Separation non married can he demand half of everything?

[Joanne2015]

Non married with 3 kids. My family paid £240k to the house, it’s now worth 290k over past 6 years. I was gifted £50k to pay deposit and I paid 15 of my own, he paid 10k. They then paid the mortgage company directly the remaining amount 3 years later. We are spreading and he says to sell the house and split it 50/50. I don’t want to do that as it means moving the kids out the house my family wanted for them. It’s a great and safe area, they have friends and school here. I am trying to find a way to buy him out but the max I can go to is 120k. He won’t accept that saying I’m forcing him to move back to England as he only earns 1380 a month. I’ve tried to say that to walk away with £120k after 6 years is more than most folk and if it means his kids get to stay in their family home then he’s being selfish.. he keeps saying he can’t see me stay here and be with another man.(not even on the card btw) but it’s all about him and he is literally taking me to the cleaners for the sake of 20/30k. I will now need to take 100k mortgage on just to give him this figure for the next 33 years. I’m so upset and angry now as I can’t believe he is so entitled to the house my family provided. Emotions running high right now but will I at least be able to make sure I get the 65k deposit back before the house is split 50/50? Anyone can offer any reassurance?

Don’t do or say anything. See a solicitor first. What an awful situation for you.

@Joanne2015

You are right… he isn’t a cock whatever and no he doesn’t deserve to get shafted but I’d hardly say after a 10k contribution walking out of this with a 25k bmw and &120k instead of 140/150k is a bum deal would you, to know your kids aren’t going to go through the added disruption of being taken from their friends, homes and having to move to a smaller house.

Actually I do think he is a cock if he's willing to take such a huge amount of money when he has contributed almost nothing to the home. I think the 120k is excessively generous.

You know you've been naive and foolish not protecting this as he could be walking away with his 10k and a small proportion of equity if you had.

It appears so. Tbh I don’t think this is about the money it’s about me staying here whilst he needs to leave and he all but said that yesterday. Again it’s about him snd his feelings not the kids

Can’t your parents demand their money back first so he only gets his put in and half the equity?

OP - you keep saying it’s about “him and his feelings” but you acknowledge he’s on a low salary and it seems to be you that’s put the bulk of the money away into savings; I’m assuming because your income was so much higher.

What’s the background (only if you want to give the detail, obviously) as to why he’s earning such a comparatively low salary?

Did he change his career plans around the DC? Did you ask him to cut back because you were pulling in enough from your salary (and/or your parents) to not need him to work? How much of his salary went into the pot? Could he have even put “his” money aside in savings if he’d wanted to, or was all the extra coming from your parents?

Yes it’s different, legally, from a marriage but after 6 years together with my DP (we cohabit) as the higher earner, I’d not have expected to keep anything that just happened to be in my name instead of hers if we’d split. I can put money into a pension and some savings, the mortgage etc because her salary helps deepen the pot.

@PaterPower

OP - you keep saying it’s about “him and his feelings” but you acknowledge he’s on a low salary and it seems to be you that’s put the bulk of the money away into savings; I’m assuming because your income was so much higher.

What’s the background (only if you want to give the detail, obviously) as to why he’s earning such a comparatively low salary?

Did he change his career plans around the DC? Did you ask him to cut back because you were pulling in enough from your salary (and/or your parents) to not need him to work? How much of his salary went into the pot? Could he have even put “his” money aside in savings if he’d wanted to, or was all the extra coming from your parents?

Yes it’s different, legally, from a marriage but after 6 years together with my DP (we cohabit) as the higher earner, I’d not have expected to keep anything that just happened to be in my name instead of hers if we’d split. I can put money into a pension and some savings, the mortgage etc because her salary helps deepen the pot.

No I’m the primary care giver. Yes he keeps 300 a month to himself and no he’s not saved any of it or used it for family /house. He literally eats it on fast food and burger vans during the week. He has stayed in the same income for 8 years now, he’s had multiple opportunities to progress and chose not to, I’ve offered to help him retrain to do a trade if he wants, I’ve offered to help him start a business ( he’s incredibly good with woodwork and diy ) he won’t go for promotions at work because he doesn’t want to change his hours and finish later or work a saturday(which promotion would mean) honestly this is prob one of the main reasons the relationship is over… that he’s not brought anything to the table in 8 years or had any desire to make a better life so we don’t need the money from my family. If I worked full time I’d earn more yes.:but we have 3 kids all within 1 year, full time work is impossible right now. I have 100% of the mental load and physical load at home: another reason I’m done; he doesn’t contribute equally to the day to day running of the home and family and I’m done being a mummy to adult man. If I could trust him to take on my role in the house I’d go to work full time but knowing what I do of him, I’d still work full time and come home to the majority of the house stuff too.. I ask him to arrange the car service and I’m still waiting a month later, I ask him to get online banking for 8 years so he can be a responsible partner and see what money we have going in and out each month for himself, I’m still waiting. I asked him the other day can you afford to stay here on your own and buy me out? He said I don’t know! The reason he doesn’t know is because he had never paid a bill or knows who or what we pay each month to run this house. The relationship is over because of his complacency, that’s the bottom line.

@PaterPower

OP - you keep saying it’s about “him and his feelings” but you acknowledge he’s on a low salary and it seems to be you that’s put the bulk of the money away into savings; I’m assuming because your income was so much higher.

What’s the background (only if you want to give the detail, obviously) as to why he’s earning such a comparatively low salary?

Did he change his career plans around the DC? Did you ask him to cut back because you were pulling in enough from your salary (and/or your parents) to not need him to work? How much of his salary went into the pot? Could he have even put “his” money aside in savings if he’d wanted to, or was all the extra coming from your parents?

Yes it’s different, legally, from a marriage but after 6 years together with my DP (we cohabit) as the higher earner, I’d not have expected to keep anything that just happened to be in my name instead of hers if we’d split. I can put money into a pension and some savings, the mortgage etc because her salary helps deepen the pot.

I also put in equal wages each month to the joint. My full part time wage is the same as his contribution to the joint account: like I said he keeps 300 bk in his own account and I keep 600 of my money in my account. The difference being I use those savings for home improvement and holidays etc

That’s an extremely valid bottom line!

Everyone gets into a rut from time to time, but that just sounds complacent / entitled and no doubt exhausting for you.

In which case YANBU at being pissed off with him pushing for more than the 120 you’ve offered. Hopefully the solicitor will clear up your legal position tomorrow.

It depends what legal jurisdiction you are in but in the UK a cohabitate doesn't have rights to assets upon a split like a married person does.

Is his name on the deeds for the house? If it is he may be entitled to some of that but it sounds like he's harassing you and making extreme demands.

Let him pay for a lawyer if he's the one who wants more.

@ProseccoThyme

If it is in Scotland, you can start a section 28 Claim. I know a good Edinburgh-based solicitor who can help.

Yes I’ve been advised from my lawyer that this is the case. That there is no way he can claim financial disadvantage from me either and that the fact my family paid the mortgage company directly will not matter either. Lawyer said to let him come at me for half of that’s what he wants but it will cost him.. he asdvised me to tell him to get legal representation as he strongly suspected they will advise him the same. With that said, oh told me he also had legal advise and they told him he’s entitled to half of everything!

@Joanne2015

You are right… he isn’t a cock whatever and no he doesn’t deserve to get shafted but I’d hardly say after a 10k contribution walking out of this with a 25k bmw and &120k instead of 140/150k is a bum deal would you, to know your kids aren’t going to go through the added disruption of being taken from their friends, homes and having to move to a smaller house.

Your right here OP. He is being greedy. Your suggestion seems like a win win for him. A car, decent capital towards a new home and the security of his kids home?? Hopefully he is just blowing smoke out of his arse in the heat of the moment and once he calms down he comes to his senses and thinks primarily about his kids. Although given your parents are clearly wealthy, he possibly knows with pressure on your parents will stump up the difference before any house sale!

Joint tenants in common on the house - mean it’s jointly owned and 50:50 - should have had a different legal arrangement drawn up. As you are unmarried, all pensions, single savings are yours and don’t need to be shared. I think it’s very clear cut

Absolutely no regards for the kids in this. It seems to be about control and getting his needs taken care of. No regards to the fact that for me to cough up 120k I’ll be taking a mortgage on for 33 years and giving him every penny i have: all because and I quote “ he doesn’t want to take a mortgage on as he can’t afford it” also to bare in mind I’m not asking him for CM payments either as I know he can’t afford it: the guilt of me splitting up is taking over hence but I also need to start looking out for me and the kid’s: one of the main reason we are splitting is I feel responsible for him financially amounts other stuff but even now I still feel so

@godwingolly

Joint tenants in common on the house - mean it’s jointly owned and 50:50 - should have had a different legal arrangement drawn up. As you are unmarried, all pensions, single savings are yours and don’t need to be shared. I think it’s very clear cut

Not clear cut at all in Scottish law. I’ve beeen advised that individuals contributions will be taken into account under section 28 family law act

Just wanted to say good luck, your reasons for spilting sound very reasonable and i hope you can get this resolved so you can move on.

Absolutely go to CMS for maintenance for the DC.

He does have the financial means to do so. If he wants more money or a nicer standing of living he will need to work harder, change jobs etc. Most likely he will find another woman to leave with for free and sell her a sob story etc.

He is not some sweet innocent victim. He is capable of earning more but doesn't want to, doesn't care about the DC welfare.

Start getting angry at him!!

@RandomMess

Absolutely go to CMS for maintenance for the DC.

He does have the financial means to do so. If he wants more money or a nicer standing of living he will need to work harder, change jobs etc. Most likely he will find another woman to leave with for free and sell her a sob story etc.

He is not some sweet innocent victim. He is capable of earning more but doesn't want to, doesn't care about the DC welfare.

Start getting angry at him!!

Just so hard to be angry as it’s me splitting up with him and up until now he’s not done anything wrong other than not have the same drive and motivation as me, I’ve simply fallen out of love with him. He’s broken, he’s hurting and the guilt I feel for that and the kids is clouding me right now: of course I don’t want him to walk away with nothing, he’s the father of my kids, he needs to be able to get a place to stay but I think for him to be wanting to be mortgage free after this is ridiculous considering he’s willing to see me with one just to stay in the house. I mean if he took 100k and no Maintenance payments, he could lend up to 90k and would be paying 270 a month and have a 190k property. But he feels he’s entitled to 150k( his figure btw as house isn’t even valued yet) and has the right to live mortgage free off me.. that’s what’s making me mad but either way he’s not going to get 50/50 as I still have proof that 65k deposit was mine..

Don't let guilt stop you get providing as best you can for the DC.

His priority has always been him - he wants an easy life. This is why the relationship has ended. His priority is still him, he wants as much money as possible for as little effort possible and he doesn't care about the impact on his DC.

If he had tried for promotions and failed, or taken the jobs and the impact on the family too much again that would be different.

I just don’t know how to move forwards from this as neither of us are willing to agree right now. My lawyer scholded me when I mentioned £120k as my Max settlement and said what on earth makes you think he’s entitled to that much? I don’t want to go to court as I can’t afford it and neither can he.. even getting lawyers involved is costly that he certainly can’t afford. So how do we move past it? How can I come to an agreement and where do these real numbers come from without it going to court?

Look, if you really want to be kind I'd go back to your lawyer and have another discussion about what he would likely get if it went to court and then make him an offer based on that plus 10%. Then let him take it or leave it. If he is so greedy that he wants more, then he'll need to go to court for it, which of course costs £££.

He won't realise this. He hasn't had legal advice, he's stuck a finger in the air (or spoken to a guy down the pub) and is relying on your good nature to just fork up the figure in his head. Life doesn't work like that. Tell him to go and see a good solicitor and then let him come to his own conclusions.

The 'good' solicitor bit is important here. Some of them will tell you what you want to hear, he needs to have someone more or less lay it out in the same terms as your own solicitor has done.

That all said, I think you're making a huge mistake about not applying for CMS. But that's a separate point that you don't have to agree now.

Don't let your guilt at earning more than him make you give away your children's future.

can also try mediation www.mygov.scot/family-mediation

Yes I’ve contacted mediation anyway but they only deal with child focused issues not financial

@Joanne2015 - that's not the case - you can do financial mediation too, using a qualified solicitor. It will cost £250/hr too.

And you can ask your solicitor for an advocate's opinion - it cost me £500 but was the best money I spent.

But remember court is what you can prove. You have your deposit proof. We're the mortgage payments made out of a joint account, or in your name only? You can do SAR to banks for old statements.

It will cost around £750 to issue the section 28 writs. That should encourage him into a realistic settlement.

The house may be taken in 50/50 names/title but you can argue for more under section 28.

There is a very strict 1 year timescale for section 28 claims so I'd just instruct your solicitor now to avoid any delays & force his hand.

@Joanne2015

You need to stop feeling guilty and get angry! He's realised his cushy number living off you and your parents is coming to an end which is why he is behaving like an entitled shit.

Why should he be mortgage free because he can't be arsed to step up and earn more?

How dare he treat your kids and the mother of his kids like this? Whatever he does to shaft you, he shafts them, because if you are up to your ears paying off a mortgage, you will not be able to afford things for them. I don't know how old your children are, but the older they get , the more you will have to pay out for shoes, uniforms, school trips, sports equipment etc and then if they go to university...it;s never ending.

Listen to your solicitor and offer what she advises. And absolutely go for CMA. He is their father and should be contributing to their upkeep. Don't let him get away with not providing for them.

It is as much his fault as yours that you are splitting up. He sounds like a dead weight round your neck, and exhausting.

[quote ProseccoThyme]@Joanne2015 - that's not the case - you can do financial mediation too, using a qualified solicitor. It will cost £250/hr too.

And you can ask your solicitor for an advocate's opinion - it cost me £500 but was the best money I spent.

But remember court is what you can prove. You have your deposit proof. We're the mortgage payments made out of a joint account, or in your name only? You can do SAR to banks for old statements.

It will cost around £750 to issue the section 28 writs. That should encourage him into a realistic settlement.

The house may be taken in 50/50 names/title but you can argue for more under section 28.

There is a very strict 1 year timescale for section 28 claims so I'd just instruct your solicitor now to avoid any delays & force his hand.[/quote]
What did the advocate do?