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Original poster

Autistic son interviewed without appropriate adult

150 replies

taylorwhite883 · 17/01/2023 03:47

Hi my son who is 19 and autistic was not provided with an appropriate adult during the interview when he was arrested for breach of a restraining order which he confessed to in the interview.

He declined a solicitor at the police station so he had no support from anyone at the station during the custodial process and interview.

He was seen by a nurse shortly before the interview and then she gave the green light for him to be interviewed.

He is currently RUI and I was wondering what are the chances the confession could be excluded under S78 of PACE since this is a clear breach of PACE?

England.

Thanks.

OP posts:
gonnabeok · 17/01/2023 04:06

Not great I would imagine. They employ mental health nurses in police custody units to assess if the person is deemed fit for interview. If they are then no appropriate adult would be used. You would have to prove their professional assessment and judgement was wrong in the first place. Most interviews are visually recorded now. If charged a person is entitled to a copy of their interview recording if they request it. If as person refuses a solicitor that's their decision. You should look at getting legal advice though.

StarInTheHeavens · 17/01/2023 04:12

I 2nd the above poster

StarInTheHeavens · 17/01/2023 04:13

Being autistic isn't an excuse to ignore a restraining order.

MrsTerryPratchett · 17/01/2023 04:21

If he did breach the restraining order, and he's confessed it, presumably if he goes to court he will be found guilty because of the witness testimony of the person who has the restraining order. Wouldn't it be better to plead guilty rather than go to court anyway?

Guavafish1 · 17/01/2023 04:21

OP was asking if an adult should have been present during the police interview not about the actual case.

MrsTerryPratchett · 17/01/2023 04:22

Guavafish1 · 17/01/2023 04:21

OP was asking if an adult should have been present during the police interview not about the actual case.

I understand that but if he would be pleading anyway, why waste the energy and time?

Liorae · 17/01/2023 04:28

Guavafish1 · 17/01/2023 04:21

OP was asking if an adult should have been present during the police interview not about the actual case.

The son is an adult. I'd be more concerned that he was breaching the restraining order rather than trying to get him off with it.

Original poster
taylorwhite883 · 17/01/2023 04:52

MrsTerryPratchett · 17/01/2023 04:21

If he did breach the restraining order, and he's confessed it, presumably if he goes to court he will be found guilty because of the witness testimony of the person who has the restraining order. Wouldn't it be better to plead guilty rather than go to court anyway?

It was nothing to do with direct contact or anything in person the restraining order breach was to do with posting on a online forum that the other person is a member of and Police say this is indirect contact.

He had his PC seized to be sent off to be forensically analyzed and I don't know if they will find evidence of the breach.

I'm just concerned that my son did not understand the questions at the Police station which is why he may have refused a solicitor and became overwhelmed with the situation.

If he had been provided with an appropriate adult then they likely would have likely requested a solicitor for him (which has happened in the past).

This is why I am asking if under these circumstances if there is a good chance a S78 application by a solicitor would be succesful because he told me he has actually not breached the restraining order and that he made a false confession in the hope of getting his computer back right away so it doesn't have to be sent off to be forensically analyzed.

OP posts:
Chippy1234 · 17/01/2023 04:55

So why are you so keen not to get this computer analysed?

MrsTerryPratchett · 17/01/2023 04:58

OK that makes more sense.

He had his PC seized to be sent off to be forensically analyzed and I don't know if they will find evidence of the breach.

If they find he was, the testimony won't be as important as that evidence. Legal advice will be your friend here.

I used to be an appropriate adult but I'm afraid it was for too long ago to be useful. Sorry.

Original poster
taylorwhite883 · 17/01/2023 04:59

Chippy1234 · 17/01/2023 04:55

So why are you so keen not to get this computer analysed?

I never said I was keen, he has had his computer seized in the past and it took 18months to get it back and he didn't want to be without it for that length of time against so he made a false confession hoping he could get it back right away after the interview and not sent off to forensics.

OP posts:
Original poster
taylorwhite883 · 17/01/2023 05:00

MrsTerryPratchett · 17/01/2023 04:58

OK that makes more sense.

He had his PC seized to be sent off to be forensically analyzed and I don't know if they will find evidence of the breach.

If they find he was, the testimony won't be as important as that evidence. Legal advice will be your friend here.

I used to be an appropriate adult but I'm afraid it was for too long ago to be useful. Sorry.

No need to be sorry and understood thanks!

OP posts:
Liorae · 17/01/2023 05:05

seriously? Not the first time his PC has been seized?

Felix01 · 17/01/2023 05:26

I know you love your son , but in the best way possible stop trying to get him off for his offences and instead try to get referral to MH services forensic practitioner. Hes becoming a prolific offender and until he acknowledges that and gets help he will keep on offending. Maybe some time without his computer will do him good, if you keep trying to cover for him get him off the offending will escalate and he will end up in prison/secure services for a long time.

This is not a one off thing if he's had his computer seized before. Autism does not always warrant an appropriate adult, a capacity assessment will have been done.

dolor · 17/01/2023 05:43

StarInTheHeavens · 17/01/2023 04:13

Being autistic isn't an excuse to ignore a restraining order.

This, thank you.

OP, I'm afraid you're probably going to have to wait for the consequences of this to happen. Restraining orders are there for good reason.

boxingdayisbest · 17/01/2023 05:46

How severely your son is impacted by autism would determine if he needed an appropriate adult. Having autism in itself isn't a reason to automatically need another adult.

Even if he'd had an adult, they wouldn't have been able to kind read to know he was confessing just to get his computer back.

Original poster
taylorwhite883 · 17/01/2023 06:00

boxingdayisbest · 17/01/2023 05:46

How severely your son is impacted by autism would determine if he needed an appropriate adult. Having autism in itself isn't a reason to automatically need another adult.

Even if he'd had an adult, they wouldn't have been able to kind read to know he was confessing just to get his computer back.

He gets the severe disability premium component of ESA so he is technically classed as a severely disabled autistic person because he has sensory issues.

I am worried to death that he may be sent to prison for something he actually hasn't done and the solicitors that I contacted cannot help as he is released under investigation right now.

I guess we will just have to see how it plays out and hope for the best.

OP posts:
tonystarksrighthand · 17/01/2023 06:22

Well if he hasn't done it OP then let the police do an analysis on his computer.

WandaWonder · 17/01/2023 06:24

I thought an appropriate was there in body only as in have to not talk at all, just be there as a support person

demotedreally · 17/01/2023 06:31

Op I think this is quite a niche question as not too many will understand pace and AAs etc. Have you used a solicitor for him already, at the time which resulted in the RO? I suggest you need one, I'm not sure you should sit and wait.

When he was arrested / taken into custody the police would have searched his record. I'd have thought his disability should be on the system.(You also need to get it on there if it isn't)

Good luck, it must be a real worry for you and him

rogueone · 17/01/2023 08:06

I think your confusing the benefits he receives with capacity. My husband gets disability allowance and the higher level pip. However he doesn’t lack capacity and still works. Your son was assessed as having capacity and was interviewed on that basis

orbitalcrisis · 17/01/2023 08:25

A nurse is not qualified to make that decision, he absolutely should have allocated an appropriate adult. I know of autistic people in professional jobs who have been given an appropriate adult in a police interview and they were the complainants, one was a serving police officer. Offense or proof aside, the interview and everything said in it should be set aside and will almost certainly not be allowed to be used against him.

orbitalcrisis · 17/01/2023 08:28

"The provision of an Appropriate Adult (AA) is required for all vulnerable suspects in England and Wales, whose role it is to safeguard the interests and rights of vulnerable defendants by ensuring that they are treated in a just manner and are able to participate effectively during an investigation." www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/professional-practice/police-interviews

Note the word ALL. Even mild autism makes you a vulnerable person under the law.

rogueone · 17/01/2023 08:47

Of course nurses are qualified to make that decision what nonsense -
journals.rcni.com/nursing-standard/assessing-an-individuals-fitness-to-be-interviewed-in-police-custody-aop-ns.2017.e10479

gelatogina · 17/01/2023 08:51

Liorae · 17/01/2023 05:05

seriously? Not the first time his PC has been seized?

What was the outcome last time it was seized? Did they find evidence?

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