POA and putting house in trust…

[mrsconradfisher]

Will try to keep this as brief as possible. My Mum passed away on Boxing Day with Vascular Dementia, she was diagnosed a year ago so a very fast deterioration and as a result we never got POA. In the end we never needed it as she died before we managed to find a nursing home for her but we would have had to get Deputyship.
Now trying to get things sorted for my Dad. He is 83 but very “with it” so he thinks it makes sense for me to have POA. I’m an only child so no siblings to work with but he also wants my DH on there too to help with the financial stuff. I’m happy to do it but not entirely sure what it involves, we have an appointment next week but I’d like to have more of an idea before we go. He doesn’t need any support at the moment. He handles money and banks on his own, I call Utility bills etc and he gives permission for them to speak to me if needed. Ideally he’d just like something in place if something did happen but not to actually do anything with it at the moment, is that possible? And if so then do we need both or just financial?
Also the solicitors have suggested putting his house in a trust. I’m not convinced it’s a great idea tbh and I think it will be l
more hassle than it’s worth. They suggested it was to do with avoiding care home fees but surely that can’t be the case or everyone would be doing it?
It’s a tiny bungalow, plus even with his savings it’s below the IT threshold so can’t see the point unless someone can tell me otherwise?

My sister and I are POA for both my parents, who are also POA for each other. They're fit and well and in their sixties, but wanted to get it sorted in case anything terrible happens.

He has got to go to the bank. My Mum has just passed away at Christmas and they need to sort out all her accounts. My Dad doesn’t have online banking so there is absolutely no way of doing it online. My Dad asked my DH to go with him. It was actually his idea to have DH on there too and asked me what I thought. Dad actually has to go in and instruct the POA on his own apparently so it will definitely be his decision.
The reason I said about the medical stuff is that as I said my Mum has just passed away. She had Vascular Dementia and we didn’t have POA for her. It was a complete nightmare as no one would speak to me without POA, even the hospital until my Dad caused a huge fuss. I had to sort out her medications etc at the doctors and they wouldn’t speak to me either.

I wouldn't put the finance POA in DH's name only. If DH was run over by the proverbial bus and then DF had dementia, you'd be left with no effective POA and no way to get one.

Also if you are on the finance POA it doesn't stop you getting DH to help and advise.

Are there any other relatives who could also go on both POAs? If it was you that got run over, would you be OK if DH had the sole POA for DF without you around to "supervise"?

Anyway, getting the POA now (as soon as possible) doesn't mean you have to use it immediately. Giving a bit of advice or taking DF to the bank isn't the same as using the POA. You just put it in the drawer until it really is necessary for you to take control, if ever. I didn't do this, it was a mistake that cost a lot of money and effort. My DM was in a care home fully compos mentis - then one day she had a mini stroke....

I know that seems a bit unrealistic, but I'm doing a will at the moment and have to provide for what happens if my wife dies before me, all my three kids die without having kids of their own - then what happens to my estate? Totally unlikely scenario but it has to be covered, or the will could fail. And actually, with COVID around peoples expectations of who will die first or when or how they will die have been a bit turned on their head.

My DH and I both had POA for my MIL - you will need one for finances and one for health. When to time came for my MIL to need a care home it meant we were able to deal the the sale of the house and then later we were able to express her wishes regarding her health care, We could both act individually as you can state preference in the POA - in practice this meant I dealt with the finances and my DH dealt with the carers and eventually the care home

We didnt use a solicitor as the process is relatively easy to DIY

My MIL could get forgetful and sometimes a little confused so we could always keep her informed and it allowed us to act according to her wishes

No we were going to do just me on the health one and both DH and me on the wealth one. There is literally no other family. Dad is an only child and I’m an only child. I’ve got 2 children, one is 17 so not old enough to be on there and the other is 12. I trust DH to make the right decision , we’ve been together since I was 18 and I’m now nearly 50 so I know if anything awful happened he would act in Dad’s best interest. It was actually a solicitor that suggested I add another person on there. Is it really such a bad idea? If so then I will rethink. We are only doing this because my Mum had Vascular Dementia and I didn’t have POA.

I wasn't saying that it was a bad idea to put DH on the finance one, only to ask if you would be happy with that if you were not around to supervise him! But you are. Nevertheless, better for both of you to be on both the POAs.

My sister and I have POA for my mum, at her insistence after my dad died. Very easy to set up. One thing we have learnt, you do need to register it with the persons bank which is a bit of a palaver if you don't live close to the parent (we don't).

No I know you weren’t, it’s just other people in real life have asked the same question and I was doubting myself whether I’d made the right decision or I’d missed something glaringly obvious! If I had siblings it would be so much easier! On another note my Dad has announced today he has chosen funeral songs which he wants written in his will in case I forget…Another one bites the dust and I did it my way!!

As you trust your husband, I'd put both of you on both. You can always tell your husband he's not to make any decisions without clearing it with you first. But you never know when you might be unable to go somewhere and your husband fills in for you.

I assumed you went to the bank to talk about what your DF wanted re power of attorney Op.

Its pretty easy to get a bank account on line and then you activate POA with the bank and make payments. With DF approval. You don’t need to live near the bank.

Of course the POA paperwork can be done on line but we found the solicitor was great at explaining things to mum. Things you might not think of. It also makes it their decision. Their questions answered and not you forcing the issue. You can both ask questions about who should have access to what.

No my DH is going to the bank with my Dad (we had to make an appointment) because my Mum passed away at Christmas. They have a joint account so it needs to be transferred to my Dad. She also had an ISA which needs to be closed and the money transferred to my Dad. The bank doesn’t open on Saturday and I can’t take anymore time off as I’m a TA so my DH is taking him.
He doesn’t want an online bank account. He has no access to the internet so an online account would be useless for him. I can barely make him use his debit card as he prefers cash so online banking is never going to happen.

Yes but with POA activated you can make payments for him. Via on line banking. It’s so much easier. However if he’s ok with it right now, leave well alone.

Another option you have (with or without a POA) is to make his bank account a joint account with you. You do nothing unless/until you need, to but you can monitor the account. But when the time comes you can use the account immediately because you are already a signatory/owner.

I managed my DMs care home fees for several years like that, using internet banking, even though I actually live abroad. All the utility accounts were accessible online, but unless you opt out of paper bills and statements everything will be as normal for DF.

I don't know why you're insisting on only having one of you for each POA. You're just making your life difficult, potentially.

If one of you is incapacitated, your dad is stuck for even paying a bill.
My mum is paralysed after a stroke, but is mentally fine. My brother and I, plus a friend, all have POA which we use with her permission, to pay all her bills and manage her other financial stuff like her care costs etc.
If it was only one of us, it would be a pain for that person.

If you both have financial POA you can set up internet banking on his behalf and manage it for him. But it's unfair to leave it to your DH. It's a big responsibility, and there should be someone else with access to the account to protect your DH from any accusations of mismanagement. I completely trust my brother who does most of my mum's stuff, but he insists that I look at the account occasionally to confirm that the outgoings are legit. I know they will be, but I also know that he feels the need to be transparent.

Likewise if your dad was in hospital and you couldn't be reached, your DH needs to be able to help him.

If you both have financial POA you can set up internet banking on his behalf and manage it for him

To clarify, even if internet banking is set up, your dad doesn't have to use it. He can carry on regardless with the way he uses his account at the moment. But if he starts to falter, you'll be able to manage things for him seamlessly.

...And I hate to say this, but you need more they one attorney for each purpose in case anything happens to one of you. The one left behind would otherwise be helpless when dad needed them.

The solicitor you saw seems to be advising you poorly.

I’m not in any way insisting that there is only 1 person on each POA, there just only happens to be one person (me!) who really should be on it. Not all of us are blessed with huge families and siblings. I have no siblings, no cousins and nor does my Dad so not sure who else you think I should put on there? My oldest son is 17 so isn’t old enough.My DH will be on the financial one as I already said along with me. He wasn’t going to be on the health one as I initially thought DH wouldn’t want to really have any input into my Dad’s medical care but he said he is happy to be on there as well if needed and if my Dad wants him to be.
My Dad doesn’t want internet banking. That is the one thing he is adamant about. He is 83 and very suspicious of anything to do with the internet. Even though it would make it easier for him and us, I have to respect his wishes.

I’m not in any way insisting that there is only 1 person on each POA, there just only happens to be one person (me!) who really should be on it. Not all of us are blessed with huge families and siblings. I have no siblings, no cousins and nor does my Dad so not sure who else you think I should put on there?

Your DH. You said that he was going to have POA for finance and you for health. Why not both of you for both?

I thought that the way I wrote my post made that clear.

I was putting me and DH on both, and initially me on health because quite honestly DH has nothing to do with the health of his own Dad let alone my Dad. However he has since said that if I need him to be on the health one as well then he is happy to be on there too. Not sure what would happen if I wasn’t married or DH wasn’t willing to help, like I said not everyone has huge families to call on.
The way I feel at the moment, I’m not even sure I can face going to the solicitors. I’ve just spent 3 weeks since my Mum passed away sorting everything out whilst trying to work full time. I came on here to ask for advice but tbh all it’s done is make me feel shit totally mainly due to your patronising tone. I’m trying to do my best for my Dad who is also grieving with no support from anyone other than my DH.
I actually don’t care about the bloody POA, all I want is my Mum back.

I'd do both of you for both POA.
With the finance one you could set up online banking in behalf of your dad. So your dad wouldn't have to use it, or anything; but it might be handy to have already in place as it's so much easier sat having a cup of tea paying bills from your phone on your dad's behalf than it would be trekking to the bank at a time of stress.

You sound time poor so I'd use the solicitor to do POAs. It will cut the faff out. Apart from getting your dad to/from solicitors unless he's happy to go under own steam.

I wouldn't bother with a trust esp if under IHT limit. Questions would definitely be asked if it came to council funding. Might be different if he was 50.

Not a solicitor by the way,!

Hugs ref your mum

Thank you, I thought I was ok about my Mum. She had Vascular Dementia so it was expected but I’m a mess today.
I agree about the Trust, I’m definitely not sure it’s a good idea for exactly that reason.
I will see if the bank suggests the online banking again when they go to his appointment, he is very very old school and can’t understand how it works despite me explaining lots of times. It would certainly make things easier. He currently pays me a cheque which I pay into my account and then pay for things that way.

You might also want to put DS on them. If he is soon to be 18. DS was on ours at 18, though we have not had to activate it and he is now 28. More the merrier! And no extra cost.

I came on here to ask for advice but tbh all it’s done is make me feel shit totally mainly due to your patronising tone

If you're referring to me, I'm sorry if my tone has come across very differently from what was intended. Having been through all this, I was intending to save you from possible difficulties in the future. My tone was intended to be informative and helpful. I'm sorry that you were upset, and my condolences re your mum.

If you don't mind me continuing briefly, I have set up my own POAs with my daughters as attorneys, following my husband's death. It was very easy to do online, with only the order of getting signatures taking a small amount of thought. So you really don't need to spend extra on a solicitor.

Thank you. I know it was intended kindly, I’m just feeling rather rubbish about my already tiny family made even smaller now my Mum has gone. It just felt that everyone else has loads of people they can put on there rather than using their DH and I don’t have that so I took it to heart. My emotions are all over the place at the moment!

Ah yes he is very nearly 18, I assumed he had to actually be 18 but maybe not. I shall investigate thank you.