Attempt to change existing (multiple years long) informal agreement!

[CrazyPeopleWow]

Hello,

Wondering peoples experiences to see if it can relate. Hoping it can!

Myself and ex-partner share an 11 year old, separated since DC was approx 1 year old. We've had an informal agreement in place ever since. Ex-partner is attempting to change informal agreement, for reasons that are not safeguarding and already confirmed by ex-partner (in writing) aren't for safeguarding reasons.

The informal agreement works on alternating weeks, so to give an idea, this is how it looks outside of booked holidays, this is on a weekly regular basis:

Week 1 - ex-partner has DC Monday evenings to Friday mornings drop-off to school. DC is then with myself school pickup Fridays until Monday dinner/tea time.

Week 2 - ex-partner has DC Monday evenings to Saturday mid-afternoon. DC is then with myself from Saturday mid-afternoons until Monday dinner/tea time.

This is all they've ever known and been accustomed to. DC has siblings on both sides of the family. Child maintenance has never been missed and is calculated by the CMS with DirectPay. Holidays have always been a contentious issue, asking for dates so we can book things etc as we like to plan things way in advance, DC has had holidays both abroad and UK based with myself regularly for the past 10 years. Christmas day/Boxing day/New Years eve has been alternated each year. DC has recently missed a weekend break due to ex-partner going back on an agreement (via messages) where we swapped a day each.

We live approx 1 hour/46 miles away and myself does 95% of the drop-offs and pickups. I have always done this and have no problem doing it where safe to do so for the majority of the time.

Ex-partner is now attempting to reduce this existing agreement to the following:

Every week - ex-partner has DC Sunday early evenings to Saturday mid-afternoon. Myself to then have Saturday mid-afternoon to Sunday early evenings. Ex-partner has also attempted to "allow" approx 30% of school holidays to myself, whilst having the remaining 70%. Obviously I have not agreed to this, as I feel it doesn't feel it massively reduces adequate time for DC with myself and his siblings here and our wider family whom have built up strong relationships with DC.

Ex-partner has now stopped all physical contact, only "allowing" phone contact which they are "recording and supervising" and is refusing to allow DC to continue formalities unless we agree to new changes ex-partner has attempted to enforce. This is their justification for doing the above. They have also stated as DC is starting secondary school in September, that this serves best for DC. My point is that routine should be upheld, that is all they have ever been used to. It has never been an issue before now for such a long time.

As you would expect, we have applied for a formalized CAO due to all of the above, following legal advice and been told we have MIAM exemption. Ex-partner is now saying we must go to mediation and pay for all costs, which legals have told us is not the case.

Obviously we are very concerned at whats happening, DC has and is currently missing a lot of major scheduled events, not being able to bond with siblings DC has grown up with. Courts aren't very quick we know that but feel like we have no other choice! DC has also expressed to school they wish to see both parents and keep things as they are.

Based on the above, does anybody have any experience what courts may formalize? What could happen next etc?

Appreciate any advice!

I'm not trying to claim I am remotely experienced in this area but my brother went through this. After years of an agreement between them she wanted to change it. The onus was on her to show WHY the change was needed for the children's sake. She had nothing and wouldn't do mediation. I believe she made some claims about what the children wanted but these were disputed and she refused to allow cafcass to speak to the kids so couldn't evidence those claims.

The courts found in my brother's favour and the established routine continued.

She didn't withhold custody though. I can't imagine how painful that must be for you and your child. I hope there's a swift resolution that works for your child.

What you are missing in this is that your child is reaching an age where the child is going to have an independent life. The transition to secondary school is huge. Every year that passes, your child’s own schedule is going to become a bigger factor in determining everything.

you live an hour away. It’s not just about your child wanting to see friends. Are you prepared to get your child to volunteer activities or impromptu study groups?

I don’t have a good solution for you. I don’t agree with withholding custody, but your ex is correct, your current situation is not sustainable.

I have not assumed you were the dad. And I moved WITH my kids over 100 miles from their father and bust a gut to ensure their contact was still regular - he ended up spending MORE time with them 1:1 than he had before we split up - so I know more than most about what a pita it is to have parents move so far away. I too moved out of necessity rather than just for the sake of it, but still ensure that contact was maintained.

My ex never once did a school run. Ever. So my moving didn't change that. Picking your dc up every other Friday and dropping them off at school on Monday does not equal a fair share of the shitty jobs either - your ex still has all the mundane stuff - school admin, parents evenings, trip reminders, dress up days, lunches to pack, after school stuff and clubs etc, while you have time with them free of the strain of homework, bedtimes, bathing, getting up for school - just to enjoy parenting them.

Your ex's demand to change has not been done in the best interests of the dc, but I do, unfortunately, believe that if you do go to court, unless you are prepared to move to make 50/50 possible, you will likely be awarded EOW, one night in the week and extra holiday time.

So There are safeguarding issues if there is abuse?

Yes, you moving away has caused a problem with access (not the only problem it
seems).

Why would you have an informal arrangement if there was abuse? The best thing you can do is get a proper court order for access arrangements. This is what is in the child’s best interests. What is in their best interests evolves as they get older- you can’t play the ‘it has always been this way’ card.

Thank you for your comments, it is re-assuring to hear that. Yes it kills me that DC is being withheld against their will and against their normal weekly routine. I will keep this as light at the end of the tunnel!

I absolutely support that, I have a step-DC and they are in secondary so already know what this is like, thank you.

I have always been prepared to do whats needed for DC, the evidence is overwhelming of what I have done for DC.

Thanks for your concern on withholding, I never ever wish this upon any human being. It is so traumatic.

Whilst the current situation you say isn't sustainable in your words, ex-partner hasn't asked for any further weekend time in the revised agreement they are trying to make me sign, why? If they wanted more time, wouldn't they ask for this in that revised plan? They are only seeking to reduce my "nights", I think looking at it the more its discussed, that much is obvious.

Sorry to hear your issues. I have done lots of school runs, I also have attended every parents evening, show school performance, etc, that isn't in question here. We are responsible for the days we have DC, that's been agreed for years upon years. I am not looking to uproot his stability, ex-partner is. If they would have gone about it a lot more amicably, then something I am sure could have been done about it, but they didn't.

Everything regarding safeguarding has been documented and hence the reason court applications have started.

I moved 9 years ago, this agreement has been in place that long (and longer before I moved it was in place actually). Exactly that regarding informal agreement with abuse, everything has always been done for DC, the abuse was recent hence the court application. Now DC is being withheld on normal contact arrangements.

I am defo not playing it has always been this way, but actions have spoken louder than words from ex-partner. Who isn't trying to change weekend contact, they are saying I am "allowed" to have Saturday afternoons to Sunday evenings, which is still a large chunk of weekend time, no? So clearly they do not want the weekend time still, they just want to reduce the amount of times DC stays overnight.

In terms of going to court and dealing with the legal system, are you on the birth certificate? Is your parental responsibility legally established or will you need to prove that in court as a first step?

When you go to court ask for what you want. She isn't being reasonable. She's denying access and using your child as a weapon. That's not in the best interests of the child. If you have to do court you may as well get as much written in to the order as possible. Go through the school holidays and look at what you'd like. Include things like father's day and your birthday. Maybe alternating who he spends his birthday with, Christmas and New year, good Friday and Easter Monday.

I'd also ask for contact with her to be via a court approved parenting app. that way if she fucks about you have evidence. You can have calls and texts recorded and uneditable.

We meet half way but I was one that moved and fully expected the court to say I had to travel to ex and back. If you choose to move - you have to do all the travelling.

starting point is 50/50 so week on and week off.

my ex is much further than you - I moved (the court allowed this is very specific reasons), but he doesn’t get any more than 50/50 of the holidays - he wanted them all my ex and the judge said no that the day to day parenting is not the same as holidays.

So your ex wants to swap from a 2-week pattern to a weekly pattern where the weekend is split 50-50ish? It looks to me like you'd be going from 5 nights a fortnight to one night a week, which is quite a drop. However, the current arrangement in terms of weekends seems quite unfair. When one parent is doing the majority of the midweek work, the relaxed weekend time is needed to have a balanced relationship.

An alternative could be for you to have two nights one weekend and one the next. So you get a bit more time than your ex is suggesting but your ex still gets some weekend time.

Changes to routines don't necessarily have to be for safeguarding reasons. If the arrangement isn't working well for the other parent for whatever reason, it can be reviewed. Children's needs and the time they spend with their parents change as they get older, so the way contact with both parents is arranged may need to be changed.

Having said all that, your ex sounds like they are being very unreasonable. Midweek overnights should be in place unless there's a good reason not to (and if you can drop off at school on a Tuesday morning, you could presumably drop off after a Wednesday night). Witholding contact is absolutely unacceptable unless there are significant risks to the child. It is traumatising for them and damaging to their relationship with you and their other parent. Hopefully you will get an urgent hearing to resolve this.

If it goes to court you could ask for your child to live with you more of the time. If that's what you want but your ex hasn't agreed to it, you might as well ask for it. If your ex is this unreasonable and uncompromising with you, I would wonder about their parenting style.

So for a decade you've had all the weekends? Seems very unfair

My Granddaughter (6 at the time) was asked by the judge what she wanted after asking. Child friendly questions and made a decision based on her answers.

Hey,

Yes on the birth certificate and have full PR.

Thank you for these helpful tips. I have already started working on these actually. The parenting app is another thing I have requested due to the domestic violence. That would definitely make me feel safer.

Unfortunately the latest is now ALL contact has been stopped. I cannot even get through to DC via phone call or message etc. The justifications are that they are protecting their mental health. However they originally said it was because I didn’t agree to their terms! All of this is evidenced! How are the courts going to see this?

Hey. Well I have always done all of the travelling so that’s no different to the normal routine that’s been in place for 10 years now, it makes no difference to me that.

So basically from what you are saying it seems like family courts see most situations as 50/50 shared parenting plans and work from there? If that’s the case then I am in an even stronger position I feel.

Thank you for the insight, that sounds very reasonable to me. The thing is, anybody that’s knows me knows I’m not unreasonable at all. This way of living has been the norm for 10 years, a lot of friends always say your weekends are just taken with the kids and you hardly get a break etc but with a supportive partner and family we’ve just accommodated it. I’m open to compromise and understand things sometimes change, it’s just the demanding and expectation just change it on their terms and completely throw out the normal routine whilst that’s ongoing I find completely unacceptable.

Its now got worse and ex-partner has cut of ALL contact with DC and me. Horrific thoughts fill my mind of what they are telling DC. I really pray and hope family courts do something about this. I can’t believe it’s even allowed in the interim! :(

Thanks for your very helpful advice.

In terms of what you have said there, that wasn’t what was asked for at the very beginning, it was what ex-partner “decided” would happen and therefore I agreed for DC sake and that’s now been the situation for 10 years. Is it still unfair?

All contact has been completely cut off for DC and me and family and siblings, is that fair?

I’ve got no problem with child friendly answers. I’ve been told it’s not the deciding factor though, as ex-partner could be brain-washing DC to say these things and convince them otherwise, especially now all contact has been cut off.

Out of interest, what did your granddaughter say and what was the full decision?

She told the judge she didn't want to go with daddy and it made her upset.The judge said she was able to make up her own mind and contact stopped.She is 14 now and has had no contact with father.

I’m sorry but I’ve already checked this out legal advice wise and a 6 year old cannot make decisions for themselves. A parent could easily brainwash them or convince them the “other parent is nasty”. This is why CAFCASS are involved, a judge doesn’t ask a 6 year old directly it’s CAFCASS who speak to children.

I feel sorry for your granddaughter, because having one parent not in their lives is very damaging unless that parent has proven to be abusive. Tragic if that’s happened. But there’s got to be more to that story than just that. Any parent who loves their kids would fight harder than things just based on that.

Won't fight for his child because his need was only drugs and stealing birthday money and clearing her bank account (all proven)having people turn up at her door after saying he lived there(he did not)threatening my daughter in front of my grandchild and traumatizing them.Mediation,caffcass,police social services all involved.I stated about the judge as this is what happened.(fact).You don't need to feel sorry for my granddaughter she has everything she needs in her mother whereas he isn't allowed in the area where he comes from as he has so many undesirables looking for him.If I knew where he was I would lead them to him after what he put my family through.

Why not try EOW and you travel mid week to take the child out? It’s not fair for you to have every weekend and you having another child shouldn’t mean their other parent can’t see them at the weekend.

That’s awful from what you describe it really is and I’m glad your granddaughter is doing well.

However that’s completely different to my situation so I’m not sure the relevance or helpful advice or angle you’re coming from here.