Sort of inheritance one

[DrBlackbird]

Parent in care home. Sibling in 50’s wants to sell own home and move into parental home, which is currently sitting empty, to save on mortgage payments. Sibling is single and on NMW and financially stressed. Though quite a bit is due to their financial choices/mismanagement, love for luxury holidays etc.

Putting a lot of pressure on us to make this happen. Quite an emotionally driven person. Not v flexible or reasonable. Sibling has form being v v forthright in advancing a personal agenda and cutting off contact if displeased. Our DCs are v close so I suppose I’ve tried to ensure that this doesn’t happen.

Has this scenario happened to anyone else? What were the outcomes? On the one hand, the house is sitting empty and it could save the sibling a lot of stress. On the other hand, what happens when parent runs out of savings to fund care? Apparently it’s up to each council to decide/allow the adult child to remain living in the house. Anyone have any experience of this?

If the house doesn’t need to be sold, then that’s another story of what happens once the parent passes and the other recipients want their share.

Interested to hear of anyone else’s similar’ish experiences.

What is the value of both homes? Would sibling be able to buy your parents house? Is your sibling proposing to pay rent?

If not I can't see how this could work because of care home fees and inheritance. Your sibling would get to live there to your and parents detriment.

Amd good luck getting her to move out when your parent passes or getting your share assuming you both are beneficiaries.

This could raise all kinds of problems.

If your sibling wants to move into the parent's house, I would suggest it is tied up from a legal point of view so that there is a proper rental lease agreement in place which would prevent a future issue of the sibling refusing to move out in the event of the house needing to be sold. Similarly, this would apply if the house became part of a deceased estate.

Sell the house or rent it out if its empty. What does the parent want to do. Do they have capacity to agree to letting sibling move in. Does anyone have poa.

The point of moving is to reduce monthly outgoings so no to paying rent and siblings house lower value than parents.

Agree @Spirallingdownwards thats my worry too. Even with a legal agreement, how could you force them out?

I think this would be a risky move. As you say the house may need to be sold to fund care home fees. And even if not how would you eventually get her to move out unless she is to stay there indefinitely. And if the house needs repairs who is going to pay for them. No, not a good idea.

Maybe an alternative is to rent it out @MissMoneyFairy and offer the rent to sibling to pay their mortgage?

Though the house belongs to our parent who doesn’t have capacity. I have poa and pretty sure my legal obligation is to act in parents best interest. Though I think our parent, if they had capacity, probably would agree. Not sure that holds up legally.

When someone is like that, prepared to cut someone off if they disagree with them, I think they forfeit their right to this sort of arrangement. You would never be able to get them out. They would end up saying they would buy you out and pay you a little bit at a time.

It's not a good use of the house anyway. It should be sold on the money invested or kept and rented out. If they are living there for nothing there's extra wear and tear so the house will be reduced in value and no interest would be gained.

I would just say no that's not what is in my mum's best interests. If she cuts you off then well you know what, she would've done that at some point anyway and at least this way you are keeping the value of your mum's house for her

I agree that on balance it’s not a good idea for the wider family but this sibling is desperate.

So sibling wants to sell their house, keep the proceeds then expect to just.move into parents house rent free. Chancer. Once in she may never leave.

Does your parent in the care home have mental capacity, OP? If not, does anybody have power of attorney to make decisions on their behalf? I know very little about how care home fees are funded but isn't it the case that the council can look back through the care recipient's finances and identify if assets have been disposed of just before care fees are due, i.e. to avoid having to pay them, and in that case the council can recover those assets to pay the costs? I would have thought there would be a risk that care recipient's child voluntarily giving up his/her own home and moving into the parental home could be seen as something like an avoidance tactic.

@healthybychristmas sibling is offering to improve the house to increase its overall value. It’s not in great shape as parents never put money into it.

While it's empty you still need to pay bills. Insurance and maintain the house. Do you really want to rent it out. Who would manage it, is it good condition to be rented. Has sibling looked at money management. How would you and mum feel if you rent it, give the money to sibling and they flitter it away on luxuries or holidays. What action has sibling taken to address their debts.

I advise you not to do so. Distant family members are still waiting for their inheritance when one of the siblings moved into the parental home when last parent died. Theory was they would sell their own home and then pay other siblings their share of the value of the parental home, shitty bit is they haven’t managed to sell and are now renting it out. So one sibling is living in the home owned by all siblings and getting money from renting out own home whilst other siblings have got nothing! They all got on before, they don’t now! Just don’t, only winners will be lawyers when you have to get them involved. It’s theft

It should be a firm NO, there is too much that can go wrong. Sibling wouldn't want to leave.

You also have a responsibility to act in parents best interests, you can't rent their house out and give the proceeds to sibling, that would be deprivation of assets.

Sibling is a real CF and needs to sell up and downsize or rent themselves

There’s that @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g I assumed it’d be seen as hiding assets (couldn’t everyone do this to save the family home from being so,d to fund care?) However, sibling has looked into this. Apparently it’s a case by case basis for councils to decide whether to pursue or not if adult child has moved into the parental home. How often that actually happens is anyone’s guess.

It can cost thousands to improve a house up to modern standards

Surely by saying no you're protecting your sibling from becoming homeless potentially if the decision is made that the house needs to be sold. So you are being caring, not difficult. So many reasons why this is a bad call, given what you've said.

Do you really want to rent it out. Who would manage it, is it good condition to be rented

The hassle of fixing it up to get to rentable condition is why we’ve not rented it. Plus then becoming a LL these days seems challenging.

@Kikibee that’s my worry. Sibling might agree to move out of family home, take their share and downsize but that’s a lot of mights.

Also sibling is talking about spending tens of thousands from sale of own home (after paying off mortgage). In any renovation you rarely get back all the money you’ve spent so how does that get calculated into the house sale and division of assets?

Even though you have POA, you have to act in the best interests of your DP, which means that if you chose to rent out their house it would have to be at full market value and that rent would have to be paid into your DPs bank account. You cannot use any of their money to support your sibling!
As your DP is now in residential care, keeping the house empty and unsold isnt a good idea. Even if your sibling moved in, it would still have to be sold to pay DPs fees once they run out of savings. How long do you think their current savings would fund their care?

If they are not organised and responsible (which it sounds like they are not) then chances are they won't do anything beyond basic maintenance, and possibly not even that. If they do some work then they sound like the type to over state how much time and money they spent on it and insist on being paid back so that they get more share of any inheritance than other siblings.

It's a can of worms IMO.

I think the issue is that the immediate pain of struggling financially is the focus, whereas a distant probability of becoming homeless doesn’t seem a real concern.

How long do you think their current savings would fund their care?

Approx two years @Soontobe60 depending on COL increases in care fees / need for more interventionist care.

@DrBlackbird I wouldn’t entertain this. By the sounds of it you won’t be able to get them out.

sounds like a massive mess waiting to happen! the arrangement seems rather one way… Do you have any siblings? What do they think?

more to the point- how is the CF sibling paying down their debts?