Can my ex do this. Help really needed.

[Fireraging]

Name changed for this

Will give bare bones, but exh has been a dad to my daughter since she was 1, she’s 14 now. She’s never seen her real dad in all that time and he is her dad pure and simple, I consider him her dad and I thought he did too.
I have three children by him who are younger.

Ex is taking me to court over access (DV history and long story) but has said he’s not including my daughter in his papers.

This is incredibly hurtful to my daughter who sees this as a rejection of her as his daughter, but I also believe as she is the eldest and most able to verbalise the thoughts of them all it is an attempt to silence her during a Cafcass wishes and feelings (I am going to try for one of these) as the other two children are 9, 7 and 5.

I have also been adamant during access that all four come as a package, because they are a package which he has now obviously decided is not the case.

They don’t stay overnight at his, and I am very concerned for them to stay there without their sister (they are very close) and it would appear he’s willing to split them up to get what he wants. They haven’t been to his house for several years, their home is with me pure and simple.

I get he can’t be forced to see her, that makes him a shitty, lousy person in my opinion, but can any of her thoughts or evidence or worries be included in the court case?

What she says is quite crucial to what I am saying because she is older and sees the situation more clearly than the other children who tread on eggshell round him and are worried he will find out anything they say.

The whole thing smacks of her potentially getting in the way of what he wants, so he is quite willing to trample her feelings and those of the other children in order to get what he wants.

I am livid and so hurt for her, but also scared for the other children who are going to be made to go and stay at his whether they want to or not.

@berry271909

I read your first post last night but I didn't want to reply as you won't like my first thoughts after reading your post but you have asked (twice) so: About your 14 year old daughter going for visits;

1. "and most able to verbalise the thoughts of them"

Don't you mean verbalise your thoughts ?

1. "What she says is quite crucial to what I am saying because she is older and sees the situation more clearly than the other children"

Or again sees the situation as you see it?

1. "The issue was the DV but also something to do with someone at the property"

Does he have a new partner and you are annoyed by that?

Yes, he seems to be behaving like a shitty, lousy person but the court will decide if he is entitled to 50% custody.

You are welcome to your opinion, but to clarify

Two of the children have had counselling over what happened. They witnessed what happened and they were badly traumatised.
They don’t need me to tell them what to say, they all know what they think, however, the eldest can actually say it in a legible way.

Secondly, no it is not a girlfriend or new partner, it was, however, huddled as enough of a safeguarding risk when I left for it to be included in reports.

I have stayed with him to avoid this all the time he had me the kids were very far down in his thoughts. They only resurface when I try to attempt to take control of our lives.
I have avoided divorce for this very reason.

@Bksjshsbbev2737

Unfortunately he can do this but I’m fairly sure that she can write a statement or something formal to give her views (like a witness type thing) and I’m sure the court would be interested in what she has to say. I’ve seen parents get other adults to do this so can’t see why an older child can’t.

No court would allow a statement by a 14 year old to be admitted as evidence, and anyone attempting to do so would be rightly condemned by the judge.

If there's a s7 report see if the Cafcass officer would agree to speak to her, but ultimately you cannot let one child's interests dictate whether 3 other children get to see their biological father. It stinks, but as others have pointed out he may well think that at 14 she can make her own decision.

@Sloaneslone

If there's a dv issue with someone at the property and not him, but this person and him share a property, is it actually likely he will get 50:50?

And wether he includes her or not, her point of view can be included.

It’s difficult to explain, exh was violent to me, but there is a family member living there who I raised as a risk and that is the issue.

Don’t like the ex, would be happy if he vanished but have encouraged him to see the kids at mine or take them out, it’s the fact he now wants them at his, that is why he is going to court.

I am trying to protect them from what I have considered to be a risk to them

This sounds mental.

You are happy for them to stay. As long as your eldest is there who isn't his child. Can he even do that when he doesn't have parental responsibility anyway?

Maybe it makes more sense to someone else.

Yeah @ berry271909 more "DV". I think we are up to 70% of cases in family court now alleging DV when 5.5% of people in the UK have experienced DV in the past 12 months. I feel sorry for people who have been domestically abused as there is less chance of them being believed when so many people seem to want to muddy the waters.

@Skeptadad

This sounds mental.

You are happy for them to stay. As long as your eldest is there who isn't his child. Can he even do that when he doesn't have parental responsibility anyway?

Maybe it makes more sense to someone else.

Yeah @ berry271909 more "DV". I think we are up to 70% of cases in family court now alleging DV when 5.5% of people in the UK have experienced DV in the past 12 months. I feel sorry for people who have been domestically abused as there is less chance of them being believed when so many people seem to want to muddy the waters.

Your attitude is exactly why I have ended up staying with an abuser.

I was attacked in front of my children, I had him arrested. Injuries were photographed.
That was one incident of many including EA, financial control and coercive control.
Would you maybe like me to describe how it was when he raped me one night?

I had an IDVA, we had Social Services involvement and the children were given counselling. How dare you imply I am “muddying the waters for “real” victims. I am a bloody victim of it!

II do not want my children to go there at all and I have continued to stay married to him in order to prevent this happening however I accept the children do need a relationship with him and I have tried to accommodate this in a way that is safe for my children
Staying there is currently not something I feel is safe for my children

Could it be that he sits still want to see her, but isn't taking it from a legal perspective because ultimately as he is not her dad, the court is u likely to enforce it.

This doesn't mean he doesn't want to see her. You say he has been seeing her so it would appear the above is the most likely scenario. If that is the case, please don't put it in your eldest mind that he doesn't care about her or want to see her again.

Yes it is possible that is the case.

I am not putting anything into her head. She is 14 and has lived with him for many years, she, like the others is perfectly capable of loving him and wanting to see him whilst still being upset over the hurt and pain he has caused us all.

She has her own opinion over this, as he chose to tell her rather than discuss it with me. Of course it upset her!

I think you are focusing the wrong way.

Even if he included her, no one can force a 14 year old to visit or stay overnight. There's no real reason to include her. She can go if she wishes. There's no indication he doesn't want to see her. Just that he isn't including her, pointlessly.

You need to be really concentrating on not allowing this man anywhere near any of the kids at all. Not focusing on him not wanting to include the oldest.

OK OP, I have been where you are, except all 3 children were his.

The 14 yo will be deemed old enough to undertake her own visits outside of any formal plan, should she be of sound mind and he be deemed suitable for her to do so. You should not be involved beyond ensuring that she is safe.

The court and SS would be horrified by your desire for DD14 to attend with the others as some form of protection or feedback. He is either safe, or he isnt. Supervised contact is possible when in doubt. The absolute burden on a 14 year old forced to Supervise siblings in potentially dangerous situations is unacceptable. If anything goes even slightly wrong, she will blame herself. This is absolutely not an acceptable burden for that age group. She can protect herself perhaps, but not be responsible for others against an adult. Feel free to doubt me, you will find out the very hard way.

From what you have described of this man, I am truly surprised that SS signed you off of Child Protection allowing him unsupervised access to the children at all. Where did this contact take place? Hopefully never at his. Is he even supposed to be in your home? They will see you as too weak to protect your children if you haven't maintained boundaries.

You need to stop focusing on him having contact and urgently focus on your own behaviour here. Protect your children from him and get your priorities straight.

You could both lose your children.

@chickenyhead

OK OP, I have been where you are, except all 3 children were his.

The 14 yo will be deemed old enough to undertake her own visits outside of any formal plan, should she be of sound mind and he be deemed suitable for her to do so. You should not be involved beyond ensuring that she is safe.

The court and SS would be horrified by your desire for DD14 to attend with the others as some form of protection or feedback. He is either safe, or he isnt. Supervised contact is possible when in doubt. The absolute burden on a 14 year old forced to Supervise siblings in potentially dangerous situations is unacceptable. If anything goes even slightly wrong, she will blame herself. This is absolutely not an acceptable burden for that age group. She can protect herself perhaps, but not be responsible for others against an adult. Feel free to doubt me, you will find out the very hard way.

From what you have described of this man, I am truly surprised that SS signed you off of Child Protection allowing him unsupervised access to the children at all. Where did this contact take place? Hopefully never at his. Is he even supposed to be in your home? They will see you as too weak to protect your children if you haven't maintained boundaries.

You need to stop focusing on him having contact and urgently focus on your own behaviour here. Protect your children from him and get your priorities straight.

You could both lose your children.

The access was agreed with Childrens services and that is what I have stuck to! He is allowed in my home, but they are not to go to his without me, I am deemed as being able to protect them.

God. Everyone says I’m not trying to protect my children, yes I am. That is why I asked about her being included because she is able to tell them what he is like better than the others and because she is aware of what he can be like more than the others as she lived with it longer

I am at no risk of losing my children. I took steps to keep them safe, I kept the relevant Agencies informed every step of the way, I arranged counselling and I arranged the contact in a safe way that was agreed.

Now I am trying to divorce he has decided that’s it’s just not good enough and that he is going to take me to court.

I do not let them go to his house,I don’t know how many ways to say that, i don’t want him having overnights, I don’t know how many times I can say that, but he now does so is taking me to court

My eldest was not there to protect them, but she does actually see him in the same way as the others which is currently a trip out every week or so and she is hurt that he hasn’t included her because she feels like she doesn’t matter to him.
Also at 14 she has a phone and is able to contact me if the shit hits the fan. How do you think a five year old will get hold of me.

It was a simple question about whether or not she could be excluded and whether or not she could have her wishes and feelings listened to and on this thread I’ve been accused of alienating them, muddying the water for real DV victims with my alleged DV claims (despite it being dealt with by the Police) and now I’m being accused of not protecting my children.

OP you clearly have serious concerns about him having contact. He has been violent and abusive and is clearly manipulative.

So why in gods name would you want your DD to go on visits?

He is either fit to have them or he isnt. You have said he is a liar, so can you actually trust him?

Seriously you NEED to step back a bit and get some legal advice.

Or don't.

I am taking legal advice.

I simply asked on here in case anyone had any experience of this.

I do not want any of the children going on visits, hence one of the reasons I stayed with him, he never wanted to be on his own with them.

Now he has decided he does want them and has armed himself with a solicitor and court forms.

I am trying to think of how if they have to go or can be easier for them all and not being split up is one of the ways.

God sake.

I have experience. You just aren't listening.

You said upthread that you have a solicitor for the divorce, not these proceedings.

Good luck OP. I cannot add anything helpful.

Yes. I have a solicitor for the Divorce, that same solicitor will help me with this, but due to finances I need to self rep for most of it, so if I can research my own stuff then I do.

Doesnt make much sense. He is a terrible man but you want him to accept all your children and are asking how you can make than happen and not asking how you can prevent contact?

Also, you would be entitled to legal aid.

I don't understand this.

I didn't specifically state you were muddying the waters I just said there are very many false allegations of domestic abuse which result in posts like mine and disbelief sadly.

As above you need some legal help I suspect. If you have an IDVA she can likely explain how to make that happen.

@Skeptadad

Doesnt make much sense. He is a terrible man but you want him to accept all your children and are asking how you can make than happen and not asking how you can prevent contact?

Also, you would be entitled to legal aid.

I don't understand this.

I didn't specifically state you were muddying the waters I just said there are very many false allegations of domestic abuse which result in posts like mine and disbelief sadly.

As above you need some legal help I suspect. If you have an IDVA she can likely explain how to make that happen.

I do not really want any of them going. However, I am very much aware from these boards alone, that at some point they will be going and I would prefer that they all went instead of being split up! They are a lot happier all together and I do not want a divide and conquer with some children being more special than others. The children see him as they want to buy in a way that I deem safe, however, once it goes to court I can only present the evidence I have, but it’s out of my hands.

No, I am not entitled to Legal Aid, I am about £30pm over the threshold, so in order to keep legal fees down I get as much general info as I can from here, Google and Coram legal services.

I am doing all I can to minimise his ability to have them at his, but a simple search in here will show you how many abusive men get a decent % of time with their children.

Sadly, I am not a money pit, so I can’t just pay the Solicitor to do it for me, I need to self rep with assistance.

To keep costs down, you could use a barrister, paralegal or Mckenzie friend

Thankyou, I did look into a barrister but it’s about £2500 per court attendance. I think that includes my paperwork as well.
Have not looked into a Paralegal and I’m not sure on McKenzie friends as opinion seems to be a bit divided on them sometimes

Sadly even a court cannot force a bio parent to see their own child/ren if they don't want to. You will not be able to force him to see your eldest child. That is crystal clear.

Nor would I want to put my child in a position where they are doing something against their will, against the other adult's wishes, in order to somehow protect their siblings. Way too much responsibility.

He may very well get contact with the younger ones; they have a right to a relationship with him, not the other way round.

Keep clear in your mind the safeguarding concerns - if it is not safe then you shouldn't be allowing contact for any of them, never mind asking your eldest to chaperone/protect the younger ones.

Try the wikivorce website and forum, saved me a fortune when I was going through it.

My eldest was not there to protect them, but she does actually see him in the same way as the others which is currently a trip out every week or so and she is hurt that he hasn’t included her because she feels like she doesn’t matter to him
So did you explain to her that it wasnt because he loves her less but because going to court when the court cant force her to go would be pointless? Or does it suit your agenda to let her believe he did it because he doesn't care about her?

It's horrible to let her believe this is the case, really horrible.

Why does your oldest child know anything about this situation?? You should never ever have told her anything about the court procedures until she is either needed for interview, or it has finished. Telling her her father effectively doesn't want her will do no good girl her mental health. Also he has no legal standing to support her or parental rights. He would have been advised of this so will not anyway even if he wants to try to get contact with her.

Stop using your kids as a sounding board. Court is horrendous, keep them out of it.

Honestly it sounds like you are putting way too much on your dd1 shoulders. She should not being knowing the details of the court case and what your ex is doing. She should not feel responsible for her siblings when they are there. You mention that the younger kids had to get counselling due to witnessing a dv incident. Get reports from there. Do not put more burden on your daughter regarding get her giving reports and statements and stop using her as a sounding board.

Your ex sadly can do what he is doing. Sadly you and your dd saw him as her father. He sadly does not.

@vivainsomnia

My eldest was not there to protect them, but she does actually see him in the same way as the others which is currently a trip out every week or so and she is hurt that he hasn’t included her because she feels like she doesn’t matter to him So did you explain to her that it wasnt because he loves her less but because going to court when the court cant force her to go would be pointless? Or does it suit your agenda to let her believe he did it because he doesn't care about her?

It's horrible to let her believe this is the case, really horrible.

Absolutely. And I'm a bit confused, it's not him or a new partner of his thats the issue, but someone else he lives with? Sibling? Parent?

OP if you’re in the West Midlands I can recommend a good McKenzie Friend.

I think I’ve experienced something similar, it’s not the parent who is causing the concerns but it’s someone they are connected to and behaviour the parent is normalising? When it’s most definitely not normal?

Where are you in the court process? Have you had paperwork from him? A FHDR? How long has he been having minimal contact with the children?

Also if he included a child he does not have parental responsibility for, it gives you more to contest. He can still take her for contact if you all want that, without a court order. It’s just that he isn’t seeking the right to take her with court backup.