neurodiverse teenagers, so their needs and development is atypical) but I have been thinking about the changes in my relationship with both of them over the past few years, and it's very very different now. I don't think their dad would necessarily see that, or realise that he's not seeing it.

Just to give you more context, I am very aware of being a resident parent. I have other children at home, one who is a tween and another who is younger, so I know all about being a resident parent and what comes with it. I also have a step-DC who sees their other parents consistently and they are 45 minutes drive away. My partner and their ex make it work for step-DC who is older than my DC I am talking about here.

What are your thoughts on being stopped all contact because of not agreeing with ex-partner?

OP posts:
CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 13:30

Bigearringsbigsmile · 05/05/2025 10:49

I would hate it if I did all the drudgey weekday shit- homework, school run, laundry, tea every night, extra curricular activities, and the other parent got every single weekend to do all the nice stuff!

Oh tell me about it! I do this as well during the week for our children here! But it isn’t every single weekend, on alternate weekends ex-partner has split weekends as well as all of that week.

I run around constantly after our children here, that’s what I signed up for!

OP posts:
Espressosummer · 05/05/2025 13:31

CrazyPeopleWow · 04/05/2025 15:38

Thanks for your very helpful advice.

In terms of what you have said there, that wasn’t what was asked for at the very beginning, it was what ex-partner “decided” would happen and therefore I agreed for DC sake and that’s now been the situation for 10 years. Is it still unfair?

All contact has been completely cut off for DC and me and family and siblings, is that fair?

For the first 5 years of your child's life they won't have been in school Monday to Friday so I can see why this routine seemed fair at the start. But that doesn't mean it remains fair.

How your ex has gone about this is clearly wrong, it is not okay to completely cut a child's contact with their parent unless for safeguarding reasons.

As for the rest, you say you had to move due to abuse. But if your ex was abusive why did you leave your child there? Why did you move so far away and not fight for at least 50/50 care?

Another of your posts seems to suggest you think you are the better parent and should get more time with the child just because you have the money to take them away regularly. Having more money doesn't make you a better parent. Especially when you've been enabled to work more by your ex doing all the childcare during the week.

CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 14:25

Espressosummer · 05/05/2025 13:31

For the first 5 years of your child's life they won't have been in school Monday to Friday so I can see why this routine seemed fair at the start. But that doesn't mean it remains fair.

How your ex has gone about this is clearly wrong, it is not okay to completely cut a child's contact with their parent unless for safeguarding reasons.

As for the rest, you say you had to move due to abuse. But if your ex was abusive why did you leave your child there? Why did you move so far away and not fight for at least 50/50 care?

Another of your posts seems to suggest you think you are the better parent and should get more time with the child just because you have the money to take them away regularly. Having more money doesn't make you a better parent. Especially when you've been enabled to work more by your ex doing all the childcare during the week.

Hi,

Thanks for your support regarding the stopping contact. My head falls off when I hear people (on other forums) support any parent doing that which isn’t safeguarding.

Well yes in a normal world I’d agree first 5 years if their life you’d think that wouldn’t you, but ex-partner hasn’t wanted that for 10 years. It has been brought up from time to time in the past but they simply didn’t want it, but now all of a sudden do. I’ve even suggested for secondary school (in the past) that I’d be happy to swap the arrangements so that ex-partner could have a lot of the weekends etc and I’d do the “mundane” tasks. But they didn’t want to do this either.

Abusive to me yes, but not abusive to DC, and trying to put DC first I felt it was in their best interests to be able to see both parents which clearly has been the right thing to do as it’s worked fine for the last 10 years except holiday issues from time to time. I am fighting for 50/50 now, my legal advice suggests this is now very common and I’m more than willing to make that work with the support of my family.

I’m really sorry you think that I have given you the impression of being the better parent, but where have I said having more money makes me the better parent? I spend all my possible time with DC, money isn’t needed for that, we’ve done this for 10 years consistently. I was worried posting on the forums because of being judged like this. I have more than willing offered thousands of times to do weekly things in various ways, all have been rejected, maybe that’s a controlling thing from ex.

OP posts:
CoffeeCup14 · 05/05/2025 15:47

CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 13:27

Just to give you more context, I am very aware of being a resident parent. I have other children at home, one who is a tween and another who is younger, so I know all about being a resident parent and what comes with it. I also have a step-DC who sees their other parents consistently and they are 45 minutes drive away. My partner and their ex make it work for step-DC who is older than my DC I am talking about here.

What are your thoughts on being stopped all contact because of not agreeing with ex-partner?

My post was more a response to SkankingWombat than a direct comment on your situation. I'm struggling to really understand why you've posted, because when anyone disagrees with you or offers a different perspective, you say that their comment doesn't apply to your situation, or you already know that.

And then you pick up on anything anyone says which even slightly supports your point of view. It feels like you are looking for validation of your views rather than wanting actual opinions.

What are my views on 'being stopped all contact because of not agreeing with ex-partner'? Well, obviously I don't think one parent should stop all contact because the other doesn't agree with them, or as a way to force a new agreement. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with you. So the question feels more like fishing than a genuine question.

Espressosummer · 05/05/2025 16:25

CrazyPeopleWow · 05/05/2025 14:25

Hi,

Thanks for your support regarding the stopping contact. My head falls off when I hear people (on other forums) support any parent doing that which isn’t safeguarding.

Well yes in a normal world I’d agree first 5 years if their life you’d think that wouldn’t you, but ex-partner hasn’t wanted that for 10 years. It has been brought up from time to time in the past but they simply didn’t want it, but now all of a sudden do. I’ve even suggested for secondary school (in the past) that I’d be happy to swap the arrangements so that ex-partner could have a lot of the weekends etc and I’d do the “mundane” tasks. But they didn’t want to do this either.

Abusive to me yes, but not abusive to DC, and trying to put DC first I felt it was in their best interests to be able to see both parents which clearly has been the right thing to do as it’s worked fine for the last 10 years except holiday issues from time to time. I am fighting for 50/50 now, my legal advice suggests this is now very common and I’m more than willing to make that work with the support of my family.

I’m really sorry you think that I have given you the impression of being the better parent, but where have I said having more money makes me the better parent? I spend all my possible time with DC, money isn’t needed for that, we’ve done this for 10 years consistently. I was worried posting on the forums because of being judged like this. I have more than willing offered thousands of times to do weekly things in various ways, all have been rejected, maybe that’s a controlling thing from ex.

You havent given me the impression you are the better parent, rather the impression you think you are the better parent (and you think this because you have money). This is what you said in a previous post: We have a track record of providing DC opportunities to visit different places, countries, holidays, lifetime memories and experiences, ex-partner does this few and far between.

It is clear you think you are better just because you can take the child abroad regularly.

Oh, and my support isn't for you, it's for your child. Honestly, the more you post the more disingenuous you seem. If you cared that much for your child you wouldn't have moved an hour away, you wouldn't have left your child with someone you consider abusive and you would have fought for residency or at least 50/50 years ago.

Honestorlietothem · 06/05/2025 18:09

OP I hear you, I have been unilaterally stopped since December,

my understanding of this post is as follows:

the OP and ex separated and share a child
DV is very complex and post separation abuse is a thing. Court is also just luck of the draw a lot of the time due to so many variables inc the threshold of balance of probabilities - very easy to be DARVO’d and manipulated and have the script flipped.

it seems that there’s always been a power imbalance since the split given the ex is the RP and in the absence of a formal court order that can be enforced, the OP likely had to tread eggshells and pick their battles knowing that ex had the control to go nuclear, as they have now.

i am not hearing OP making demands, expectations and so on. I am hearing that RP is ‘allowing’ the pattern of contact at their own discretion and OP is taking whatever contact there is on offer and making it work.

OP has repetitively said that RP is making the calls in weekend time spent - nothing I am reading puts OP in the decision making seat as the final say.

it reads that OP will bend over backwards and be accommodating and flexible irrespective of what RP feels should change, BUT

RP has unilaterally made a fresh plan without having a grown up co parenting discussion about how that should look like with input from both on how they can both together facilitate the DC evolving needs.

they are being held to ransom by RP, both of them putting the agony of being helpless, grief, fear and despair at the unfolding events, first cutting contact and now cutting indirect contact.

OP can’t be candid in age appropriate narrative to DC right now, because that will impact DC more so than it is now.

i am hearing that there’s been an informal but solid pattern that had generally worked fine up until the RP decided to upend it and sanction OP via weaponising the DC

DV comes in many shapes and forms, the law most certainly hasn’t caught up with the many coercively controlling methods parents use to one another directly involving children.

A seismic gap in understanding the nuances and dynamics of parents who use children as weapons amongst all of us inc professionals is gaping wide

it’s fair to say unless you’ve been into a family court with a parent like this with a background or current dv, whereby it’s secret courts and oftentimes decisions made upon who can convince a professional more so than evidence / not always, but far too many times that ought to never even be a once.d

before I experienced what I have done, and am experiencing, I too would have said ‘there must be more to this’ and have been utterly floored and terrified that the system and its clear framework on how these decisions are to be considered and made aren’t always followed, due diligence isn’t always followed and confirmation bias can run wild.

Because it’s in secret, you cannot have the collective material reality of shared experiences and family court / social services transparency that would allow for posters who are holding reservations in the facts of this matter, to take what OP is saying at their word.

what is the point in coming to a forum and not being honest and clear on what the fundamental facts are if you’re seeking support? It’s anonymous?

So if you’re the fuck up or the cause of the issues then you’re saying so and advice will be tailored to you from that vantage? Or maybe it’s my idealist autism brain!

im waffling, sorry

RP is wishing to change contact but isn’t working with OP to collaborate on how this is going to look going forward.

i think, based on what I would be wanting to know if I was brave enough to tell my story in full, Is exactly what OP is saying / I am picking up that OP is in a state of high anxiety, despair, fear, confusion and as many of us have been in imbalanced, toxic, controlling and abusive relationships, worse so when it’s post separation, our perspectives on our own perceptions, the experiences of the advice and what we believe will happen when disclosing abuse and the reality of speaking out doesn’t seem to matter a jot, the expectations meeting reality can really make you feel gaslit.

OP, if I wasn’t experiencing the same as you, and I was reading this fresh without my own gaslit mind, I’d take a guess that vast majority of people not in our boat would say that of course this is insane, damaging and a court and a Cafcass officer would absolutely come down on the RP like a tonne of bricks!

That’s what I want to hear. I want to hear that stopping contact for no good reason, never allowing indirect calls, banning me from being in the same room as the family zoom on Xmas day, erased entirely but by but and putting every single solution and compromise forward to be met with a stone wall, inc any joint therapy, mediation and literally exhausting absolutely every single option there is before going back to court - I want to hear as I imagine you do, that you’re doing the right things in the boundaries of what you’ve been given

and that in and of itself makes the despair even more extreme because if you were making a mistake, had a tangible ‘reason’ that you could work on, get help for or whatever, that’s a goal for change but when you’re literally just taking every precious moment your given and really having to be a good OP as without any notice or whatever THIS can happen, you want to feel like what you are experiencing is real, valid, not your fault and more importantly what the hell you can do

and what powers the court has in terms of giving both of you the power not to pull the rug out from each other on a whim with your DC toppling right off it.

in hindsight, way back then, you could have considered something called a ‘deed of consent’ I believe it is?

So you do mediation, agree on a plan and even a date to revisit etc, then the judge just stamps it, don’t even have to go to court.

Even the best co parenting relationships can benefit from knowing that bottom line is, they have legal protection from unfettered point scoring should things break down, protecting DC from what’s going on now.

I recommend you go onto the Triple P website and pay £90 for the separation / conflict online court certified parenting course.

I read it on a dad’s forum, it helps the court to see that you are taking full responsibility to do as much as you can ahead of asking for what you want.

another thing, I don’t know about you but prior court hearings your both meant to exchange statements and so on at the same time so that the other side doesn’t then go back and shape their statement to counteract yours - this happened to me each and every time. I’d be in time, they’d be late but have my bundle. So I hear that dads are putting password protection onto this, they hand in to their solicitor digitally at the required time but don’t release the password until they’ve sent their statements to you,

as for contact in meantime? RP has now created more problems in that DC is now impacted, one of which will be picking up on the vibrational energy from RP and in general, not understanding exacts of what’s going on and all the upsetting destabilising torn loyalty mixed feelings that you’d expect from a child in this situation.

when you’re so gaslit or used to being under the dominant parents decisions, it’s so very hard to take that step back and consider how the system will biew the most important issue here; which is the cutting of all contact and the impact upon the child from the RP actions. Sometimes we just want to know how other people esp professionals will view a parent like that when you’re made to feel like it’s justified because you’re the spare parent. If that.

Honestorlietothem · 06/05/2025 18:22

OP has repeatedly stated that they aren’t the decision makers in weekend contact etc. that they’d love to do the day to day but that’s RP remit. That there’s compromise, willingness to co parent and figure out new normals and so on if given the opportunity, it’s clear to me they’re in a state of anxiety and distress, and they are second guessing if the actions of the RP are proportionate to OP not going along with a unilaterally imposed with sanctions of no contact with the DC new ‘plan’. It prob seems obvious that the RP is not acting in DC best interests but with people who behave this way and then the additional cortisol and despair of the abrupt contact removal, it can be impossible to see the wood for the trees, and that I think they do need validation, I was getting irritated by the amount of posts asking why contact can’t be like this and empathising with the RP re weekend contacts or lack thereof despite OP making it clear again and again that their not the ones in control of the contact pattern they’ve been managing to uphold for a lengthy period of time. This OP has had their child taken away from them entirely with an extremely traumatic and unclear route to reunification ahead of them where alienation can and absolutely does take shape at a frightening speed. When you have two people in a room and one had everything to lose (OP) and one hasn’t got anything to lose (RP will almost certainly remain RP) the one with nothing to lose is able to conduct themselves far better; present calm and in the manner they are aware is expected of them in court and so on, when you’re the one with everything to lose, you can come over as chaotic and defiant and so on, but it’s much more complex than that. It’s every parents worst nightmare. We need to give OP grace for that.

CoffeeCup14 · 07/05/2025 07:55

Honestorlietothem · 06/05/2025 18:22

OP has repeatedly stated that they aren’t the decision makers in weekend contact etc. that they’d love to do the day to day but that’s RP remit. That there’s compromise, willingness to co parent and figure out new normals and so on if given the opportunity, it’s clear to me they’re in a state of anxiety and distress, and they are second guessing if the actions of the RP are proportionate to OP not going along with a unilaterally imposed with sanctions of no contact with the DC new ‘plan’. It prob seems obvious that the RP is not acting in DC best interests but with people who behave this way and then the additional cortisol and despair of the abrupt contact removal, it can be impossible to see the wood for the trees, and that I think they do need validation, I was getting irritated by the amount of posts asking why contact can’t be like this and empathising with the RP re weekend contacts or lack thereof despite OP making it clear again and again that their not the ones in control of the contact pattern they’ve been managing to uphold for a lengthy period of time. This OP has had their child taken away from them entirely with an extremely traumatic and unclear route to reunification ahead of them where alienation can and absolutely does take shape at a frightening speed. When you have two people in a room and one had everything to lose (OP) and one hasn’t got anything to lose (RP will almost certainly remain RP) the one with nothing to lose is able to conduct themselves far better; present calm and in the manner they are aware is expected of them in court and so on, when you’re the one with everything to lose, you can come over as chaotic and defiant and so on, but it’s much more complex than that. It’s every parents worst nightmare. We need to give OP grace for that.

That may be what you are seeing. That's not what I'm picking up from the tone of OP's comments and the consistent responses to anyone disagreeing with them.

I have experience of a similar-ish situation, so it's not that I have no idea what OP is going through - just that (like pretty much all threads on here) we're hearing the story the way OP sees it, or wants it to be heard, and people have questions.

This is 'am I being unreasonable'? The OP (again, not uncommon) is deflecting any comments which disagree with their view of the situation, and encouraging people to support their point of view. If it's a more sympathetic response that OP is looking for, there are other boards on mumsnet which might be more suitable.

curious79 · 07/05/2025 08:01

Mediation, while it sounds really worthy, impact is a total ball ache if you’re dealing with the knob end.

that aside, I would’ve thought the courts would prefer continuation of the status quo. They might also order a section 27 report to see what the child wants. What does the DC want?

judging by what you’re saying, this parent is actually suggesting they stop seeing their child so much?! I mean how weird.

Honestorlietothem · 07/05/2025 12:06

They’re not deflecting, they’re clarifying. Posters are ssking

CoffeeCup14 · 07/05/2025 12:43

Honestorlietothem · 07/05/2025 12:06

They’re not deflecting, they’re clarifying. Posters are ssking

There's a lot of 'I know about that' and 'that's not relevant to my circumstances' which to me sounds like an attempt to dismiss any questions which don't support OP's opinion.

But I suspect that you and I are both reading the posts in the light of our own experiences (in the absense of any impartial information) so we aren't going to see the same thing.

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