Autistic son interviewed without appropriate adult

[taylorwhite883]

Hi my son who is 19 and autistic was not provided with an appropriate adult during the interview when he was arrested for breach of a restraining order which he confessed to in the interview.

He declined a solicitor at the police station so he had no support from anyone at the station during the custodial process and interview.

He was seen by a nurse shortly before the interview and then she gave the green light for him to be interviewed.

He is currently RUI and I was wondering what are the chances the confession could be excluded under S78 of PACE since this is a clear breach of PACE?

England.

Thanks.

@rogueone Then why did the nurse assess him as not being vulnerable? ALL vulnerable suspects should be allocated an appropriate adult. "Custody nurses should advocate for detainees who are mentally vulnerable and ensure appropriate safeguards are in place, where necessary." All autistic people are considered to be vulnerable, if they didn't know that then they didn't do their job properly.

Have you consulted a solicitor?

@orbitalcrisis
Not if she didn’t know he was autistic. If he didn’t tell her then it might not have been obvious. He was probably presenting as anxious but, then again, most people in custody are anxious. Vulnerability can be a bit of a grey scale, especially in forensic settings.

She did know because my son said he told the custody sergeant that he was autistic on arrival at the police station and also he said the nurse mentioned it before taking his tempreture and blood pressure and then said to the officer that he is ready to interviewed.

If the case gets sent to the CPS then maybe they will see there could be an issue here but time will tell I guess.

None of them can help because he is released under investigation right now.

They took his national insurance number and told us to contact them back if we get a court summons through the post.

The issue isn't his autism. It is if he has capacity to make decisions for himself. Does your son have a learning disability as part of his profile? Does he require other people to make decisions for him? If not, then he is allowed to decline a solicitor.

If she just took his temperature and blood pressure then she did not do her job properly according to the link rogueone shared. I think some people here are confusing vulnerability and capacity, your son has the capacity to understand the interview but should have an appropriate adult with him due to his vulnerability.

@JennieTheZebra That is true if the nurse hadn't known but would still be grounds for having the confession put aside, all it would do was save the nurse from a formal reprimand. If the interview was not conducted in accordance with the law, any confession made during that interview cannot be used as evidence.

@orbitalcrisis
I just read the rest of the article posted (I'm a MH nurse and so have a login, but custody isn't my area) and according to it it's the custody sergeant that has to decide on whether or not an appropriate adult is necessary.

"...While nurses can recommend the need for an appropriate adult to be present, ultimately this is the custody sergeant's decision (Wyatt et al 2011)."

We have no idea whether or not the nurse recommended an AA-only what the DS says.

@JennieTheZebra If it was recommended and ignored, the interview was not lawful. If it was not recommended, the interview was not lawful. It doesn't really matter who is at fault or whether nobody is, autistic adults are supposed to be given appropriate adults when they are interviewed and this wasn't done so the confession should be put aside.

OP, this looks like a good source for the information you need. The interview should not have commenced without an appropriate adult as soon as they were aware of your son's autism. They should have appointed one it even if they just suspected autism. autisminjustice.org/discussion%20&%20comments/police%20&%20criminal%20evidence%20act-1.html

Well the issue is that he admitted something. He can retract the confession. But as others have pointed out if he posted something it will be traceable.

They would probably have seized the computer anyway based on the allegation by a protected person. I expect the complainant had a screenshot of the post. Which could be doctored so they need to trace the post. The computer will be used to establish evidence of allegations along with other digital information. A confession or denial could be a moot issue if evidence establishes the facts.

A restraining order means someone is being protected from abuse. Online abuse is just as harmful as other forms. Following up on allegations is the right thing to do.

Do everything you can to keep him out of prison op!!

Or maybe he could just stop violating the law?

It's not the first time his computer was seized. Autism is not an excuse!!!

@Miajk yes I know all that! As does the op!

She needs legal advice not mumsnet
She needs to limit his internet use going forwards
She needs to supervise him more closely for future use

Do all she can....cocos believe me he WILL NOT do well in mainstream prison

Ok if he told them on arrival I would put that into complaint territory. I suggest you contact force professional standards dept, and possibly also your PCC (google if you don't know who they are). Or I can help if you pm your police force name

getting a solicitor and appropriate adult appointed is not about 'trying to get off'. It's making sure that the correct legal process is being followed and that the person under suspicion is being fairly treated.

Never come to mumsnet for legal advice, people mistake their opinion of 'what's fair' for fact. Consult a solicitor.

Did he have an appropriate adult when he was dealt with for the original offence? To get a restraining order you have to have committed an offence to be issued with one. Normally domestic abuse?
If he had one when he was previously in custody he should have been more likely to have one this time.
As an earlier poster said it's about his capacity to make decisions for himself.
If it goes to court he can instruct a solicitor to represent him there.
If your son has a social worker then they could submit a report to the court stating why he should have an appropriate adult.

I'm not sure that a mental health nurse would be able to undertake a capacity assessment of an autistic adult in custody.

Autism is a social communication disorder. It can be quite difficult to assess a person's ability to process the information, and understand it when they are going to be under a lot of stress in custody.

It's not about whether he has committed the crime, it is about whether the process is followed.

I’m no legal expert, but surely if they’ve seized his computer and there is evidence that he has indeed breached the terms of his restraining order his confession is irrelevant anyway? As they have proof of his guilt?

I think you should be more concerned with how to stop him reoffending (as he appears to be a repeat offender if his computer has been seized twice and he has a restraining order against him, which is notoriously difficult to get) than trying to find ways for him to get away with it.

Your son should have had an appropriate adult with him during interview.

Autism is characterised by differences in social understanding and communication, as well as differences in processing information, and sensory differences. Your son's ability to process information and communicate effectively were likely compromised due to the high stress situation he was in.

The nurse should not have said he was fit for interview and the police should not have conducted an interview with your son without an adult with him. There are guidelines that the police have to follow in this kind of sutuation. I can dig them out tomorrow if it is helpful for you?

I hope you're OK OP. How is your son doing?

Not to great to be honest after it seems at the very least he would be given a community order.

Unfortunately no solicitor can give us advice because he has not been charged with anything yet and many people on here have given mixed messages on whether or not there is a legal issue here because of no appropriate adult and solicitor.

The police told me this morning the case has been sent to the CPS so it's difficult right now but we are keeping our fingers crossed hoping no action is taken against him.

I just want to add someone asked if he has been given an appropriate adult when he was arrested previously and the answer is yes, and that appropriate adult requested a solicitor for him because she felt it was in his best interests to have one.

The fact he refused a solicitor and had no appropriate makes me concerned my son did not understand the questions at the police station and that his false confession could potentially give him a prison sentence.

We will have to wait and see what happens.

The problem is that there isn't a definitive answer to your question. The courts may exclude the confession and anything else said in the interview, but there is no guarantee. Unfortunately, S78 says the court may exclude evidence, not that it must do so. Worse, S77 says that, where the case against a mentally handicapped person depends on a confession and there was no independent person present (i.e. someone other than a police officer) when the confession was made, all that is required is that the jury is warned of the need for caution or, if there is no jury, the court shall treat the case with caution. The confession can still be allowed into evidence.

Regardless of this being in the legal matters area on MN, doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get the legal response you need.

You need to be seeking actual legal advice, not from us on a forum.

Not a lawyer, just wanted to say I understand OP. I have an adult autistic DD, very intelligent, well educated, professionally licensed and working in a very responsible job. But I know that in a stressful situation like this she'd confess to anything if she thought it'd get her her phone/computer back.