She took his money

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Just need some advice if possible.

My dad passed away last month, he left nothing, no belongings, no will, nothing in his bank. I knew this would be the case as he lived hand to mouth and lived a very basic life. He told my bother he had a funeral plan, which I doubted knowing how he lived. With the niggle of a doubt, I requested his last few years bank statements to see if I could find evidence of a plan.

Looking back through his bank statements he was getting around £1200 per month from private pensions, he should have been able to live off that as he had a very subsided rent through a friend and single occupancy council tax.

Small back story. About 10 years ago the kid that lived next door to him was being physically abused by her mother. Her mum was an alcoholic that used to take random guys back for sex, and make the kid stand outside, and she used to try and kill herself once a week. The kid would look to my dad for comfort and support. Social services got involved and she ended up staying with her mum but often used to stay with my dad when her mum was on a bender. Dad gave her her own room and was the only real constant she had. He treated her like a daughter and would pay for things she needed for school etc. As she got older and into teenage years she started going out and about with her friends, living at home but often popping into dads to get subsidised with money for booze etc. He made sure she got s job when she left school and she was a decent kid, or so I thought!

I have been going back through his bank account and can see that he was giving her upwards of £250 per month and leaving himself short where he would borrow money from me. He would often call me and say he couldn't afford the heating or food! There were also a couple of transactions with her mums address on where hes paid for stuff and its been for the mum.

The girl is now engaged and has a kid of her own and lives about an hour from dad, however from his bank account there have been numerous transactions every month, sometimes totaling £500. There have been a few odd payments of her attempting to pay it back. The total in the last 4 years alone is over 5 grand that he's given her with her trying to pay back about £400.00. I'm absolutely livid. Not only that, hes paid for her fines for the toll bridge back to her home at least 3 times, well over £200.00.

I called her out over the weekend and she said he used to give her money here and there to help her out and she said she would pay it back, but he said no. I said she should have just done it. Her partner is a police officer and has asked me to deal with him as he's upset that I have pulled her up on it and that she has tried to kill herself since dad died as he was like a dad/grandad to her. Also very much to try and guilt trip me to not pursue this. She hasn't lived next door or with him for over 2 years and yet in the last 2 years alone the total is about 2.5k and then some. There are also transactions for takeaways he's paid for for her and her partner.

Any ideas where I stand legally? Can I report this as fraud as he was a vulnerable adult. He died of Pneumonia as he could not afford heating. The paramedics wrote a report about the state of his home, and I feel ashamed he lived like that. He was 4 hours form us but often refused to come and live with us. I have had to pay for the funeral as he literally had nothing at all. I feel like I can't grieve properly as I'm so angry. Angry at him for being so bloody stupid and angry at her for taking him for a ride.

The woman obv brought your dad some joy in his life. Be grateful he had her.

Its too late now to do anything, he's gone sadly.

Given he had a fatherly role in the girls life it’s understandable that he would help her financially in any way he could. Unfortunately he really couldn’t afford to.
I would just let it go.

I would report her to the police. The complaint wouldn’t go anywhere in the long run because I don’t think there’s enough evidence for a prosecution but I think she knew exactly what she was doing and I want her and her fiancé to feel the heat from the fire.

Whether she knows how to relate to people in a healthy way, considering her upbringing, I don’t know. The multiple suicide attempts indicate an unstable individual. But they could also be seen as quite manipulative.

If you think, on balance, she’s just a messed up person, I’d leave it. Otherwise, I’d report.

I think a lot of posters are not seeing that this could well be a case of financial abuse of someone elderly and vulnerable because the OP has said she's found out he had a reasonable monthly pension she didn't know about and she's having to pay for the fuberal.

The OP's father doesn't have to have lacked capacity for this to have happened. If this were me I would want it looked into. The OP didn't know her father had funds but was spending them on someone else. I completely get that grief and an element of guilt for not realising what was going on will play into this for the OP. Her father has been living in poverty because of the greed of this other woman and her partner. Apart from anything else, if he was paying for takeaways for her, was she directly accessing his bank account, using his card details to pay for her spending? That is dodgy as hell. And records will show if that was the case. The OP doesn't have to have evidence. If she chooses to report this, the authorities have the power to investigate and gather evidence.

And if the partner is a police officer I think he'll have questions to answer about his conduct. If he isn't then they look more like a pair of grifters.

I’m talking about the woman’s police man husband, not the OP’s father.

The POLICE OFFICER shouldn’t be coercing or guilt tripping anyone to feel guilt or keep schtum about the movement of money from
one vulnerable party to another vulnerable party - all of whom might be under the influence of the POLICE OFFICER.

Regardless of anything that happened in days gone by when this girl/woman was vulnerable and in need, the fact that a POLICE OFFICER is now involving himself in this and isn’t absolutely horrified by the whole situation is a RED FLAG.

It has been 10 years from when presumably she was a young child and it started then way before the police officer boyfriend was on the scene. If it was anew thing within the last year then yes and does the relationship between the girl and the police officer give out red flags then yes

so if he had lacked capacity then it has been for 10 years and given his mental health issues that is possible

If this woman cared for OP’s father like a daughter, she would have ensured that he wasn’t going short whilst funding her. That’s what an actual daughter would do. She was getting money from him but she didn’t know how he lived (suggesting she just used him as an ATM) or she didn’t care.

It’s true that OP also didn’t know how her father lived but she lived much further away and she was giving her father money, not taking large sums from him.

I’m so sorry for your loss. Your dad sounds like a complicated man and she was a very troubled person too too, so they found each other. For whatever reason, he gave her money. Its gone.

He made so many mistakes, this is just more mistakes he made, but he is gone now and can’t make any more.

I would focus your energy on getting some counselling yourself.

Until you have looked after a person like this you should not comment. Apart from anything your comment is very unkind when someone is grieving the loss of a dad. You should be ashamed.

Think you need to let this one go. As a social worker with the elderly, we wouldn't deal with this after someone had died. Even when he was alive, it would have been tricky as if he was deemed to have the capacity to make decisions on what he wanted to spend his money on, we could not have argued that he was being coerced into giving this girl money. Unwise choices are not the same as not having the capacity to make a choice.

Hmm I don't know. He may have enjoyed treating her. Or she may have been really manipulative and basically told him she'd cut all contact unless he 'bought' her company. That would upset me as well if I thought my parent was being treated like that.

Another thing that rings alarm bells is that he couldn't afford to do it and knew he couldn't afford to so called you as soon as he knew he needed financial support. This suggests in one way or another that he was almost guilted into helping her out.

How has it been left with her partner? Age UK and Action on Elder Abuse helplines may be able to advise.

I would report it to the relevant services, in my area it would be MASH at county council

Although you know now that she has done this with your dad - has she is is she doing this with anyone else?

This really doesn't sound quite right, its the paying for takeaways that really doesn't sit right..

why when her dp is a policeman earning a decent wage?

I have Police Officers in my family and they would not get involved in this at all, despite what you read in the news, the Police are very quick to come down on officers up to anything that could be perceived as dodgy so effectively warning you off doesn't sound like something a genuine officer would do.

I would suggest reporting this to the Police and leave them to look into it.You won't get the money back but it may stop others being exploited.

Would your Dad have been able to transfer money, presume it was online banking, or could the neighbour have been helping themselves?

OP, are you sure you’ve located all your dad’s bank accounts and tied up all his financial affairs? You’ve said that the money given away totalled about £5k in four years. Your dad was receiving a private pension of £1,200 a month plus, presumably, a state pension: giving away gifts amounting to less than £1,500 a year from an income that size shouldn’t have left him destitute.

My Lost Account can be used to trace old bank accounts and savings accounts - worth giving it a try.

I agree and some parents are not straight forward AT ALL and don’t want help.

Most people with experience working with the elderly understand that not all elderly people are nice knitting grannies reading Take a Break and baking scones.
Some are extremely difficult to love, are mentally unwell, some refuse help, make terrible decisions and it is so painful to watch a parent getting into difficulties (while feeling that everyone around them must be thinking you are a terrible daughter to allow this happen.)

Have you seen any of the hoarding programmes on TV, do you think their children should feel guilty too? Sorry for the long winded post but I just wanted to say that it’s not always straightforward. Most people with very elderly parents find this out later on.

Sorry again for your loss x

All of these comments about her being vulnerable - but she had a partner. So what was he doing while all this was happening. Appalling that he was letting this happen.

Perhaps he wasn’t aware, or didn’t consider it significant. It doesn’t seem as though we’re talking about vast sums of money here: OP says about £5k in four years and mentions things like takeaways and road tolls, rather than lavish material purchases which a partner might question.

You are grieving and lashing out at this woman. It seems your father freely gifted this woman the money. Your father was allowed to spend his money as he saw fit. In life you believed he was well enough to manage his finances and he chose to gift this money to this woman. Filling yourself with hatred will not make you feel better.

I can see why you are cross but if he willingly gave it to her and as you say treated her like a daughter then there is nothing you can do, you can't prove anything.
I would leave it.
You say you feel no guilt but it's common when someone dies to feel some guilt, to think what if or if only.
You did what you were able to at the time, your dad made the choices he did, maybe she manipulated him, maybe she didn't, it does sound like she had an incrediblly hard upbringing and your dad was a kind generous soul.
But I don't think you have anything to gain by doing this and it does sound like you are hitting out, trying to find reasons why he died, and possibly asuage any guilt that you weren't more involved in his day to day life.

Why is it fraud? He chose to help her. Good for him!

This. He appears to have chosen a certain kind of life, from OP's descriptions of his home. Not what I would choose but he seems to have chosen it.

He also seems to have chosen to support a vulnerable young woman, who has suffered a great deal. Trauma doesn't stop just because someone is a few years older. The dad wanted to support her and did.

I feel like I can't grieve properly as I'm so angry. Angry at him for being so bloody stupid and angry at her for taking him for a ride.

I think you're directing your grief in a really sad and painful way. I don't know if a counsellor could hep you reframe this. Because instead of seeing him as stupid and her as manipulative, it's just as 'true' to see him as selfless and her as traumatised. Reporting to police won't do anything for your feelings. And if they come back and say, 'nothing to see here' as I think they will, you'll feel even worse.

Sorry for your loss. Try to mourn your dad as a flawed but very kind man.

Why is it fraud? He chose to help her. Good for him!

Do you not think it is odd he is paying for her dp and herself to get a takeaway?

not fraud but possibly something is untoward if then the same gentleman couldn't afford to have the heating on and died of a related illness

This. It's an average of £100 per month. Were his bills high despite being subsidised/discounted?

It sounds as if he treated her like a DD. She visited him regularly and he probably enjoyed her company. Unless he was of inbound mind it was his choice to help her out. You may not approve of how he spent his money but it was, as an adult, his choice.