Attempt to change existing (multiple years long) informal agreement!

[CrazyPeopleWow]

Hello,

Wondering peoples experiences to see if it can relate. Hoping it can!

Myself and ex-partner share an 11 year old, separated since DC was approx 1 year old. We've had an informal agreement in place ever since. Ex-partner is attempting to change informal agreement, for reasons that are not safeguarding and already confirmed by ex-partner (in writing) aren't for safeguarding reasons.

The informal agreement works on alternating weeks, so to give an idea, this is how it looks outside of booked holidays, this is on a weekly regular basis:

Week 1 - ex-partner has DC Monday evenings to Friday mornings drop-off to school. DC is then with myself school pickup Fridays until Monday dinner/tea time.

Week 2 - ex-partner has DC Monday evenings to Saturday mid-afternoon. DC is then with myself from Saturday mid-afternoons until Monday dinner/tea time.

This is all they've ever known and been accustomed to. DC has siblings on both sides of the family. Child maintenance has never been missed and is calculated by the CMS with DirectPay. Holidays have always been a contentious issue, asking for dates so we can book things etc as we like to plan things way in advance, DC has had holidays both abroad and UK based with myself regularly for the past 10 years. Christmas day/Boxing day/New Years eve has been alternated each year. DC has recently missed a weekend break due to ex-partner going back on an agreement (via messages) where we swapped a day each.

We live approx 1 hour/46 miles away and myself does 95% of the drop-offs and pickups. I have always done this and have no problem doing it where safe to do so for the majority of the time.

Ex-partner is now attempting to reduce this existing agreement to the following:

Every week - ex-partner has DC Sunday early evenings to Saturday mid-afternoon. Myself to then have Saturday mid-afternoon to Sunday early evenings. Ex-partner has also attempted to "allow" approx 30% of school holidays to myself, whilst having the remaining 70%. Obviously I have not agreed to this, as I feel it doesn't feel it massively reduces adequate time for DC with myself and his siblings here and our wider family whom have built up strong relationships with DC.

Ex-partner has now stopped all physical contact, only "allowing" phone contact which they are "recording and supervising" and is refusing to allow DC to continue formalities unless we agree to new changes ex-partner has attempted to enforce. This is their justification for doing the above. They have also stated as DC is starting secondary school in September, that this serves best for DC. My point is that routine should be upheld, that is all they have ever been used to. It has never been an issue before now for such a long time.

As you would expect, we have applied for a formalized CAO due to all of the above, following legal advice and been told we have MIAM exemption. Ex-partner is now saying we must go to mediation and pay for all costs, which legals have told us is not the case.

Obviously we are very concerned at whats happening, DC has and is currently missing a lot of major scheduled events, not being able to bond with siblings DC has grown up with. Courts aren't very quick we know that but feel like we have no other choice! DC has also expressed to school they wish to see both parents and keep things as they are.

Based on the above, does anybody have any experience what courts may formalize? What could happen next etc?

Appreciate any advice!

As you mention an abusive background courts are likely to order a CAFCASS review.

In the past it was usually EOW and one night in the week. However due to distance midweek may not work so perhaps EOW and Monday night. Holidays should be 50%. I think it's not reasonable to split the weekends, with you having most of them so can see why the ex would want that changed.

As your child is 11 the courts via CAFCASS will take on board their opinion. If you can agree between yourselves that will be preferable as a judge will ultimately make a decision that you may not be as keen on!

Regarding mediation, if you have an exemption then it's a moot point who pays. Once at court each party will be responsible for their own costs so your ex will either have to self rep or pay costs. You could both be looking at 10k so mediation is definitely worth it.

As your child gets older it's likely you will see less of them. That won't be the Ex's fault, just what happens when separated parents live further away.

Don't fight a battle that may damage your relationship with your child as they will never forget having to be in the middle of a battle. Focus on a practical solution that has to change due to your child's age. Could you consider moving closer? The biggest obstacle is the distance because generally teenagers don't have a visitation schedule.

No shit they want you to stop arguing. Of course they are then going to say whatever it is they think will keep you happy. You should not have involved the child in the arguments (but they are old enough to voice a view on arrangements. Unfortunately it is too late to really find out what they want - that was before they knew it was causing arguments).

I think it is unfair for one parent to basically to have all weekend time. Who moved away? Therein lies the problem. both parents should be able to see the child during the week. Maybe you need to drive to pick up/drop off for a school night too.

So you have all the weekends (fun time) and ex has the slog of all week?

Hi,

I have never ever been given the option to have DC during midweek, ex-partner won't allow it. Ex-partner doesn't even allow me to speak to DC during the week without intervening (honestly it is shocking). In a normal world, I would agree with you, effort has never been a problem for me, I have driven around the Earth several times to ensure I maintained a regular routine relationship with DC as that is what they deserve! They never get to see their siblings in midweek which is why current agreement has always worked best. Ex-partner must have thought it too as never raised this in over a decade of this informal agreement! I must also stress that ex-partner does have weekend time, from Friday after school to Saturday mid-afternoons is weekend time, is it not?

I am not against anything of that DC wishes, DC has said what they want to do and I fully respect and listen to that, I always have and always will but to suggest resentment because he doesn't see ex-partners family at a weekend doesn't sit right with me, because DC gets to see them all week as well as school holidays all week, whereas DC doesn't get that opportunity with my family, only the weekend. Wouldn't that cause resentment too?

Btw, I really am open to other suggestions, there's got to be more fairness for DC and both parents in this situation. We have a track record of providing DC opportunities to visit different places, countries, holidays, lifetime memories and experiences, ex-partner does this few and far between, I am not saying this as throwing mud, but ex-partner like I said in opening post has demanded 70% of the school holidays too, is that fair? That could cause resentment too right when DC misses out on wonderful things!

The issue I currently have is ex-partner is demanding I sign a new revised agreement of their desires or I cannot see DC! Which is so so wrong!!!

Hey thank you for your suggestion, it is welcoming and not against it at all!

Like you said the issue is that ex-partner has demanded that is the case without actually speaking to me at all!

Ex-partner has tendencies to change / dismiss what we agree, so I think anything that does get agreed needs to be formally ordered, what do you think? I can't have this happen to DC ever again, no doubt it is hurting them as it is!

The courts will be interested in what your child wants but their views will not necessarily be decisive. Since there is a long standing agreement which has apparently worked for years, your ex will need to convince the courts that change is needed. They won't be happy with the way she has gone about trying to force change. That doesn't mean they will necessarily agree to the current arrangement continuing, however. The courts may feel that the mother should get more weekend contact than she does at the moment, but that is likely to be balanced by more contact for you at other times.

Thank you for your detailed message, I agree as they get older they see both parents less as it is anyway!

Of course I don't want to go all the way in court, but what other choice do I have? Ex-partner is withholding DC against me because I refuse to sign to their demands. Surely that cannot be viewed as best interests of DC? I find it appalling. Whilst we disagree, and discuss arrangements, surely DC should continue as is until agreed or ordered?

Unfortunately I can't move closer no, as I said DC has siblings here, whom he has very strong bonds with and we have a very settled life here for the past 9 years. DC knows this as home also.

DC deserves and need both parents regularly present in their life. Whilst it is an hour away, it isn't millions of miles away, right? DC has been doing this for years and has never suggested not wanting too..

I've been trying to think of other solutions, somebody I know gets EOW but majority of the school holidays to compensate for loss of time etc.

Hey, where did I say I involved DC?

If ex-partner didn't demand to change things without even speaking to me, then DC wouldn't have even known, would they? Unless you mean "you" as in ex-partner or both, then apologies.

Hi, again I have already said ex-partner refuses to allow midweek. I moved away 9 years ago to get away from the abuse, does that mean I therein am the problem?

As stated previously, Mondays I have done drop off and pick up for all of DC school life. That is a school night?

Like I said I am open to suggestions, not looking at who to blame here, just solutions that are best for DC.

No, Mondays are catered by me and ex-partner does Tues-Fri mornings. Ex-partner has split weekend EOW as well as the full weeks.

Btw, I'd actually have it the other way around if it was just up to me! I have previously offered to do the swap but ex-partner doesn't want to do that.

If mediation isn’t suitable then court I think may well be beeded

Thank you for your helpful input, it is interesting to note that.

If that is what it comes to, then so be it, if DC is happy with that, then so am I. It would also resolve holidays. We are constantly anxious of booking holidays and taking DC away for ex-partner to then decide "no". This has happened throughout the years. DC recently missed a whole weekend away. We had swapped a night each, ex-partner had one of the nights DC was with me, then when it came to the swapped night for the weekend away, ex-partner said "I didn't remind them", even though it had all been written down and agreed way in advance. This is the type of issues we always have to deal with!

This is what we feared :(

I really do understand what people are saying about weekend contact time with ex-partner. I've never said "no" to this but feel that there should be give and take. Ex-partner has just designed a completely new parenting agreement on their own and said sign or you don't see DC!

Honestly, I think it's in your best interest to go to court and get a child arrangement order. The way it is Ex can kick off and refuse/ obstruct contact. I think it's best to formalise the arrangement once and for all. That doesn't mean they won't continue to be obstructive but it does mean you can ask for the court order to be upheld.

You moving 45 miles away has complicated the matter, certainly. Weekday visits are limited by distance and commute to school, and you are unable to do 50/50 because of the distance involved. You have made yourself a weekend-only dad and your previous arrangement was at the detriment to the ex as, as pp have said, she gets all the mundane shit jobs and majority of school runs, while you get every Saturday night and every Sunday, plus every other Friday night.

Unless you are prepared to move closer I would expect a contact order of EOW and a day in the week (maybe at Grandma's house). You can't have it all ways with the distances involved.

Have you gone to school as normal to collect him? If you have PR and no court order is in place there's no reason why you can't and the school shouldn't get involved. The police won't get involved either.

This is why I feared posting on forums because of the assumptions like this. I have tried giving reasonable detail, you've assumed I'm the dad? Why is that?

You've also assumed I moved for the sake of moving. Like I said in the above posts, I even offered to swap roles with ex-partner, I would do all the "shit" jobs and mundane jobs, like that only applies to a week night as well! That was turned down!

I have not once said I "expect" it all ways. What I have said is that ex-partner has thrown a demand to change standard regular routine for DC which has worked extremely well for 99% of the time, they have also demanded having 70% of the school holidays. Do you think that's fair? Not once have I heard you condone any of that or call it out for what it is, just thrown the assumption to me.

Please offer helpful advice.

Yes I think this is where our thinking is now at :( I can't see any other way out if it as ex-partner is so controlling and demanding without even consulting with the other parent.

You are absolutely right on this. I am under legal advice and they have suggested I continue to normal practice, which doesn't go outside the regular where I would pick up etc and to not inflame tensions. Although you are quite right in that legally I could. I think if DC is withheld longer and longer, I would have to do this at some point to avoid parent alienation. Thus far, it has been 2 weeks being withheld from us. It is heart-breaking! :(

I would go further and say it is hard to understand

Sorry, what?

I wouldn't like this, you have a majority of the weekend whilst the other parent has all the drudgery of school runs etc. with no downtime. I think I would engage in mediation to see if you can come to some form of resolution. They shouldn't be withholding contact though.

Also holidays should be 50/50. Perhaps ask for EOW until Monday and half school holiday (or you could probably ask for more given EOW).

Hey, thanks for your advice, I know what you and everyone is saying about not liking the weekend thing. Honestly I have been asked it so many times by family, friends throughout the years they never understood it but ex-partner didn't want it! They have never ever pushed for it or even hinted at it.

The latest thing is that they are now saying Saturday mid-afternoons until Sunday evenings. So when everyone says to me about fairness over the weekend, even ex-partner still isn't asking for that! All they are now saying is for school handover. I am not fully against the idea of a Sunday evening drop off, but I think as you say school holidays need to be compensated for or Friday evenings or something if you know what I mean?

My close friend does EOW, but they have all the school holidays barring a booked holiday their ex-partner has planned. Christmas day (which alternates). Is that reasonable?