I need help to defend myself against a Prohibited Steps Order

[Toomuchwine89]

I met my ex husband when I had four children, and was with him for 6 years. When we'd been together for a year, we bought a house together, although it's only him on the mortgage. We married 9 months after buying the house (summer 2018).

He was emotionally/verbally abusive, controlling, punched walls etc. The abuse was towards me and the children (mostly his non bio children) and was getting worse. I have video evidence of this and text messages.

I tried talking to him many times but nothing changed, so on the advice of Women's Aid, I fled to a refuge while we was at work in November last year.

He love bombed the hell out of me and begged me to come home, but I said I couldn't unless he seriously changed, which could take months. Obviously that was too much effort so he instructed a solicitor instead. Around this time I reported his behaviour towards the children and me to the police and they advised me to obtain a non molestation order, which I did, and it has been granted for 12 months.

I've now been served with a court hearing for a Child Arrangement Order, which I was expecting. However, he has also applied for a prohibited steps order, to stop us leaving the local area. He doesn't know this, but I had indeed applied to a council 2.5 hours away for housing. Not to stop contact, but to start afresh, and avoid having to see him around etc.

His bio children aren't in school yet so wouldn't have to change schools and they don't really have a relationship with his family. He has even written in his court application that because of his job, he couldn't have the children overnight in the week.

How do I best go about defending this order? I genuinely believe it's about control rather than the welfare of the children.

This seems like good advice. ^^

is the house in Norfolk still an option OP? I was coming on to say it seems it would be good to take the house offered, or at least go towards that, while also researching work/childcare/schools/support etc local to that property. Even call companies/job centre, set up an interview if you can even if future dates.

And a suggested plan for possible supervised contact - would it be feasible to bring them back EOW, or is there a contact Centre halfway? A family member (of yours) who might be able to help with transport? (Not because this should be outcome but to prevent him characterizing you as someone who vindictively wants to keep children from him).

Try to create a compelling, evidenced plan for how your life could work there. Describe impact of children of being in refuge.

I’m afraid I agree about getting a second opinion where the solicitor is concerned. The advice you’ve been given sounds very ‘by the book’ but not very personal given the ins and outs of the situation.

Lots of firms (including really good ones) will give some advice on the phone or a first meeting for free. You call, make sure you get through to the right dept, explain the headlines and the timeframe for your meeting with CAFCASS and ask for their pov.

You could also post on here specifically for legal advice. Also contact any and all legal clinics in the area to see if any can advise. They will want a timeline of events and facts so it might be worth going through and creating one this weekend so you have one ready to send.

Get as many sources of input as possible - you’ll hear the same things again and again I imagine, but some might have a new bit of info or a different strategy. You’ll start to get a feel for who is going to fight best on your behalf. When calling around ask if the firm has any solicitors specialist in domestic violence - not all family lawyers are specialists in this area.

good luck - you’re doing amazingly and you’re very brave.

He can't stop you moving but he may be able to get an order stopping you from taking the children with you.

The court may grant an interim order to stop you moving while the case is ongoing, but he is unlikely to get a permanent order provided you can show that you have good reasons for moving and have thought through contact arrangements.

As a PP said, everything through the lens of the children. Why is it in their best interests to move to Norfolk: relationship with your family members there, more space, you've been offered a house which will be less cramped than where you are now. Are the older children keen to move?

And have a proper plan - what are employment prospects like in Norfolk? What schools will the children go to, or nursery provision, or will you be a SAHM until the younger ones are at school? How are you going to facilitate contact with their dad? If you have evidence of the abuse are you saying you want no contact (unlikely), indirect contact only, supervised contact only? At a contact centre or supervised by a family member or friend in the community? If contact is ordered for 3 hours on a Saturday afternoon are you going to drive your 3yo and 22mo from Norfolk to contact centre and back again? Who will look after the older children while you do it? Or would you meet in the middle, and if so where? Can you look up contact centres which are an hour-ish from your current place and an hour-ish from him?

You can ask for a Specific Issue Order allowing you to move the children to Norfolk (the other side of the coin to the PSO). It is more likely to gain approval if you have a clear idea of what things will look like and can say "I am proposing to move to [district], I do want the younger children to have a relationship with their father if this can be safely managed and therefore suggest contact centre X, Y or Z, at this place, for 2 / 3 hours on a Saturday / Sunday afternoon. The older children will do ABC while this happens. I will ensure that father is informed promptly of any medical attention they need and given copies of any nursery reports if relevant." You can suggest using an app like My Family Wizard if things have not reached the stage where you only communicate through solicitors, which might be the case if you have a non molestation order in place.

In relation to the previous move, tell Cafcass exactly what you've told us - that you didn't move previously until the older children's father had stopped bothering to see them and that you supported them having contact even when it had to be supervised, and when you did move it was within the same county. If you feel it would be helpful you can ask for the previous social services documents to be disclosed into current proceedings, although the judge may or may not think they're relevant.

I know he can't stop me, just the children. But come on. They're going to be with me, aren't they?

Sorry, this is just so much right now, I can't process it all :( really stressed after my nightmares last night.

I won't be meeting with him, no. I don't want anything to do with him. And I'd do a contact centre half way or near me. No reason for him not to drive. He does it for a living. The older two don't want to move.

I don't think the information about the other children's dad is relevant at all! It's only my ex that keeps bringing it up in his court paperwork. Then again, he always was obsessed with him. Apparently I still "fancied" him, even though I haven't seen him for years...

Also - I don't feel like I can look at schools, nurseries, jobs etc because I have no idea where the council will house me! It could be Cambridge, Suffolk, Norfolk...

Has he ever threatened to take the children away? It’s such a common tactic of abusive partners when fleeing domestic abuse and I think PSO orders can be granted in these circumstances.

That isn't how the courts look at it. If they order that the children can't move, you will have two choices - stay where you are or send them to live with your ex.

I know

No. Just said in an argument once "don't ever think about keeping my kids away from me"

@Toomuchwine89 You absolutely should NOT have had to pay for your Non-Mol! Please please call the NCDV they are experts on Legal Aid for Domestic Abuse and if nothing else, offer great advice. For free.

Yep I got one for this reason. It's permanent (or until further order)

I definitely did, because of my savings.

The only thing I could do was apply for legal aid but have to make a contribution due to savings. That came out at £4200!! So I paid the solicitor privately and it was less than half of that. That was a different solicitor too, so I've been told by two now.

But give custody to who? In my situation, dad is sofa surfing at a friend's house so it's not like he could have our DD

Why are you and others on this thread distracting from the matters at hand by repeating incorrect information

Your own image says exactly why OP is not entitled to legal aid, she has the financial resources, she has said multiple times she has savings, can you actually read it?

All lawyers are not equal. I have had 5.

No 1 was shit and scared me. Never went back after the initial appointment.

We shared one when we divorced. (France) he did reasonable negotiation.

No 3 just never responded in a timely manner.

No 4 - 9 years of my ex dragging me through court. She was brilliant. Even with me as my own worst enemy.

No 5. - we moved. New jurisdiction. ExH lost his parental rights on first court visit. Unimaginably good outcome. She was kick arse.

If you're lawyer is not kicking arse they are not what you need.

And to reiterate what others have said. You need to tell the story, and demonstrate it with facts and proof, how this move will be in the kids best interest.

So tell us now..,

This is in the children best interest because it will keep the 6? Kids together.

It will allow us to have affordable housing where the kids are suitably housed. They will no longer have to share rooms.

It will allow like me to support the children by returning to work. I have been offered this opportunity/training....

The eldest kids can access this school which is better than the local choice

The next kids can go here cxxxx

Etc. Letters from schools or whatever confirming conditional places

We have local family help.

Add opportunities relevant to your children.

Meeting centre here for seeing dad. Can see his kids every x. And x percent of holidays.

Lay it all out.

Thank you.

I'm struggling with this as I'll be taking my eldest out of grammar school, and housing is more expensive down south. It's so shit.

Obviously the needing to get out of refuge thing is correct but he'll just say "you can get a council house here then".

:(

But you can’t just get a council house right? It’s taking months for anything suitable to become available and that’s with the flexibility to move away.

You're right. They're like rocking horse shit. The last one I bid on, I came 58th - and that's with us being classed as homeless.

And he doesn't care about that. He will adore the fact that I'm in refuge because we're not allowed to drink, or have visitors. So no nights in with the girls to drink vats of wine and slag off men. No drunken shags (not that I was planning any, but when we were together he was utterly obsessed and seemed to think that every other man in the world wanted me). Of course he doesn't want me out of here!

We can't stay out overnight anywhere either

Of course he doesn’t care about you being inadequately housed. He’s an abusive cunt.
The judge will care though. The need for you and all of your children to be housed together with you is an important factor in this case. The court will consider the importance of the relationship between your younger children and their father but also between your younger children and you and your younger children and their older half siblings. If there are no suitable housing options in the county where your ex lives then that is extremely relevant to your case.

Thank you x

There is actually less housing here. It's a much smaller area, and they said that most 4 beds come up in the town I originally left due to the first abusive twat! So they won't house me there.

I didn't realise the judge would care about sibling relationships, or indeed the older siblings. Interesting, as he was a complete bully to my older daughters. My other daughter (almost 7) was 8 months old when I met him. She thinks he is her dad, and has even asked when she will next see him, if he stops shouting. But the cunt hasn't even named her in the court application - just his two bio children. She is going to be absolutely heartbroken, and even "his" children will be confused about it all, surely?!

You definitely need to explain to your middle daughter that your (latest) ex is not her father. She’s not too young for some basic age appropriate sex ed. Sperm + egg = baby stuff plus the legal implications of parenthood.
I’m not a lawyer, but I imagine the court won’t care about preferences and things related to your older kids - so ´they’d love to live near their paternal grandma’ might not be considered relevant. Same for ´they don’t like their ex stepdad very much’.
But ´all the children will be facing continued homelessness if we stay here’ is hugely relevant, and ´older kids are named on the non-molestation order and their address should be kept secret from ex’ might be relevant too.

I'm going to mention to cafcass about my daughter, but if he's still not interested in pursuing contact then yep, I'll have to explain to her the truth.

Move isn't anything to do with paternal side luckily. But it's definitely beyond "they didn't like him much". I'd have stayed if it was usual pre teen arguments! He was abusive to them and they were scared of him.

All of the children are named on the non molestation order.

This is such shit timing! I've tried to get in touch with the Council to explain my predicament about the house but they haven't responded yet. And tbh, they surely can't keep it "on hold" forever, and they're not going to think I'm in that desperate need of housing if I turn it down.

I really appreciate your replies btw :)