Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Court for child arrangements

63 replies

Purpinks · 09/06/2021 14:21

Hi there

Dp has applied to the court through his solicitor for child arrangements. He's been to mediation with his ex and she won't budge so solicitor says this is the next best step.

So bit of background, dp and his exw have been seperated for 5 1/2 years and dp has had ds eow, plus 1 night during week since then. Dp has had ds during school holidays as much as exw will allow, it seems to be on her terms as she doesn't seem to think they should share contact during school holidays. Dp has never been able to have his ds at Christmas, it's exw birthday on Xmas eve and she believes her children should be with her to celebrate this.

Dp is basically fed up of only having access when it suits his ex so wants child arrangements to be made legal. What he will be asking for is to carry on with seeing ds eow, but also half of the school holidays and for those dates to be confirmed a year in advance. He also wants alternate Christmas.

How do you think the courts will view this? Or anyone been through something similar?

OP posts:

Juneisjoyful · 09/06/2021 14:23

Sounds a fair basic request. Not sure how his ex could argue any of it.
Bet she does though!

Original poster

Purpinks · 09/06/2021 14:30

I think she definitely will. My best guess will be that she will say that the journey is too tiring (we live approx 70 miles away from ds) or that he will miss out on his weekend clubs every other week.

I don't think the distance is an issue at all as he's 10 but I do understand about the weekend clubs. Dp has booked him into local swimming lessons that are understanding that it will be eow.

OP posts:

Freehugs · 09/06/2021 22:25

Why has it taken 5 and half years for your dh to take it to court?
What does your dss want?

CassandraTrotter · 09/06/2021 22:31

Yes good question. What does dss want? Is he ok with missing his clubs every other weekend? Are you ok with all the extra driving?

StoneColdBitch · 10/06/2021 00:24

I know PPs have asked what DSS wants, but a 10-year-old isn't always able to make a decision that is in their own long-term best interests. For example, they may not understand that reducing contact now may impact on their long-term relationship with the NRP. They may not understand the long-term consequences of less contact with the NRP. They may struggle to separate out what they want from what the RP wants.

Original poster

Purpinks · 10/06/2021 07:26

In hindsight, dp wishes he did go through the courts when they first seperated. Unfortunately he didn't and this is where we are now.

And regarding the clubs, they've only just started back up again so I don't know how he feels now but sometimes dp would struggle to get him to go to them. I think he might protest about the swimming lessons as there's lots of things more fun to do in his eyes but dp thinks it's really important he knows how to swim.

Dp would never directly ask him what he wants as he doesn't think its appropriate. It's obvious he loves being here and we all have a great time. Dp makes sure ds knows he wishes he could spend more time with him but obviously he is oblivious to the reason why he doesn't spend more time here. The driving is not an issue at all.

OP posts:

vivainsomnia · 10/06/2021 07:45

Does your OH travel 70 miles every mid week to have dinner for him?

vivainsomnia · 10/06/2021 07:45

Sorry with not for!

Original poster

Purpinks · 10/06/2021 07:51

@vivainsomnia

Does your OH travel 70 miles every mid week to have dinner for him?

He has been doing, he stays over night and takes him to school aswell, and will for another couple of months but he's in the process of selling his house where dp lives as we can't continue to afford to run both properties. So this will stop when the house sells.

OP posts:

GrandmasCat · 10/06/2021 07:52

I think what he is asking is pretty reasonable and basic, but this kid is only 2 years away from his opinion and wishes being considered in court so, I would ask the kid (indirectly and without pressure) how would he feel about changing the arrangements as there is no point of going through a battle that may last for months on end and cost a fortune just to have DS saying that he prefers not to be away visiting dad on the weekends as he wants to spend more time with his local friends now that he is in secondary school.

Original poster

Purpinks · 10/06/2021 08:04

He already spends eow with us so we're not asking for that to change. Dp wants to spend half the school holidays with him aswell as alternate Christmas's. That's what he would be requesting that is different in court.

The past 2 school holidays dss has spent the full holidays in after school club so his mum isn't actually wanting him to stay at home to spend time with him but rather not want him to spend time with us.

OP posts:

ElsieMc · 11/06/2021 12:39

I think what is being asked is reasonable but at age 10 his ds is getting to the age where friendships/clubs become more important as he moves towards secondary school. I am a gp carer and my gs began to resent contact with his dad (who basically just left him with his parents all weekend) as he wanted to be at clubs/friends etc. That said, your ss seems happy at contact at present.

I know an earlier poster has said that at 10 he cannot understand the long term implications of reducing contact but I can assure you that not taking the views of a maturing child into account (so long as it is their view) is equally as damaging. Contact can go from steady and happy to resentment at enforced (which it will be with a court order) rigid contact.

As time went on, my gs was still attending contact but leaving their house and meeting friends or asking to meet his brother who lives with us. It was clear he did not want to be there and it did not end happily. I do not think there would have been the breakdown in their relationship if they had been understanding and more flexible.

Is there no way your dh could appeal to her again because court makes matters bitter and viewpoints become entrenched. I don't think your dh is unreasonable but I would avoid court at all costs.

Original poster

Purpinks · 11/06/2021 15:19

Hi ElsieMc - thanks for your thoughts

I agree with what your saying, and I have thought about it myself that as he gets older then he would want to spend more time with friends. I have a teenage dd and at age 10 she was certainly out and about with her friends.

At the moment dss doesnt see friends at the weekends and I think that's mainly due to his school being so far away from where he lives but when he is in secondary school that will change I'm sure. And ofcouse dp wants him to spend time with his friends and we've discussed maybe bringing a friend with him on the odd occasion etc.

I think we've exhausted all routes in negotiations with his Mum. The last letter hinted that if she received more money off dp she might be more amenable. ( dp has always paid maintenance, more than a fair amount )

There's also other considerations, we want dss to maintain a close bond with our dd, his sister. I know as he gets older he won't be so interested in a little sister as much, but he's a cheeky fun little chappy at the moment and they love their time together.

The other consideration is dp eldest daughter seems to be the main carer for dss when he's at home, which isn't fair on either of them and she needs to live her own life, she shouldn't be assuming such a motherly role, it's quite sad really and I know this is a huge concern for my dp.

Court really is the last option but I think its the only way to go at the moment.

OP posts:

ElsieMc · 11/06/2021 16:18

I wish you luck then op. It is disturbing to hear that his ex has intimated she would be more amenable if she received more money. That means she has no issue with the contact you have requested.

I don't get where she is coming from with this because if you have dss more, then child support will inevitably reduce. Or is this the issue for her?

Original poster

Purpinks · 11/06/2021 17:30

From what dp tells me she is a very money oriented lady. Dp doesn't want to reduce maintenance payments if our contact with dss increases and has made her aware she wouldn't lose any money if we have dss more.

I don't understand where she is coming from either, but I don't think the best interests of her ds is at the forefront of her mind.

OP posts:

GrandmasCat · 11/06/2021 18:24

If she has older kids, she may be coming from that perspective.

I never imagined how quickly a kid could go from a happy homebody to a sociable kid who wants to spend most of the time with his friends until DS started secondary school… I walked him to the bus stop on Monday morning and on Thursday night he announced he was not coming back for dinner on Friday as he was “going to town” with his friends after school. Yeah right, we didn’t allow him to but… he got to that level of independence within a year (more like when we relaxed, as he was ready much earlier than us).

We also found that the usual “bring a friend with you” didn’t work anymore. Neither he or his friends were particularly interested to spend time with us, they wanted their own space and the flexibility of organising their own time and activities.

I think you have left it a bit too late but I would suggest that if the only thing you want is more time with him during the holidays, just mention about the plans and invite him to come along, that would be easier, cheaper and less traumatic that going to court.

Original poster

Purpinks · 13/06/2021 12:09

If dp doesnt go ahead with his application to court then he will have to accept that he will never spend Christmas day with his son, never have him for more than eow. His mum hasn't allowed him to spend any of the school holidays with us for over a year despite asking each and every time so we can safely assume that going forward, he wouldn't "be allowed" to spend half the school holidays with us in the future.

The main problem is there is no reasoning with his Mum, he doesn't want her ds to spend time here but doesn't seem to spend time with him herself.

I fully appreciate that dss will want to spend time with his friends when he is older. But spending longer periods of quality time with his Dad and his sister seems far more important at the moment. When he is here he spends the whole time glued to his Dad, he clearly misses him a great deal and loves his time with him.

That's why he is going to court, fully understanding that it's going to be a hugely stressful and expensive experience, but not trying is just not an option.

OP posts:

GrandmasCat · 14/06/2021 18:05

We have the same problem with my partner’s kids, mum would never allow a Christmas with us and we are unable to organise any holidays as she never let us know about dates until it is too late to book. We have also had weekend holidays cut short because she arranged stuff with the kids on the dates they were supposed to be on holidays with us.

But looking at the psycopathic monster my ex became after I tried to put in writing the pattern in contact we had in place, and having observed my partner’s ex doesn’t give a shit about throwing the kids in the middle of conflict and all the drama she seems to thrive on, we have opted to accept we won’t have his kids with us for holidays or Christmas for their own sake, to protect them from the rages of their mum.

Skeptadad · 14/06/2021 19:13

I don't understand all this "allow". Children have two parents. If one parent is impossible go to court and get arrangements defined.

I arranged mediation within 3 days of my ex leaving and she had an invitation to court after 2 weeks not turning up. I can't say I have much sympathy for a parent being pushed around who doesn't take legal recourse.

How very sad that your partners children won't be having Christmas with him as you have decided to placate a bully.

Original poster

Purpinks · 14/06/2021 20:35

Grandmascat, my dp has spend 24 years protecting his kids from the rages of their mum, so I completely understand where you are coming from.

He's come to the realisation that it doesn't help and eventually the child will either grow up and rebel or end up being controlled in the same way my dp was.

That's why he is doing everything he can to change things now.

Skeptidad, I'm glad you got your access sorted in a timely manner, good for you and obviously I genuinely mean that. But please bare in mind that life isn't black and white and men can suffer abuse, and struggle to challenge a bully. Maybe have sympathy for a parent who loves their child and is doing everything he can to make sure he can be part of his child's life.

OP posts:

Skeptadad · 14/06/2021 21:09

I was questioned by the police for a fabricated rape allegation and she caused me to lose ma very lucrative role.

It never stopped me fighting for my daughter. Only a double barreled shot gun would!

GrandmasCat · 15/06/2021 00:37

I arranged mediation within 3 days of my ex leaving and she had an invitation to court after 2 weeks not turning up.

You had it easy, one of my friends was in and out of court for access for 6 years. The process totally destroyed my friend, the father and above all the kid, both emotionally and financially (£60,000 on her side and she didn’t even win)

I wouldn’t get the kids in such trouble for just a year or so before Gillick Competence kicks in, or at least, I would wait until it does and the kid’s wishes can be considered in court.

Castlepeak · 15/06/2021 05:18

Taking him 70 miles away from his activities every other weekend is a real concern, especially as he gets older. Fairly soon that could interfere with school related activities, not just recreational sports clubs.

An official schedule and shared custody is in his son’s best interests, but dad needs to move closer to make that practical.

prh47bridge · 15/06/2021 09:22

I wouldn’t get the kids in such trouble for just a year or so before Gillick Competence kicks in, or at least, I would wait until it does and the kid’s wishes can be considered in court.

The child's wishes are always a consideration in court. How much weight their wishes carry depends on the child's understanding.

Original poster

Purpinks · 15/06/2021 10:15

Castlepeek, unfortunately Dad can't move closer. I have a dd in secondary school and it wouldn't be fair to move area/change schools.

OP posts:

Flip

1 2 3