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Original poster

Taken to court by ex landlord for decoration etc of property after 10 yr tenancy

261 replies

AgnesR · 01/12/2023 15:07

Hi
Would love any advice or support or pointers towards help
I am so upset because my ex landlord is taking me to court for £7500 for a load of repairs, new carpets, worktops etc, plus loss of rental income after my 10 year tenancy.(Rent was £750!)
I always paid on time, asked very little of them
All the carpets were old and thin when I moved in
There was of course wear and tear after a family lived somewhere for 10 years
but it was totally clean, totally emptied (of course), and we did lots of painting over scuffs. Several people helped and I honestly thought we left it in a (more than) fair state for them to do the necessary work after a 10 year tenancy (to good, polite tenants!)
I am already under so much stress with severely disabled child, my own health issues, finances etc and this is the last straw!
Thank you

OP posts:
newwings · 03/12/2023 14:18

Laugh in their face, the amount of finders fees alone you've saved them by living there for 10 years.

Original poster
AgnesR · 03/12/2023 14:19

@bemusedmoose hope you can get him over the deposit!!

OP posts:
newwings · 03/12/2023 14:20

randomstress · 01/12/2023 15:28

The deposit schemes absolutely don't side landlords.
It is highly unlikely that you would have lost any of your deposit for wear and tear issues in that length of tenancy.
Is it to late to request your deposit back? You need to get some legal advice, home insurance often also has a legal helpline.

If you did dispute it would be sat there safe and sound in stale mate. The TDS does not favour landlords at all.

Original poster
AgnesR · 03/12/2023 14:22

Unfortunately from what I can see you only have 3 months and we are way of time. I assumed it then reverted to landlord??

OP posts:
Original poster
AgnesR · 03/12/2023 14:24

Or maybe it is stting there, but they will no longer adjudicate? I will find out!

OP posts:
RocketIceLollie · 03/12/2023 15:14

SamuelDJackson · 03/12/2023 09:31

RocketIceLollie · Today 07:49
It depends on the repair clause. Is it "keep in good repair" or "put in good repair"? Very different standard of expectation between those two terms legally.

They can write what they want as a phrase in a contract, but many times landlords will add terms that are not legally enforceable and will lose when challenged. (Ive certainly had a few try add clauses that contravene the law - one place we looked at had something in their contract about giving them a right to unrestricted access for any reason at all times, which we pointed out was a contravention of the law and legally unenforcable)
Put in good repair would normally mean return to original standard (which the OP did with cleaning and painting over scuffs), it could in no way be construed as replacing kitchen and carpets.

The point here is they are trying to charge the OP for betterment of their property when they either haven't maintained or replaced fittings for 10 years over her tenancy. Shes their ex tenant, not the National Lottery.
Good luck with this OP - legally they are trying it on, and morally they are scum.

Carpets come under the terms of fixtures and fittings. So if it says put in fixtures and fittings in good condition then yes it applies to carpets. Lease T&C's are written under the Landlord & Tenant Act so it's pretty well regulated. It goes without saying to read the terms and ask any questions if you are unsure (solicitor legal terminology can be difficult to understand) before you sign the tenancy and retain a copy of the signed agreement so to avoid the landlord adding anything in the lease.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 03/12/2023 18:17

Carpets come under the terms of fixtures and fittings. So if it says put in fixtures and fittings in good condition then yes it applies to carpets. Lease T&C's are written under the Landlord & Tenant Act so it's pretty well regulated.

The tenancy has been for 10 years, so there isn't much the landlord could get for carpets, or redecoration.

CleansUpButWouldPreferNotTo · 03/12/2023 18:19

newwings · 03/12/2023 14:18

Laugh in their face, the amount of finders fees alone you've saved them by living there for 10 years.

Exactly - I was so grateful to have good tenants who didn't default on the rent and trash the place like on those nightmare tenants tv programmes, obviously I'd work with them as they were decent people and this was their home. I'm really sorry for people who have crappy landlords - before I could afford to buy I was renting and at the end of a 6 month lease the landlord not only put up the rent but said I now had to pay all the utilities too. Water and electric had been included before, so this was a double increase and he wanted me to pay for the communal areas too. It was a ground floor shop and two flats one on the first and one on the top floor - I wonder if he was also charging the other tenants for the communal areas ie the staircases? They were grimy and bulbs going out often took weeks to be replaced.

I gave notice, was lucky and found a decent house-share, and swore if I ever became a landlord that I'd treat the tenants properly. It's only right - it's their home, and I'm still making enough to eke out my income!

almostfamousme · 03/12/2023 20:53

RocketIceLollie · 03/12/2023 15:14

Carpets come under the terms of fixtures and fittings. So if it says put in fixtures and fittings in good condition then yes it applies to carpets. Lease T&C's are written under the Landlord & Tenant Act so it's pretty well regulated. It goes without saying to read the terms and ask any questions if you are unsure (solicitor legal terminology can be difficult to understand) before you sign the tenancy and retain a copy of the signed agreement so to avoid the landlord adding anything in the lease.

Show quote history

That's not how assured shorthold tenancies work. Any fixtures and fttings that come with the house are the responsibility of the landlord. It's never the tenant's job to relace a worn out carpet that's at least ten years old. It doesn't matter if the tenancy agreement says something different; it's an unenforceable clause.
Unenforceable clauses are fairly common in tenancy agreements; they rely on tenants not knowing their rights.

almostfamousme · 03/12/2023 20:57

@CleansUpButWouldPreferNotTo you are lovely. I wish you owned all the houses.

Heidi0307a12 · 04/12/2023 09:19

As an ex-landlady myself, and having had tenants from hell, you sound like an ideal tenant to me! Just the fact you left the place clean and tidy would be a huge tick ✔️ for me. Depending on what exactly he's suing you for, the landlord is taking the p#ss here with regards to the carpets! That's called 'maintenance', and that's just something landlord's have to pay for! If you've left them clean and tidy (had them professionally cleaned), that's all you need to do.

Whilst some landlord's are reasonable, some aren't... they seem to think that their 'business' takes care of, and pays for, itself! I'm afraid that's not how ot works... they still need to redecorate, update carpets/flooring, make general repairs, etc. Like any property, over the year's things need doing... the whole benefit of renting is that it's not 'your problem' it's the landlord's, that's why rents are so bloody expensive, you live in the house effectively "worry-free'... everything is the landlord's responsibility, it's THEIR business, THEIR house!

Original poster
AgnesR · 06/12/2023 14:53

I have just found out he does it to loads of people, and he did it recently in very similar circumstances to mine where the tenant won! Taking heart in that!

OP posts:
PropertyManager · 06/12/2023 15:01

If you can find the case details from the court of the ones where the tennant won, if the circumstances are similar you can present that case as a legal precedent, strengthening your position.

Kissmystarfish · 06/12/2023 17:19

AgnesR · 03/12/2023 13:19

Thanks for the recent comments.

I replied to them in writing saying that we did not owe them anything as all their allegations are wear and tear after a 10 year tenancy, so I don't think not claiming the deposit means admitting liability. Online it says you can use the deposit scheme or alternatively go to court, and I will be counterclaiming. I was feeling harrassed by them (see below) and they were the powerful party, and I had health issues and an unwell child needing my full time attention 24/7, so I am okay with explaining this to Court. (Kicking myself now that I didn't use mydeposits but as I say the online reviews by tenants are awful, and I didn't have time to engage with a crap company as already in so many battles tryting to get medical and educational provision for child).

I feel confident that I can deny every item they have listed, including servicing a burglar alarm as from what I see online that is their responsibility if they install one.

Subject to professional advice this week I will be counterclaiming for

  • my deposit in full
  • emotional distress due to harassment (they were sending by email their demand for 5K every day for weeks actually months, now bumped by 2K due to apparent loss of rental income which is total bollocks as I know from neigbours that they left it empty for ages, then totally refurbed and I have screenshots of the listing with new kitchen/bathroom etc)
  • Discrimination under Equality Act for denying assistance dog for severely disabled child.

Honestly now I feel I would rather go to court than let this go if they want to pull out, as I want my deposit back!

Edited

They CAN deny an assurance dog. It’s not always illegal. You’d need advice from a solicitor for that.

Original poster
AgnesR · 06/12/2023 17:24

Thanks both.

That’s good re using the precedent, I have all the info. They are alleging things in mine that got struck out by judge as illegal in a previous case of theirs, such as loss of rent for a couple of months.

Thank you for the info re assistance dog. I’m out of time for a discrimination claim anyway.

OP posts:
Cookiemonsterz · 06/12/2023 20:34

I am really routing for you here OP! You’re going to be OK with this! I’m so glad you’re sticking up for yourself.

Original poster
AgnesR · 06/12/2023 22:38

Thank you so much @Cookiemonsterz !

OP posts:
ScribblingPixie · 06/12/2023 23:09

You've got this, OP!

Original poster
AgnesR · 07/12/2023 00:54

Thank you @ScribblingPixie !
Yes the things claimed for were almost identical, and the tenant had been there considerally less time, and it nearly all got rejected! (vs my landlord!)

OP posts:
Changed18 · 07/12/2023 08:10

So not only is there a precedent there’s also a pattern of your landlord hassling former tenants. Seems well worth mentioning.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 07/12/2023 12:03

Changed18 · 07/12/2023 08:10

So not only is there a precedent there’s also a pattern of your landlord hassling former tenants. Seems well worth mentioning.

I absolutely agree, and in fact you can if it's a pattern, report to the attorney general to have him listed as a vexatious litigant.

Needmoresleep · 07/12/2023 12:07

It is very likely that as well as charging tenants for repairs he is also keeping the receipts and using them as deductible expenses on his tax return.

Given what you know about other cases and his behaviour towards you, when it is all over it might be worth a letter to the tax authorities sharing what you know. Most landlords are decent. Most tenants are decent. None of us like those who erode trust in what should be straightforward relationship.

Original poster
AgnesR · 08/12/2023 15:11

Thank you so much 🙏

OP posts:
CleansUpButWouldPreferNotTo · 11/12/2023 09:38

AgnesR · 08/12/2023 15:11

Thank you so much 🙏

Wishing you luck, @AgnesR and hoping you'll pop back to tell us how things are going.

All the best to you and your family for a happy holiday and great times in your new home.

Original poster
AgnesR · 11/12/2023 18:00

Oh thank you so much @CleansUpButWouldPreferNotTo !
That's so kind, and I will definitely update. Fingers crossed to me! Hope you have happy holidays too!

OP posts: