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Legal matters

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Original poster

DD's father in care home - relatives interfering

96 replies

Vapeyvapevape · 31/03/2022 11:05

My ex is in a care home, he suffered a traumatic brain injury and has zero capacity. My dd and her siblings have applied for deputyship but it hasn't been granted yet.
He has a lodger in the house and the cash rent is being used to pay bills- all recorded and receipts kept.

His 2 sisters aren't happy with how his finances are being managed and have threatened to ask the court not to grant his children deputyship, they are also pushing them to let a solicitor take over everything.

My dd has been paying for toiletries, chiropodist etc out of her own money and they're not happy about this.

How much say do they have in this ? It's causing so many arguments .

OP posts:
GrumpySausage · 31/03/2022 12:36

As per a pp, the office of the public guardian has no control over the length of an application for deputyship. Deputyship applications are dealt with by the Court of Protection, who are separate to the OPG. The OPG supervise the deputy after the order has been granted by the Court but have no involvement until that point. The OPG deal with Lasting power of attorneys but in this instance as OP's ex has lost capacity it is not relevant.

OP, it Sind spike your daughter is doing all she can. I would advise her to keep records as much as she can in case her aunts decide to question things in the future, or report her to the supervising body, the OPG. If your DD has kept records she will be able to show them easily that there is no wrongdoing and her aunts will be told so by OPG.

AnnaSW1 · 31/03/2022 12:39

I'd honestly just let the court of protection make a decision on this. If deputyship is granted it will set out what they can do.

Original poster
Vapeyvapevape · 31/03/2022 12:39

Thank you, she's coping with the finances really well under the circumstances. It's the aunts being so nasty that's causing her so much upset.

OP posts:
GrumpySausage · 31/03/2022 12:39

@Vapeyvapevape

Is the OPG the same as court of protection? I've tried to find a phone number to call .
No they are different organisations. The OPG handles lasting power of attorneys, and then supervises Deputies after the Court of Protection have granted the order. The OPG has no jurisdiction over the application so will have no record until the order is granted.

Unfortunately the Court process can be long and is frustrating for those in need. It sounds like your DD is doing all she can and her aunts have no cause to complain.

HollowTalk · 31/03/2022 13:20

Is your daughter his only child?

HollowTalk · 31/03/2022 13:20

Could this have been predicted based on their past behaviour, or is it completely unexpected?

Original poster
Vapeyvapevape · 31/03/2022 13:20

She has 2 half siblings from his previous marriage

OP posts:
Original poster
Vapeyvapevape · 31/03/2022 13:22

@HollowTalk they have had fallings out with each other before (the aunts) but the relationship with the children has always been fine . The text messages they have sent have been really quite nasty.

OP posts:
HollowTalk · 31/03/2022 13:27

Could you speak to them about this?

"SILs, I'm really concerned about some of the messages you are sending DD. She's becoming increasingly upset by what you're saying. She is an adult and is XH's daughter. Taking care of the finances is her responsibility and she's doing everything by the book. I know you'll want to keep a relationship going between you and I know you're upset about XP being so ill, but these messages are making a tough time even harder for DD. She's coping well and will ask if she needs any help. Take care, OP"

HollowTalk · 31/03/2022 13:27

How are the other half siblings feeling about this?

Original poster
Vapeyvapevape · 31/03/2022 13:32

I have offered to intervene but dd reckons it will make things worse, I have had to sit on my hangs a couple of times for sure!
Her siblings are equally fed up but one of them is slightly less likely to say how they really feel.

OP posts:
Original poster
Vapeyvapevape · 31/03/2022 13:32

*hands

OP posts:
Hallmark1234 · 31/03/2022 13:33

Unbelieveable his sister's are acting this way, when your daughter has so much on her plate! Are they after money do you think?

I always understood once married (even though you're divorced now), then children come along, these become your closest relatives and not siblings; that would only be the case if there were no wife/children.

I'm sure the sisters are concerned for their brother, but your daughter needs to get tough with them and tell them she's his NoK not them!

IncompleteSenten · 31/03/2022 13:34

Are they after his money?

CointreauVersial · 31/03/2022 13:40

I'd be tempted to do what HollowTalk suggests, but you have to be guided by your DD, and not do it if she thinks it will make things worse.

While your intervention might work if the aunts' motivations are genuine (i.e. safeguarding their brother), and could even help matters if they could find a way to work together, but it might make things worse if they have selfish intentions.

BlanketsBanned · 31/03/2022 13:52

If you google court of protection helpline phone number it lists all the regional offices, its on the Gov,UK site.

Original poster
Vapeyvapevape · 31/03/2022 14:02

They've just had a substantial inheritance so I would hope they're not after his money but who knows?
I'll tell dd to give the helpline a call it might hurry things up- she's been told it could take up to 18 months!

OP posts:
DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 31/03/2022 14:46

They are trying to bully your dd via their relationship as aunts to gain control of her father's assets.
She is next of kin. Does he have a will or is she named as a beneficiary in any insurance policies. Does he still have a mortgage? if not who has the deeds?
It sounds like the aunts are involved in the house in some way. Did they organise the lodger? if not and if your daughter is dealing with this and forwarding to the care home, surely its none of the Aunt's business.
As she has been the carer and organising for his care home bills to be paid and she is next of kin, at 24 she should have the organising of it.

ts good that she has you and her half siblings to talk to as she needs lots of support. She just has to remind herself that she is doing the best for her father whatever the aunts say.

Your DD really really needs proper legal advice on what to do next. They are relying on her not getting it.
She should try to get her status legally defined so that the aunts cannot interfere. If she writes it all down, with info such as his will/deeds to the house etc... care home details and length of time he's been there and how the bills are paid. She shouldn't need more than an hour's time.
Screen shot the nasty messages. At this stage they will only get nastier when she doesn't do what they want. And it doesn't cost that much for a solicitor to send them a letter saying all communication goes via them.
Also she should try to contact Age Concern or similar for advice.

HeddaGarbled · 31/03/2022 14:52

She could just block their phone numbers.

TheNameOfTheRoses · 31/03/2022 15:00

Then she needs to grey rock them like you would fur an abusive ex partner.

She is doing everything by the books. She is doing her best and the aunts seem to be in a mission to make things difficult. It might even nit have anything to do with her but will whatever has created bad blood between them and her dad.

The best she can do is to ignore them. Or be extremely pragmatic if she answers. Eg her question about who would pay a solicitor to handle the money was to the point abd excellent

NumberTheory · 31/03/2022 15:07

Are they just frustrated with the length of time it’s taking and don’t realise your DD and her siblings can’t impact that? It doesn’t sound like they have a selfish motivation if they’re agitating for a solicitor to take over. More that they’re rudely assuming incompetence on your DD’s part because they’re ignorant of the bureaucracy and think the delays (and therefore the risk to their brothers assets which are all he’ll ever get now he’s incapacitated) are down to her rather than the red tape?

If this might be the issue, pointing them to some forums where people in your DDs position discus their frustrations with it might help them realise they’re agitating in the wrong place.

But ultimately your DD just needs them to shut up, and she could do that by telling them they are being rude and she will no longer respond to demands and will only keep them updated through email (which you could filter so she doesn’t have to read anything vile).

Original poster
Vapeyvapevape · 31/03/2022 15:34

Thank you for all the replies.
Her father doesn't have a will. One of the aunts was some sort of paralegal and had gone through all this with her mother so she knows the score.
He does have a mortgage and was receiving benefits, he also has some sort of mortgage top up loan from the government , he was in huge debt (10k) to a utility company but dd has managed to reduce that to around 2k.

I just can't fathom why they are being so difficult at an already very stressful time.

She desperately wants to maintain a relationship with her family , I've told her to block them , and is worried that her siblings will also turn against her if persuaded by the aunts. She's the youngest, the eldest really isn't that interested but has stood up to them (although will be expecting his inheritance when the time comes) the middle one is a bit passive, neither of them has offered to help go to the building society to make payments , my dd has been doing it all. She's the one the care home liaises with.

OP posts:
Original poster
Vapeyvapevape · 31/03/2022 15:37

Is a solicitor really needed as I thought your children were automatically next of kin?

OP posts:
BlanketsBanned · 31/03/2022 18:28

NoK isnt always.the nearest blood relative unless its for The Mental Health Act. It can be a friend, relative or solicitor. Did he ever discuss this with family before he lost capacity. Someone who claims they were some sort of paralegal doesnt mean they are right.

Gingernaut · 31/03/2022 18:36

Your daughters need to secure the house and change the locks if necessary.

Their aunts have no right to access the property or any accounts, nor would they inherit if your Ex died - your daughters would.

If it should be that the house has to be sold, the proceeds would have to go in an account to be used for your Ex's benefit.

Your daughters probably know this already, but the idea that money is going 'out of the family' sometimes send the more grasping relatives insane.