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Original poster

Taken to court by ex landlord for decoration etc of property after 10 yr tenancy

261 replies

AgnesR · 01/12/2023 15:07

Hi
Would love any advice or support or pointers towards help
I am so upset because my ex landlord is taking me to court for £7500 for a load of repairs, new carpets, worktops etc, plus loss of rental income after my 10 year tenancy.(Rent was £750!)
I always paid on time, asked very little of them
All the carpets were old and thin when I moved in
There was of course wear and tear after a family lived somewhere for 10 years
but it was totally clean, totally emptied (of course), and we did lots of painting over scuffs. Several people helped and I honestly thought we left it in a (more than) fair state for them to do the necessary work after a 10 year tenancy (to good, polite tenants!)
I am already under so much stress with severely disabled child, my own health issues, finances etc and this is the last straw!
Thank you

OP posts:
TheGander · 01/12/2023 16:05

OP I am a landlord and the deposit schemes definitely do not side with landlords. In fact they were set up by the government to curb abusive landlords. Some important considerations: 1) did he put your deposit in one of the accredited schemes such as MyDeposits, Tenancy Deposit Scheme orDeposit Protection Service? 2) did he do an inventory, with photographs when you moved in?
If he didn’t put your money into a deposit scheme you can sue him for multiples of your deposit. An inventory will show the state of the place when you moved in. But anyway, he can’t try and sue you for new carpets after years in the property, it’s fair wear and tear. As PPs have said, you are in a strong position, don’t let him bully and intimidate you.

Caterina99 · 01/12/2023 16:05

I’m a landlord. This is ridiculous. Do you have any photos to prove the condition of the carpet/worktop etc when you moved in and out?

Even without that, if the carpet wasn’t replaced the entire time you were there, even if it was new the day you moved in, after 10 years he would really have no claim on you for a new one!

I think he knows you’ll be stressed by this and will offer to “settle” on a lower amount to avoid the drama. Get someone to help you write a letter in reply and basically tell him to fuck off. Don’t be scared by him, as if it’s as you say it it is then there can be no legal claim by him here.

It’s a shame you didn’t fight the tenancy deposit as they often do usually side with the tenant to be honest. Maybe there’s some way you can get that back too!

To be honest I’d probably let it get to court in the hope he’d be shamed by them for his awful actions here. But that’s probably not what you want

divinededacende · 01/12/2023 16:12

I haven't worked in letting since 2015 but, jesus christ, if a tenant hands back keys after a stable 10 year tenancy with very little asked in terms of repairs and maintenance, you take it in whatever cosmetic condition it's in and be thankful for the years of consistent rent.

Realistically, no decent landlord would be re-letting a property after 10 years without a refresh and new carpers anyway. Even if the tenant had ripped the carpet to shreds, it shouldn't matter because they'd need to be replaced regardless. This asshole is just being opportunistic. They're taking the absolute piss.

Try and get a really robust letter drafted with support from Shelter or CAB and send it to them to try and head this off at the pass. They might think you're clueless and easy prey but knowing you have someone backing you might cool them off a bit.

housethatbuiltme · 01/12/2023 16:14

Did you paint it a different colour and change the carpets etc...?

Or is it a decade of wear?

Legally there is fuck all he can do for wear and tear, thats HIS job to fix.

If you painted the walls (especially if you did it badly or an vibrant/dark colour) or wallpapered he can claim money from the deposit to fix it... usually only a few hundred max.

I would frankly just laugh at him, its VERY rare he will get even a few hundred back and he has to prove EVERYTHING. Basically prove the house was in a shit state and untenable.

He cannot charge you to redecorate or re-carpet just because its not in new condition, those are his costs as a landlord.

SutWytTi · 01/12/2023 16:18

They may be trying to frighten you into settling out of court.

I think you need legal advice - a good place to try can be university law clinics. Also ring CAB and Shelter.

Try to write everything down all the time so you don't forget anything you are told.

Mumofoneandone · 01/12/2023 16:20

Just make sure you reply to any court papers by the date advised. Or request an extension if an option. Otherwise you could risk the other side winning by default.
Also say they have already kept your deposit.
Provide any evidence requested.
Keep fighting, it is worth it.

Noshowlomo · 01/12/2023 16:29

Are you in Wales by any chance op?

aquickquestion1 · 01/12/2023 16:30

FIGHT - I bet you win

DisquietintheRanks · 01/12/2023 16:31

kitchenhelprequired · 01/12/2023 15:27

The LL has got absolutely no chance of getting anything after 10 years for carpets or redecoration - both are things which are expected to be carried out more often than every 10 years so I really don't think you have anything to be concerned about.

Some of the timescales used for guidelines are ridiculously short - very few owner occupiers fully decorate or replace flooring anywhere near as often as the guidelines state.

Of course not. Do you replace the downstairs carpets every 3 years in your home?

Viviennemary · 01/12/2023 16:31

You really need to get permission before you decorate or put in new carpets. Not sure what the courts will say. why didn't you just ask first. But I doubt you will need to pay 7.5 k. I agree get advice,

DoggerelBank · 01/12/2023 16:44

I know nothing about the legalities of this issue, but we have experience of a nasty bully taking us to small claims court over something completely ridiculous. We spent a long time and stress preparing to win in court (which we were !00% sure we would do), and refused to settle out of court through a mediator. The mediator was a joke - was cross with us for not being flexible enough to agree to a settlement, not interested at all in what actually had or hadn't happened. We submitted docs ahead of the court date, as per court instructions. The nasty bully didn't bother to submit any documents, and pulled out the day before the case. I think these people do it to try to intimidate you and hope you'll settle out of court, even though they know they haven't got a leg to stand on. Stand up to him!

Bordesleyhills · 01/12/2023 16:47

Did you have his permission? Did he visit in that 10 years?

MrsSunshine2b · 01/12/2023 16:54

Assuming he plans to argue that you trashed the place and it's not fair wear and tear, He can only claim the value of the item as it would have been after 10 years use, so a 10 year old carpet is worth approximately £0.00. A 10 year old worktop (assuming it was brand new when you moved in) is a bit more debatable but certainly not £7500. Repairs (provided it's not careless breaking of things) are his responsibility, and should have been repaired during the tenancy. What kind of things is he alleging need repairing? Because any appliances would have a lifespan of only around 10 years anyway.

Malbecfan · 01/12/2023 17:00

Your LL is not entitled to betterment. He cannot demand new worktops from you, only those equivalent to 10 years' use.

As others are asking, do you have a signed and dated inventory? If not, he has no chance. Do you have photos from when you moved in, or indeed at any point during the tenancy where you can prove that it is the same carpet as in 2014 (Christmas for example)?

As others say, you can and should fight this and should win. Was your deposit in one of the schemes mentioned by @TheGander ? If not, you can claim up to 3x the value of the deposit at the discretion of the judge. Go for the LL's jugular. People like them deserve it. There is help on MoneySaving Expert's House Buying Renting and Selling forum from experienced landlords who hate people like your ex-LL as it gives good ones a bad name. Good luck!

CormorantStrikesBack · 01/12/2023 17:02

There's no way he can get 7.5k out of you. Maybe the deposit would be kept but you've left that for him already! bet he doesn't have photos of the property from 10 years ago as well. I imagine he'll pull out before the court date.

Sherlocklovelyhomes · 01/12/2023 17:03

Is this a landlord in the public eye?

Tgirl19 · 01/12/2023 17:04

If you didn’t fight the deposit they may be thinking that you won’t turn up to court as they would get a default judgement.

Brightandbubly · 01/12/2023 17:11

Do you have any correspondence asking for repairs etc? Did he ignore or fob you off?
Will go in your favour as he is obviously an awful landlord that didn’t maintain the property in the last 10 years

3peassuit · 01/12/2023 17:23

I thought Fergus Wilson too. He’s well known for being the unacceptable face of capitalism in these parts.

Pluvia · 01/12/2023 17:25

No, he can't make you accountable for wear and tear. If he's said he's going to do it, he's just trying to scare you. He should have paid to have the place decorated the place at least once over a 10-year-tenancy and if he was wise he'd have been sorting out things like old carpets too.

Edited to add: I can see things have moved on since I started responding to you. Ignore me. I'd delete myself if I could!

Needmoresleep · 01/12/2023 17:33

TheGander · 01/12/2023 16:05

OP I am a landlord and the deposit schemes definitely do not side with landlords. In fact they were set up by the government to curb abusive landlords. Some important considerations: 1) did he put your deposit in one of the accredited schemes such as MyDeposits, Tenancy Deposit Scheme orDeposit Protection Service? 2) did he do an inventory, with photographs when you moved in?
If he didn’t put your money into a deposit scheme you can sue him for multiples of your deposit. An inventory will show the state of the place when you moved in. But anyway, he can’t try and sue you for new carpets after years in the property, it’s fair wear and tear. As PPs have said, you are in a strong position, don’t let him bully and intimidate you.

This in spades.

I am also a landlord and almost always leave on good terms with my tenants. However one tenant did a flit after two months, I suspect he had failed a work probation. We went to arbitration over the deposit which involved a huge amount of work. I did not get rent for the remainder of this six months fixed term. I did not get anything for candle wax all over a new carpet. All I got was £6.50 which was my bus fare for retrieving perishables from the fridge.

Dispute it. After 10 years I would expect nothing and certainly expect to re carpet and repaint. And if he has failed to lodge the deposit properly, has failed to give you annual gas safe certs, has no evidence that he gave you a right to rent leaflet, or does not have an up to date EICR or EPC, he has lost before he has started. Insist you want to go to arbitration.

Tiredbehyondbelief · 01/12/2023 17:39

When we moved out after 10 years our estate agent had the decency to tell us that any damage would be minor wear and tear. As a rental property is meant to be refurbished every 5 years we had nothing to pay and got all our deposit back. Please call Shelter for advice. I don't think you have a case to answer

Ratfinkstinkypink · 01/12/2023 17:46

Viviennemary · 01/12/2023 16:31

You really need to get permission before you decorate or put in new carpets. Not sure what the courts will say. why didn't you just ask first. But I doubt you will need to pay 7.5 k. I agree get advice,

Where does it say the OP put in new carpets? She says she painted over scuffs on leaving the tenancy, she says nothing about redecorating.

Original poster
AgnesR · 01/12/2023 17:50

There isn't anything I am not saying...
There is a long catalogue they have itemised but all of which would be covered by redecoration. All cosmetic. Breakages such as a broken hook on back of bedroom door. Missing very cheapest of blinds (was mouldy and I threw it) - had alerted them to the damp in the past . Missing bulb.

We didn't paint anything while we lived there, or change carpets. We repainted some badly worn by kids areas in the exact same paint they had used (had asked nice maintenance man, now retired, which paint it was).

My husband and his friend who is a professional decorator spent a whole day painting, I feel we did more than necessary on that front. They are saying there are areas that weren't completed - but actually we didnt need to repaint the cream walls at all as it was wear and tear anyway.

The place didn't look as smart as when we moved in 10 years ago but I felt it was more than reasonably left for wear and tear.

We are not living in the areas mentioned. He does have a huge portfolio and his own office to manage them. I think you are right and they are hoping for judgement in default or that I will be scared into settlling.I think they probably do do this a lot.

Sorry if I have missed some questions, things are full on at home and people are needing me here. Logically I can fight it all, I just feel so anxious in my body now, and knowing the time it will take when I have very limited spoons as it is.

Will read all suggestions again when kids asleep (about 2am!).

They decorated it all and rented it for a lot more money to next tenant. They are charging for loss of rental income, and interest. I think they took their time doing the work and are trying to pass costs on to me.

I will go to CAB next week fingers crossed!

Thank you again and sorry to those who have had a hard time too, and also thank you to the nice reasonable landlords!

OP posts:
Bilbo63 · 01/12/2023 17:52

My landlord owns vast numbers of properties but is not FW. There are actually a few of these landlords out there. My landlords properties have been in the family for decades, they don't sell, only add to their portfolio. They are notorious for trying to keep deposits and then letting the property in exactly the same consition. They don't need the money - the greed floors me.