Grandparents looking for access

[Isitjustus]

Hi there,

I am not sure if there is anyone out there who has experienced this. Wasn’t sure where else to turn so really hoping someone can offer advice.

we have a turbulent relationship with our in laws. It got worse after our child was born. They never made an effort it was always us doing the chasing. Over the years they have liked to be controlling to my partner and when my partner has decided to do things they didn’t agree with it would all start again. There has been threats and name calling on their part. When we say something they don’t like the abuse starts.

My partner and I decided it would be better for our child if rather than permanently chase our in laws and then have a inconsistent relationship with our child we wouldn’t bother with them anymore.

our child has all the love and support they need and attends a childcare setting too.

Issue is our in laws are now making demands and threatening to take us to court to get access to our child. We have had numerous solicitors letters and they continue to make false allegations about my partner and I.

Has anyone else ever been in this situation where there in laws want to try and get some form of custody?

Thank you if you made it this far :)

The only time judges intervene is where the grandparents had a significant relationship and/or circumstances are very unusual eg where a parent has died and the grandparents had done full time childcare prior to the death.

The uk law does not grant automatic access to grandchildren. Any contact has to be agreed by the parents. From what I can see from google, they have to first go through mediation with social workers and then court. It won’t be a bad thing to go to mediation, you can show all your evidence.

I’d move if at all possible
ive only ever known two cases where grandparents got contact-one the parents settled out of court with granny,who to be fair did a lot for them (mum got back with dad and moved in with him-granny had done a lot of childcare until then and the parents cut contact) and the other looked after the child 5/6 days a week while mum worked
they fell out and mum used a childminder
it was tit for tat but granny took mum to court and sees the child one weekend out of every 4
both children where aged 5/6 at the time

my own mother tried this-she was useless as a granny and often put the kids in danger by not doing basic things for them
i removed them from her ‘care’ and she threatened me with court
i told her to go ahead and she blustered a lot,sent snotty letters and I’m still waiting for her to take me
she did have them maybe once/twice a month (they where older) but she didn’t have a leg to stand on
and she knew it-it was all hot air to make me toe the line

They don’t want to go to mediation, they don’t want to go over what happened the 2 years previous, the lack of effort they made. Didn’t ever call my partner or message to see how our little one was. When our little one was born they didn’t bother to come and see her for 3 days even though we were both poorly and it’s not far away. They saw her once a month with us there if that. I just can’t believe that in 2022 I can’t decide as another who I do and don’t want in our lives. I haven’t been sleeping it’s all I can think about.

You can decide
.. You block them all.
You live your life.
I am nc with my dps and ils. Despite mil bad mouthing me to anyone she knew...
Gave no fucks. She hasn't seen dc for over 7 years.

OP, I don't know why you are responding to the solicitor's letters. Ignore them, block their numbers and do not respond to anything other h the an a court order (which you won't get!).
They are bullying you with the help of a solicitor. A solicitor will send you letters as they are paying him to. A court would laugh them out the room.
I understand the fear having been there myself, but you have to realise they have NO rights. Ironically by you letting them meet you, they'll have more to say about having a current relationship with your child! But a court won't ever order contact with a grandparent when it's acrimonious with the parents. Xx

Check your home insurance to see if you can get some legal advice under that

Thank you again for all your responses. I will not be responding to anymore solicitors letters ☺️😚

I know grandparents who went to court and got rightsy et MN claims it never happens. They didnt have a pre-existing relationship with the child- although the child was very young.

@TomatoorChips Could you link to this judgement please? I can't see how what you describe is possible because the only legal argument is under the Children's Act 89 that an existing relationship benefits the child.

@Isitjustus I disagree with people saying that it would never get to a hearing- it might if they throw money and time at it. So keep all evidence of abusive behaviour.

Other that, ignore. From what you say about them I don't think they are going to want the humiliation of having their behaviour aired in court. They are just using a lawyer to bully you, showing you made the right choice to cut all contact.

donquixotedelamancha

There was a thread about this but that long ago. It doesn't go through that system. A lawyer explained the different stages and explained that at each stage, the judge would probably say yes unless he has a good reason to say no, simply because of the blood tie. It's very depressing. Then another lawyer came along and agreed with her. They then discussed how deluded we all were! They definitely knew their stuff.

You can pay a solicitor to write a letter saying anything.

There was a thread on here where wife 2 had a solicitor write a letter demanding that wife 1 (the ex) ditch her married name because it was inappropriate for her to keep her married name 🤣

Don't hire a solicitor. Let them waste time and money pursuing this. You're not obliged to reply to letters from solicitors. The only benefit from doing so is that the solicitor gets your charge your ILs for writing back to them with what you said. However for your sanity, ignore. The drama created by replying etc is drama that they can feed off.

Hi op I have been through this and unfortunately it went all the way but we won in the end feel free to pm me.

If they pursue with courts you will receive a summons anyway so not point ignoring it, you need a solicitor asap.

Just to add at the first court date the Judge said they had to explore it even though they had not seen our child since they were 1 and it was 4 years later and a Childrens Officer was appointed to interview everyone. This all last for 2 years and caused me so much stress but we held strong.

To add regarding pp saying the judge will not entertain it. They actually will our PIL had not seen our child in 4 years (they never had a relationship or even overnight contact prior to this) and still the Judge allowed it to progress. Although as I said we won in the end.

We had ignored the first few letters also but then they lodged it officially with the court and so we had to engage. Sorry for the drip feed

There was a thread about this but that long ago. It doesn't go through that system. A lawyer explained the different stages and explained that at each stage, the judge would probably say yes unless he has a good reason to say no, simply because of the blood tie. It's very depressing.

I'm not sure what other system it could go through other than the family court, following mediation?

Given these GPs have refused mediation and have been abusive I am incredibly sceptical that any judge would force contact, let alone the unsupervised overnight stays they want.

I agree that OP should not take as gospel the advice of any of us internet randoms; I'm certainly not claiming expertise.

@spero is a highly regarded lawyer in related areas. I wonder whether you would mind weighing in?

That's fine don, just thought you'd like to know how this went down before. Unless we're lawyers our opinions don't count for much.

I like the new style of notifications! Got pinged on my phone this time instead of finding an email in my junk folder.

I think most of the advice here is spot on. Grandparents do not have a right to make an application for a child arrangements order. They have to apply for permission. The court will consider section 10(9) of the Children Act 1989

Where the person applying for leave to make an application for a section 8 order is not the child concerned, the court shall, in deciding whether or not to grant leave, have particular regard to—

(a)the nature of the proposed application for the section 8 order;

(b)the applicant’s connection with the child;

(c)any risk there might be of that proposed application disrupting the child’s life to such an extent that he would be harmed by it; and [bit about local authority]

From what you say, looks like an application would fail at the permission stage.

I would reply politely but firmly to any solicitors letter. You do not intend to engage further, you do not think mediation is appropriate and you will resist any application that is made. If the grandparents wish to apply to court, then let them get on with it.

Do you have personal professional experience of this Spero? Sounds like you're reading something off, in the nicest possible way. The advice here is spot on in echoing what you've said but it doesn't speak to the experience of a professional in this particular field. In reality access is granted more often than the majority view would imply.

Do you have personal professional experience of this Spero? Sounds like you're reading something off, in the nicest possible way.

LMAO. Yes she does.

They can apply for leave to issue, but you must resist that application.

Whether or not leave is granted depends on the court's applicaiton of s10(9) of the Children act 1989. this states:
Where the person applying for leave to make an application for a section 8 order is not the child concerned, the court shall, in deciding whether or not to grant leave, have particular regard to—
(a)the nature of the proposed application for the section 8 order;
(b)the applicant’s connection with the child;
(c)any risk there might be of that proposed application disrupting the child’s life to such an extent that he would be harmed by it; ...

So crack on as you are. Rely upon the disruptive effect they have on your family.

Just seen someone has beaten me to it.

I have personal experience of this. Yes the Grandparents have to apply for permission (I still had to go to court for this early stage) at this stage they do not investigate any allegations and most likely grant permission to start the process.

If you make allegations that it's not appropriate this is looked at throughout the court process (they cannot identify if this is true or not at this early stage therefore usually allow the Grandparents to proceed to make an application) and this is where usually a Childrens Court Officer is appointed to investigate the concerns

Op I just came out of this and can completely fill you in if you PM me on what we did to win.

@Spero thank you so much. Do you think we need a solicitor we really can’t afford it? I have advised I would look to get a cost order but my in laws have said their solicitors have said these are only for criminal law which I know it not true.
Thanks again, it’s really messing with our mental health :(