POA and putting house in trust…

[mrsconradfisher]

Will try to keep this as brief as possible. My Mum passed away on Boxing Day with Vascular Dementia, she was diagnosed a year ago so a very fast deterioration and as a result we never got POA. In the end we never needed it as she died before we managed to find a nursing home for her but we would have had to get Deputyship.
Now trying to get things sorted for my Dad. He is 83 but very “with it” so he thinks it makes sense for me to have POA. I’m an only child so no siblings to work with but he also wants my DH on there too to help with the financial stuff. I’m happy to do it but not entirely sure what it involves, we have an appointment next week but I’d like to have more of an idea before we go. He doesn’t need any support at the moment. He handles money and banks on his own, I call Utility bills etc and he gives permission for them to speak to me if needed. Ideally he’d just like something in place if something did happen but not to actually do anything with it at the moment, is that possible? And if so then do we need both or just financial?
Also the solicitors have suggested putting his house in a trust. I’m not convinced it’s a great idea tbh and I think it will be l
more hassle than it’s worth. They suggested it was to do with avoiding care home fees but surely that can’t be the case or everyone would be doing it?
It’s a tiny bungalow, plus even with his savings it’s below the IT threshold so can’t see the point unless someone can tell me otherwise?

Yes, it is possible to put something in place now. Indeed, now is the best time to do it. I would recommend getting both.

Financial POA can be used while he still has capacity if he consents. It can also be used when he no longer has capacity. It allows you to make decisions about money and property for him. That is all it involves

Health POA only takes effect when he lacks capacity and allows you to make decisions about treatment, medical care, moving to a nursing home and so on.

In both cases, you are required to act in his best interests.

If you want to know more about what it involves, take a look at www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties

Whilst putting a house into trust can be effective in avoiding care home fees, the council may challenge it, particularly if they believe that a major reason for putting it into trust was to avoid care home fees.

Thank you that’s really helpful. So it’s possible to do but hold it without doing anything until if/when it is actually needed?

Im not at all bothered about the house aspect. I think it’s going to be trouble than it’s worth tbh after doing some research. We’ve had an awful year and I just want Dad to be happy.

Sibling had POA for DF. Didn’t do anything with it until he developed Alzheimer’s but was very glad to have had it all in place when he did start to lose himself.

I keep meaning to set it up for DM (they’re divorced) & I keep forgetting. Sibling didn’t want to be in that position again so I said we’d have one each.

Don't bother with the trust. It won't work for inheritance tax or care fees. Just creates a load of admin. I don't know why the solicitor has suggested it.

But your dad should definitely do the POA.

Agree not to bother with the trust. I'm not aware of any benefit in your particular situation. Reluctantly suggesting it sounds like the solicitor is looking to make a bit of extra cash. You can do the POA application yourself, it's really straightforward. The most complicated thing is getting everyone to sign in the right place!

I did wonder that too but this was a cheaper quote for the wills/POA than most other places so it doesn’t seem like they are out to make money?
Don’t you need a solicitor to sign POA anyway? They are only charging £200 each (so £400 for both) compared to the solicitor we originally booked in with which was over £1000! So thought for Dad’s peace of mind it made sense to go with an actual firm that dealt with them?

We did POAs for my parents ourselves. It's really straightforward and the instructions are very clear.

My Dad died without needing it but it's been useful for my Mums finances. We set everything up so that I have access to everything. My Mums still capable but it gives her a lot of peace of mind that I can speak to people on her behalf and can do all her banking. We contacted every organization she deals with such as the Council, the Utility Companies etc and made sure I was listed as being able to deal with anything that needs dealing with.

@mrsconradfisher no, you don't need a solicitor. You need a professional to sign the form, we just used a friend who was a Banker. You could ask your Dad's doctor, who will probably charge but less than the solicitor! The registration fee for each POA is £82, so the solicitor isn't charging a huge mark-up. But POAs are often loss leaders, hence them probably trying to get you to spend more on the Trust.

OP, have a look at the Gov.Uk pages on LPAs Have a read through before deciding to pay a Solicetor. I think it's probably more convenient to do it yourself as well as it being much cheaper. The guidance notes are designed for Jo Public!

I agree. Do it yourself. We set up financial POA for DM with our solicitor and it was close to £500. Stupidly we didn't do the health one at the same time and it's now something we needed to do. My DBro did it online for £82 and was pretty simple apparently.

So it’s possible to do but hold it without doing anything until if/when it is actually needed?

It is not just possible, it is what you have to do. If you wait until it is needed it is too late. You need to have it set up while your father still has capacity.

Don’t you need a solicitor to sign POA anyway?

No, you don't. It needs to be signed by a "certificate provider" - someone who has discussed the POA with your father, checks that he understands what he is doing and that no-one is forcing him to do it. That could be a friend, neighbour or former colleague who has known him for at least 2 years, or someone with relevant professional skills such as his GP or a solicitor.

I also agree with you doing the POAs yourselves. We did ones for my MIL - just complete them online, print them off, get them signed - this is the tricky bit because it can be confusing who signs which part. Make sure you follow the instructions that come with the form.
Here’s the link. www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/make-lasting-power
It costs £82 for each POA - Financial and Health & Welfare.

I agree, get the POA. I'd do both financial and health and welfare, as you never know what will happen, and it means you can retain some control in terms of doing what you think/know your dad would want in the event he becomes unwell. My sister and I have joint POAs for both my parents, had them maybe 5 years without having to use them. My dad then got taken into hospital suddenly and then went into a nursing home for end of life care - it meant that we could make decisions about his care knowing what he would have wanted. I don't know if I'd bother trying to do the application myself rather than use a solicitor at that price though, as long as the cost isn't an issue. Good luck.

Doing the PoA yourself online is really easy. If you're not sure, there are explanations at each stage. But it's not onerous,at all. And several years after I got them done, I got money back and think I only ended up paying £41 for each.

You really don't need a solicitor.

One thing you can do which is really easy, is to write a letter for the doctors giving you permission to both access and discuss his medical records and details with the gps. Get your dad to sign it and hand it in. It will save you sooo much aggravation and it takes no time to do.

Both my parents are now dead, but it helped us enormously to have both the finance and health PoA's.

If your father is amenable, get them started ASAP. Banks and utility co's are getting a lot better at dealing with them. It was a long slog for us.

We asked the GP to support our applications (though getting an appointment might be as rare as hens teeth these days).

Just to add that it is easy enough to do them yourselves. Just get everybody to date and sign on the same day if you can.

I realised it had be done when he was of sound mind, that’s why we couldn’t do one for my Mum. But I was concerned I had to use it immediately, he certainly doesn’t need any help with anything that would require a POA at the moment.

No, you do not have to use POA immediately.

In the case of my DM, we organised a finance PoA when she finally agreed that she was struggling with the management of a big house and garden and needed to move to a small flat. She'd last moved house in the 60's!

She carried on dealing with milkman/cleaners/shopping/taxi company for several years afterwards, but we dealt with estate agents and solicitors etc. and would accompany her to buy new furniture/electricals etc. As time progressed we took on more on more of the finance stuff and organising groceries. She still had paper bank statements etc, but DB could access her accounts online. So, yes, we would ask "would you like us to help with this?" and either get a "yes please" or a sharp "I am quite capable of organising this myself".

I found it useful to have the solicitor explain it to mum. Someone completely neutral. Yes. It cost a bit but not that much. Also is your DH really going to do anything? I think you put reserves in if you disappear!

I think he will probably have a fair bit to do with the financial side of things. I’m an only child and whilst I’m great at medical stuff and making phone calls, I’m not brilliant at financial stuff like investments etc. DH works in a finance related field so I feel it’d be useful to have him on there too? Unless I’ve completely misunderstood it and you can only have 1 person? He is actually taking my Dad to the bank this week to sort out his accounts as I’m a TA and can’t have more time off and he works from home.

Very easy to do yourself. We did it for mum and at the same time did them for ourselves with DC as attorneys. You keep them until needed.
You can have several attorneys.
Mum still had capacity until she died 10 years later so the financial one just stayed in a drawer. We did need the health and welfare one at the end when GP surgery were being difficult.

We didn’t go to the bank. I just run the accounts and move money around. All on line. The POA was needed whilst DM was in hospital so I got in with it, with her agreement. You can get advice from anyone regarding what to do with the money but are you having DH pay the bills and do all the finances without taking any responsibility yourself? POA isn’t about medical stuff unless person is not competent. You can do a lot without POA on that front.

You can have more than one person but if DH has gone to the bank I wouldn’t set this up without DF saying what he wants. It’s his POA, not yours. All the advice about do it yourself is fine. But I would want my relative totally clear about what this means, what the POA is and they choose who they want. Not you. They should be clear about instructions. Age Concern has the best advice on line. I would read that.

Do get your Dad to think about his 'wishes'.

I have LPA for both health and finance for my aunt, but she hasn't activated it yet - when she does I will get her copy which indicates her 'wishes' ie DNR etc.