Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Interpretation of Court Order - Ex pushing at every opportunity

63 replies

FieldofDreams1 · 12/04/2021 10:22

New Court order in place for contact.

Brief history for context: ex and I split many years ago (very controlling, affairs, moods etc etc.), 2 lovely DC now early teens

Control ramped up a couple of years ago when I met new partner. ExH started using the kids to arrange contact that wasn't agreed, dropped them off days later than arranged etc etc. so went to court to get an agreement sorted. This is now in place but how I wish I had specified every detail, down to the minute they should be dropped off etc. He is now interpreting vague parts of the order and this is where I'd like legal advice please.

We have agreed to split holidays 50/50, and this Easter the arrangements are to be 'For half this holiday to alternate each year between the first and the second half. The handover will be at 10am on the mid point day'. It's his turn second half of the Easter hols this year.

He has already tried to argue that the mid-point day of this 17 day holiday isn't the 9th day, and that it is the 8th day because their last day of school counts as the first day of the holiday. We have finally agreed on the 9th day as the mid point day. However, I also requested the children were dropped back on the last day of the holidays at 5pm. He has fought against this and said he would drop the children at school on the Tuesday (they are due back to school on Mon), then when I said that this wasn't in the agreement he said OK then he'll drop them to sch Monday as this is still part of their holiday. He then blocked me ..

It's so exhausting. I have sent them without their school things as I still think that they should return here with their holidays clothes and things etc at the end of Sunday. He has since sent me a text saying that I am in breach of the court order, and demanding I courier their school clothes over.

There is part of me that just thinks jeez, it's only a day why make such a fuss but even my solicitor said that I am too reasonable, and I think that if I give in then he will continue push other things too. But what if he doesn't drop them back on Sun? What can I do about it if the wording is so vague on the order? How would you interpret when the kids should be dropped back? IS the Monday the norm, or the Sunday?

Thank you!

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 12/04/2021 10:28

I would completely ignore him - you are under no obligation to respond

On the Sunday I would send a text saying 'if you're not dropping them back this evening then I will be at home after 6 for you to pick up their school clothes/bags'

Ignore anything in texts/emails that are about him trying to discuss/deflect or argue - use a neutral tone and have your own boundaries

Never respond on his timescale - I'm guessing he sends multiple texts and then you get in to a pattern of responding/reacting - this is him getting the contact with you he wants

Leave hours/days between responses - send the text above on the Sunday morning

Keep very firm boundaries around your time including when you respond to him

LaurieFairyCake · 12/04/2021 10:29

There's no such thing as the norm when you're dealing with someone this difficult- he's trying to get you to argue over the court order

Original poster
FieldofDreams1 · 12/04/2021 11:02

Thank you - he does often send follow up texts if I don’t respond! And usually turn accusatory.

OP posts:
Whiskyinajar · 12/04/2021 11:10

What a nightmare, thank goodness your children are teens now...at some point they will refuse to go of he makes their lives difficult for school.

MAV34 · 12/04/2021 11:21

If he is the non resident parent, I would assume that he would want as much time as possible with your children during the holidays. Then there might always be a tension around handover arrangements. I would ask yourself does it really matter in the big of scheme of things if the kids get dropped directly at school? I appreciate if you havn’t done this before, but lots of parents do handover on a monday morning. As they develop into their teens they will increasingly be able to manage and negotiate their own time, limiting the need for you and ex to be in contact. These things are really tricky and I hope you manage to find a way through.

Wishitsnows · 12/04/2021 11:25

What do your kids want to do. Would they prefer to get back Sunday and ready for school? At their ages their views are taken into account.

Original poster
FieldofDreams1 · 12/04/2021 13:02

Thanks for replying

The kids want to keep the peace, they will say what they think others want to hear. I really don't want them caught up in the 'what do you want' as it will cause them tension.

MAV34 and Wishitsnows - he has never wanted to spend more time with the children, funnily enough until now. This is not about spending more time with them, this is about him being a controlling arsehole. If I'd have said Monday morning, he'd have said Sunday evening. Or anything else. Like arguing about the mid day of the holidays, I mean he tried to say different when it was so black and white!

OP posts:
dontdisturbmenow · 12/04/2021 15:35

What a lot if nonsense. Don't at his games, don't argue with him. If he wants another day, so what.

In the end, your kids are coming to an age they will be making their own choices and you bet they'll want to be with the more laid-back parent.

It's horrible as a kid to be stuck in the middle. It's very stressful because they'll want either of you to be upset.

Pick your battles.

GettingItOutThere · 12/04/2021 15:48

if he replies, id turn it around (hard as it is)

"ok then their uniform will be available for you to collect sunday 6 till 6-15pm, then I am unavailable as I am meeting friends/going out/just unavaiable

guarantee the kids will be back sunday night to wreck your "plans"!

Original poster
FieldofDreams1 · 12/04/2021 19:38

Dontdisturbmenow - thanks I totally agree, last thing I want is for them to feel stuck in the middle. I don’t want them to know anything about the disagreements and part of the court order was for him to not involve the kids directly as he has in the past.

GettingOutOfThere - that’s just what he would do!

I haven’t responded to that text he sent literally 5 mins after he picked the kids up, which was Sat morning. No follow up texts yet saying what a bad mother I am which is surprising.

OP posts:
Rtmhwales · 12/04/2021 19:48

I feel your pain. DP's XW is like this with their court order. Thankfully theirs is 90% specified to the minute. It actually says things like "parenting time until Sunday 18:59 with Parent B assuming time at 19:00"! But there was some ambiguity about holiday times and she uses that each year to cause drama. I'd do what was suggested about. Offer to leave out the uniforms etc from 5pm the Sunday because you have plans and just leave him to it. No back and forth, no discussion.

Original poster
FieldofDreams1 · 16/04/2021 14:34

True to form I have had 2 further texts..

The first telling me to stop playing games, and to avoid him having to initiate proceedings to let him know when he is getting their uniform, as his solicitor is 'awaiting his call'. Oh, and to avoid him raising my perjury at the hearing when I apparently misled the court with a statement I'd made.

The second as predicted was to tell me to act like a mother, and to put the children first for once.

Could the timings possible be agreed at mediation so we don't have to go through this every bloody holiday? Thanks!

OP posts:
SakuraEdenSwan1 · 16/04/2021 17:42

Surely your children are old enough to decide when and where they want too see their dad without going to court?

bluecitygirl · 16/04/2021 19:01

Surely he is responsible for school uniform when he has them.

ChestyLaRue21 · 16/04/2021 19:19

My ex is exactly the same, it’s all about control. I found what works is using simple one line texts and not engaging in a back and forth. Previously I would have sent long messages about why he was being unreasonable but it just fed into his need for attention. I also blocked him on watsapp and communicated only by text message as I find watsapp too invasive.

As others have said, I would specify a day and time that he can collect the uniform and leave them outside the front door. You can then say that you gave him an option to collect rather than giving him an excuse to paint you as the unreasonable one for not replying.

Keep his abusive messages and print them for the next mediation meeting where you can use them as a basis for wanting to specify exact timings. This might make him think twice about sending more in future!

RandomMess · 16/04/2021 19:37

🙄

What an arse.

StoneColdBitch · 21/04/2021 23:23

To be fair, if he is meant to have half of the school holidays, I would interpret that as the parent who has the first half picking up from school on the last day of term, and the parent who has the second half dropping off on the first day of the new term. Tbh I can see how from his perspective he thinks you are in breach of the order. Why wouldn't you compromise and let him drop them back at school on the Monday, or offer an additional night of holiday contact if you wanted them back a night early?

Aalvarino · 21/04/2021 23:33

Just make uniform available for collection (courier my arse!). That's it. I'd personally let him take them to school on the Monday.
He sounds insufferable. Thank goodness you escaped.

PresentingPercy · 22/04/2021 09:30

Tell him to buy a second set of uniform and drop them at school. If you don’t want continual arguments, is this the hill to die on? I would let him do this because your DC are pigs in the middle. It’s not unreasonable really. You then get an extra night at another time. Make sure of that. In the end DC will decide what’s reasonable for them!

Original poster
FieldofDreams1 · 24/04/2021 09:59

Update - and thank you to those who have replied, I know I get a balanced view on MN

I sent the text message on Saturday: 'If you are not dropping off the children on Sunday evening then their school things will be available to collect between x and x time'

I got a massive text back saying how I was messing the kids about, they are anxious and because of this they HAVE to be dropped off Sunday night. At 7pm. And they will not have had tea.

I said great, and thank you.

Then another text sunday at 6pm saying that he would drop them off earlier, like 'now'. I said, no 7 please thanks.

Now we are arguing about which is the 'normal pattern of every other weekend' after the Easter holidays. He is calling all the time, sending texts saying he will contact my employer etc etc. threatening court, telling me I'm silly and blaming me for 'affecting the children's welfare'.

I have this week contacted a mediator and have a MIAM booked. We can try to work on agreeing times for the whole year to avoid this back and forth / texting all the time exhausting behaviour.

OP posts:
Aalvarino · 24/04/2021 11:31

Well, he's a dementor isn't he?? I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Original poster
FieldofDreams1 · 24/04/2021 11:57

Dementor haha. When I moved in with my DP he called the police and told them I’d been abducted. Seriously.

OP posts:
PresentingPercy · 24/04/2021 13:03

Well, between you, it can be no fun being your DC. Please try and agree something.

Would it have mattered if he had dropped them off "now"? If you were at home, is it worth the argument? You seem intgent of having everfy last word. Yes its annoying but an easy life would just let him drop them off "now" and cut out all the arguments. It sounds horrid for your DC.

Also. Why can your DC not say what they want? Whatg would suit them? Not you or him. How old are they? Did I miss that?

fuckyouRW · 24/04/2021 13:15

Then another text sunday at 6pm saying that he would drop them off earlier, like 'now'. I said, no 7 please thanks

Honestly, if you were home to receive them 'now', you should've said 'OK then', as it seems that he thrives off of making life hard for you - I imagine it would've annoyed him simply because it didn't seem to annoy you to take the kids back 'now'.

Aalvarino · 24/04/2021 13:47

He told the police you'd been... Abducted when you'd moved in with a new partner?? This guy is a harasser. It is not ok just to shut up and put up for a quiet life. Of course it is not nice for the children but this sounds like all his doing.

The way to go is ultra reasonable but not a pushover. Don't get drawn into arguments. Just keep it factual. When he drops them off, all smiles and how are yous... Don't play his damaging game. The kids will soon see the woods for the trees.