Probate.

[Noidea2114]

What happens in probate.
DAunt has suddenly passed away on Friday (58) No children.
She has lots of different accounts. We have found her will. We don't have POA.
In we I mean myself and my male cousin. Looking at her savings accounts we have noticed that a lot of money went out in the last few months.
In total about £30k. I'm worried that we will have to pay inheritance tax even though we haven't been given the money.
We both are the only beneficiarys. Her whole estate will add up to about £275k.
We don't know what solicitor to appoint or can we do it ourselves.

Bump

How was the money going out? She couldn't have spent that herself, could she? Who had access to her bank account?

Inheritance tax has to be below £325,000.

Sorry, I mean the threshold for inheritance tax is £325,000.

Whoever is named as the executor in her will needs to apply for probate and distribute the estate according to the will.

Personally I'd appoint a solicitor unless you're confident with the process, inc tax returns.

I've been executor 3 times and it's no fun, especially if there's property involved.

I should add that Poa is meaningless once the person has died and without probate you can do little except arrange the funeral

I'm sorry for your loss.

If it’s fairly simple then you can do it yourself. Once you’ve registered the death you can use the Tell Us Once service to notify all the government departments about her death www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you-need-to-contact-and-tell-us-once

Then start going through her accounts and notify all the different banks, you’ll usually need to show her death certificate and will. They can release enough money to pay for the funeral.

The inheritance tax threshold is £325k so even with the £30k recently paid out you should still be below that limit.

You will need to get everything properly valued in order to have records of the value to show HMRC if they ask.

Banks, pensions etc will want to see probate papers

We can't find anything to say someone else has access. I phoned her twice a week and cousin did the same.
We haven't been able to visit for a couple of months because of lockdown. We both live about 100 miles away.
As far as we can see she hasn't spent it on the house. It was a sudden death as until Friday she was fit and healthy.
It's not as though the bank will tell us as I say we don't have POA.
Will be contacting a solicitor tomorrow.
It's that we don't want the tax office coming after us as this money has gone out.
I know that she could give out £3k per year from her taxable allowance but it never came to us.
More info has come to light one of her ISA'S has been completely emptyed that one had £40k.
Cousin thinks we should lift the floorboards just in case.

You need probate to talk to the banks and it takes time. In the first couple of weeks you really just need to make her house safe, let her house insurers know and arrange a funeral.

I did my deceased FIL’s probate, his estate was just under the IHT limit. The form you fill in is quite simple. The probate helpline is also very helpfull, and they will tell you what you need to do and what forms you need to complete. You need to get several copies of the death certificate and will to either take to the bank, or if you can do, most banks have a “what to do when someone dies” section on website, where you can upload copies of everything needed. The banks will freeze accounts, so you will need to contact all utilities, direct debits etc.

If you are both executors and beneficiaries you can apply for probate. It's not too difficult to do if you are ok with form filling.

The Power of Attorney thing is a non issue as any POA voids on death.

Once you have probate you collect the estate in and then pay any tax due including any tax due it is only then that the beneficiaries get their share on the distribution of the estate. So you aren't personally responsible for paying the tax due.

It is curious that your Aunt has apparently given away, if I'm reading your post right, in the region of 70k in recent months. It sounds like she could have been the victim of some sort of scam if she doesn't have assets to match the withdrawals. Worth some investigating when you have access to her bank accounts.

I would strongly advise you to consult a Solicitor, and seek their advice. Most will offer a package, deal with HRMC, the sale of any Property/House they may have owned, and do a financial search to uncover any hidden assets.

The cost of the Solicitors fees are deducted from the estate assets, so there is normally very little to be paid out upfront, apart from maybe the cost of the death Certificate. You can use the Government’Tell me once’ service to deal with cancelling any previous or freezing any Bank assets details of which should be provide along with the Death certificate when you collect it.

Probate is not a quick process, our solicitors reference to it as a Probate Year, as that is the average time that it takes to sort out a persons Estate and deal with their assets after they died.

It's the missing money we are concerned about.
No cleaner, gardener and her husband died in December of last year.
She was quite savvy over life so cannot imagine her being scammed.
No other beneficiaries and she only changed her will in February.

When you see an amount has gone out of her account, where has it gone to? Has it gone to another account or has it been taken out in cash?

IF there is no property you can do it all without probate, go and rea dup on line on the .gov website. I have done one with and one without probate in the late 12 months. You need death certificate and also the original Will. She should have named executors in the will they will be responsible for establishing what she has, filling out the online IHT paperwork before submitting for probate with full details of what she has (at least approximate doesn't have to be exact to the pound for e,g,) if it goes over the threshold you just write and tell them. and once probate is granted you then collect it in and distribute accordingly. Any cost of services and funeral come from her estate before distribution and any gifts from the estate in the last 7 years above a certain amount (ie more than 3k per annum or standard birthday/wedding type gifts) have to be declared and the estate is responsible for any IHT due but sounds like you will be under the limit anyway even with the 30k. But yes it would be worth investigating where that went.

Dads probate we had granted within 3 weeks of death so it taking a year is solicitors fannying around in my view. If there are numerous accounts but you are fairly certain you know them all you can apply and if anything more comes to light it can be declared later. Get post redirected helps as things quickly come to light with postal statements an the like. If there is property to sell you definitely should apply for probate asap as that will be needed to do anything.

The taxman won't come after you just because she has given away £30k of her estate. The question is whether her total estate comes to more than £325k. That includes any gifts she gave in the 7 years preceding her death. Even if ITH is payable, it must be paid by the estate. HMRC will not expect you and your cousin to pay it personally.

My main concern would be to find out where the money has gone. Is it legitimate or has someone been stealing from her.

Sorry for your loss. I found Probate very straightforward to do myself.
As your aunt was married her IHT threshold doubles up to 650k. It can go up to about a million if a property is left to direct family members (not sure if nieces and nephews are included).
It sounds very odd that all that money was taken out so recently. I'd make sure accounts are frozen in case someone has her bank details. I think you can do this with just her death certificate.
Btw not sure if you mentioned this, but most banks will release funds to pay for funeral on receipt of an invoice.

Probate is not a quick process, our solicitors reference to it as a Probate Year, as that is the average time that it takes to sort out a persons Estate and deal with their assets after they died

That’s because they make a meal of it to justify their extortionate fees. I applied for probate for both my parents’ estates. It took four months the first time and three the second.

Yes I sorted my mum's out in a couple of months. Would have been even quicker without an annoying co-executor.

The government helpline is really very helpful if you have any queries.

Has her will been witnessed by a solicitor? If so you could contact them if you need help sorting her affairs. Her house will need to be valued as at date of death for Probate. Are you and your cousin listed as executors in her will, as well as beneficiaries?

We have just received grant of probate for a death last June. We've now been told that due to Covid (of course!) release of assets could take equally as long.

If she owns her house, be mindful not to undervalue it.

Very odd about the money. Maybe she moved it into Premium Bonds? Just speculating as a lot of people seem to be doing that as savings interest is so low.

If you look at the list published of grants of probate on the govt website you can see that over the last year many have taken a long time.