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Original poster

I need help to defend myself against a Prohibited Steps Order

88 replies

Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 07:37

I met my ex husband when I had four children, and was with him for 6 years. When we'd been together for a year, we bought a house together, although it's only him on the mortgage. We married 9 months after buying the house (summer 2018).

He was emotionally/verbally abusive, controlling, punched walls etc. The abuse was towards me and the children (mostly his non bio children) and was getting worse. I have video evidence of this and text messages.

I tried talking to him many times but nothing changed, so on the advice of Women's Aid, I fled to a refuge while we was at work in November last year.

He love bombed the hell out of me and begged me to come home, but I said I couldn't unless he seriously changed, which could take months. Obviously that was too much effort so he instructed a solicitor instead. Around this time I reported his behaviour towards the children and me to the police and they advised me to obtain a non molestation order, which I did, and it has been granted for 12 months.

I've now been served with a court hearing for a Child Arrangement Order, which I was expecting. However, he has also applied for a prohibited steps order, to stop us leaving the local area. He doesn't know this, but I had indeed applied to a council 2.5 hours away for housing. Not to stop contact, but to start afresh, and avoid having to see him around etc.

His bio children aren't in school yet so wouldn't have to change schools and they don't really have a relationship with his family. He has even written in his court application that because of his job, he couldn't have the children overnight in the week.

How do I best go about defending this order? I genuinely believe it's about control rather than the welfare of the children.

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 07:40

Children are 3 and 22 months - youngest one still breastfeeds through the day and night, just for extra info

OP posts:
Maybepossibly22 · 04/02/2023 07:43

So sorry you are going through this OP.

Can I suggest speaking to rights of women? rightsofwomen.org.uk They have a helpline to assist in navigating through the law so may be very helpful in your situation.

sending Flowers

Mindymomo · 04/02/2023 07:44

Are you still in refuge, can they help you with advice or can you get to see a Solicitor.

Pgjp129 · 04/02/2023 07:46

From experience of family court, it seems from what you have said that it would probably be best to get a solicitor to assist- because of abuse you should be able to get legal aid. I'm no expert and each case is different, but also sounds like cafcass would be instructed by the judge also.

Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 07:50

We're still in refuge, and I have a solicitor but it's going to cost a fortune! I can't get legal aid as I had saved up an escape fund before I left.

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 07:50

CAFCASS interview is on Friday x

OP posts:
TheVanguardSix · 04/02/2023 07:53

It’s likely the PSO will be granted (unbelievably, a judge was going to issue one in my own case… and my ex is in prison for sexually abusing our daughter! No words).

Is there a contact order in place already or is this your first attempt at drawing one up? It’ll be difficult for you to convince a judge that it was absolutely necessary to move to a council flat 2.5 hours away without it being work related. Mental health is going to be a tough card to play without a letter of support from your GP who’s been actively treating you for stress in relation to your family breakdown.
It’s really hard. I’m on your side, believe me.

I don’t know what the law is now but years ago, you could move up to 100 miles away without consent of the other parent. What’s the law on that now? Don’t know where in the UK you are so that too will shape the law on this.

If there’s an order already in place, do you have a Lives With (with contact) order or Shared Custody order?

LadyHarmby · 04/02/2023 07:55

Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 07:50

We're still in refuge, and I have a solicitor but it's going to cost a fortune! I can't get legal aid as I had saved up an escape fund before I left.

Use the escape fund. This is a massive part of your escape - getting yourself and the children away from him geographically.

Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:03

I am using it. I'm going to have to x

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:06

I'm in England. This is the first thing in court. I know they're likely to grant it, but it makes no sense :( I do have a little bit of family support where I'm planning to go.

The council won't let us have anything less than a 4 bedroom house, which are very hard to come by. I never imagined we'd be in refuge for a year or more. We've actually been offered a house in Norfolk :( such a shame we can't go.

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:14

This is his main argument, unless he seeks more legal advice by then (which I don't think is right he should use this against me, but that's a narcissist for you)...

Before him, I was married to someone else, who I had the other DC with. He was very abusive, in every way, and abused drugs and alcohol. Just awful. When he left me, I was absolutely terrified of him still, so let him have contact with the DC, no question. As soon as he realised that I was moving on and "enjoying" my child free time, he saw the DC less and less.

Stuff happened, and social services got involved. They insisted on supervised contact. I agreed for his mum to do it. He didn't usually turn up, but they liked seeing their grandma. In the end their grandma had enough, said she couldn't do it anymore as she had bad health, and didn't understand why it had to be supervised anyway. I was with the man in question during all of this. He knows all of this. He supported me through it!

After about a year of DC's dad not bothering with them, we moved. Literally 45 minutes away... Same district, same council, same county.

Ex husband has written in his court application that in the past, I "moved far away from the dad just to stop him seeing the kids" and he's scared I'll do the same again...

OP posts:
YoungMouse · 04/02/2023 08:19

Try and move before it gets to court. Ask if you can be moved to a refuge in the area you want to live in. That's what I did (I moved 3 hours away to be with my family). The legal advice I sought made it clear that they can stop you from moving away but it's very rare that they force someone to move once they've already moved.

BridetoBee · 04/02/2023 08:24

If he hasn’t got the prohibited steps order surely you just go and make them available for weekend contact?

inloveandmarried · 04/02/2023 08:25

YoungMouse · 04/02/2023 08:19

Try and move before it gets to court. Ask if you can be moved to a refuge in the area you want to live in. That's what I did (I moved 3 hours away to be with my family). The legal advice I sought made it clear that they can stop you from moving away but it's very rare that they force someone to move once they've already moved.

This

Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:25

My solicitor told me NOT to move as the judge could order the children back and even give my ex husband residence. He wouldn't even want that! It's bonkers.

The refuge staff have offered to transfer us before but I've always turned it down. Apparently there are no refuges like our current one. And there's just too many of us to be sharing bathrooms/kitchens etc. The older kids would really struggle.

OP posts:
Allytheapple · 04/02/2023 08:26

@TheVanguardSix there are no words so sorry you’ve experienced that.

Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:27

Also court is very soon because the cunt said it needed to be done quickly 🫤

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 04/02/2023 08:27

Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:06

I'm in England. This is the first thing in court. I know they're likely to grant it, but it makes no sense :( I do have a little bit of family support where I'm planning to go.

The council won't let us have anything less than a 4 bedroom house, which are very hard to come by. I never imagined we'd be in refuge for a year or more. We've actually been offered a house in Norfolk :( such a shame we can't go.

If you've been offered a house and it's taken over a year to even get an offer the court will take that into consideration.

LittleLegoWoman · 04/02/2023 08:27

A question for your solicitor OP:
What happens if you take the house in Norfolk now, on the grounds that it’s the first that’s become available that’s suitable and you’ve been in refuge a long time. Then when he asks for the PSO in court, it will be a case of trying to get his bio kids back to his area, he has no say over you or over your other children. And he can’t be resident parent because of work and you’d hope they’d take his violence into account too.

Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:28

At this stage I seriously think they need to be supervised, and definitely not going overnight. It's so difficult.

In one ear I'm getting "you must safeguard the children" and in the other I'm getting "children need equal time with their father". I feel like I'm going insane

OP posts:
TheVanguardSix · 04/02/2023 08:29

I mean, it’s a no brainer. Grab the house! And here’s the thing that will absolutely be taken into consideration: The needs and welfare of your children. They need housing and this is your best shot at it. This will be understood. I think if you’ve been offered housing locally and declined, then it’s a bit more of a battle in court. Either way, take the house. Do what’s right and best for you and your kids first and foremost.
Also, you’re not removing the children from school or leaving the UK. This will be taken into consideration.
I’m not from the UK, though I’ve been here 25 years. They slap PSOs on people like me very quickly because I’m considered a ‘flight risk’- to use the judge’s terminology. I’ve been divorced twice and have had to face the PSO battle in both cases. So I should have looked at this more from your perspective than my own. Sorry about that.

My thoughts? Save your money. I’ve only ever self represented and I’ve gotten what I need! Know your rights. Know your ex’s rights (and responsibility!) and above all, keep the Children’s Act at the forefront of your mind. If you can think of this less as a battle, a fight, and focus on carving out a stable life for you and your children, CAFCASS and the judge will sit up and listen.
Do you have Spotify? Loads of amazing podcasts out there on self representing. Save your money. Self rep! Educate yourself by listening to podcasts hosted by solicitors, barristers, psychologists. Arm yourself with knowledge and don’t be scared. Easier said than done.

This WILL pass. 💐

YoungMouse · 04/02/2023 08:29

Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:25

My solicitor told me NOT to move as the judge could order the children back and even give my ex husband residence. He wouldn't even want that! It's bonkers.

The refuge staff have offered to transfer us before but I've always turned it down. Apparently there are no refuges like our current one. And there's just too many of us to be sharing bathrooms/kitchens etc. The older kids would really struggle.

I'll add my situation was a bit different as my son was 3 months old and breastfed, but if you have documented evidence of abuse I'd be very disappointed if the judge ordered them to live with him. Ask for a fact finding hearing (btw a lot of solicitors are really shit. I had a solicitor tell me to start contact as the judge will order it anyway - I refused, got a new solicitor, and had an indirect contact order instated based on his abuse). Try the rights of women phoneline for family court advice. They're a feminist organisation and will offer a second opinion.

MrNook · 04/02/2023 08:29

I'd be getting legal advice to find out if you can move now before the court hearing and the PSO is granted, I'd go to the house in Norfolk you've been offered

MrNook · 04/02/2023 08:30

Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:25

My solicitor told me NOT to move as the judge could order the children back and even give my ex husband residence. He wouldn't even want that! It's bonkers.

The refuge staff have offered to transfer us before but I've always turned it down. Apparently there are no refuges like our current one. And there's just too many of us to be sharing bathrooms/kitchens etc. The older kids would really struggle.

Sorry hadn't refreshed page

Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 04/02/2023 08:30

That's a good point. I will certainly ask.

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