Interpretation of Court Order - Ex pushing at every opportunity

[FieldofDreams1]

New Court order in place for contact.

Brief history for context: ex and I split many years ago (very controlling, affairs, moods etc etc.), 2 lovely DC now early teens

Control ramped up a couple of years ago when I met new partner. ExH started using the kids to arrange contact that wasn't agreed, dropped them off days later than arranged etc etc. so went to court to get an agreement sorted. This is now in place but how I wish I had specified every detail, down to the minute they should be dropped off etc. He is now interpreting vague parts of the order and this is where I'd like legal advice please.

We have agreed to split holidays 50/50, and this Easter the arrangements are to be 'For half this holiday to alternate each year between the first and the second half. The handover will be at 10am on the mid point day'. It's his turn second half of the Easter hols this year.

He has already tried to argue that the mid-point day of this 17 day holiday isn't the 9th day, and that it is the 8th day because their last day of school counts as the first day of the holiday. We have finally agreed on the 9th day as the mid point day. However, I also requested the children were dropped back on the last day of the holidays at 5pm. He has fought against this and said he would drop the children at school on the Tuesday (they are due back to school on Mon), then when I said that this wasn't in the agreement he said OK then he'll drop them to sch Monday as this is still part of their holiday. He then blocked me ..

It's so exhausting. I have sent them without their school things as I still think that they should return here with their holidays clothes and things etc at the end of Sunday. He has since sent me a text saying that I am in breach of the court order, and demanding I courier their school clothes over.

There is part of me that just thinks jeez, it's only a day why make such a fuss but even my solicitor said that I am too reasonable, and I think that if I give in then he will continue push other things too. But what if he doesn't drop them back on Sun? What can I do about it if the wording is so vague on the order? How would you interpret when the kids should be dropped back? IS the Monday the norm, or the Sunday?

Thank you!

And why exactly should the op bend over backwards to accommodate this nonsense?? If you give these sorts an inch they will take a hundred miles. It's a form of post- separation coercive control. Please don't victim blame or imply the OP didn't try hard enough to smooth the waters for her children's sake. There is keeping the peace and there is modeling to the children that men call the shots. That is pretty damaging to their future happiness too.

Keep fighting then. It won’t end.

You can't really avoid all arguments with a dementor like this. They will pick at anything. I'm not actually advocating continued arguing back from the OP. I think she should calmly stand her ground and grey rock any attempts to argue. It really works. But what she should categorically not do is let this tiny be-penised one call all the shots and meekly submit to "keep the peace".

Hi

I attended the MIAM this afternoon and they are going to write to him to arrange a mediation so we can iron out times/days for the WHOLE year.

Then I receive a text saying that he took DS to rugby over the weekend (he has never played before), that he loved it and he has arranged for him to go to practice every Wednesday (when he is with me, not his DF) and for a school parent to pick him up from mine. Then to play matches every Sunday. 'Moving forwards you will need to support this so he attends on Wednesdays and Sundays'.

I mean... wtf? What do I do with this level of shite?? CF

Ask if DS really wants this? Or not. Does he want to play rugby? If not, DS won’t continue. It’s hardly a sport a disinterested kid would carry on doing. Bring it up at mediation and work out a timetable that works for DC if this is a genuine interest. If it’s not, ditch it. Does your child not have an opinion?

How old is DS?

If he is genuinely keen you can explain to what extent you can support and facilitate it or not.

If he needs kit then you will have to explain to DS that his Dad need to buy it.

If you can't and DS can't find a way of getting there and back then he will have to wait until he is order. You don't need to reply anything to your ex.

Is it likely DS is going along with it to keep ex happy?

Or you can simply tell ex and DS you are unable to facilitate Rugby so either his Dad does or DS can't play.

Any chance your partner would take DS and it would be a loving bonding opportunity for them and it would piss ex off.

I think your current partner taking him would be an absolute win, providing that your DS actually wants to go :)

And in the meantime, I would not respond. It's not on at all to arrange regular things for the other parent's contact time. It's one of the basic rules of separated parenting. He really is a class A tool.

I might also look at this in the context of what else DS does in spare time regarding sport and hobbies. If DS is sporty and likes rugby, he might like this idea. If he’s not enthusiastic it won’t be great. So try and ascertain what DS thinks. You must know if he’s sporty or not. Is he a rugby or football boy? I wouldn’t stop him going if he really wants to. That seems like punishing him. If he’s ambivalent, then you must talk to him about not going. And his dad!

gosh he is an annoying twat. good luck with sorting that out. Do you know the other parent and aare htey a safe lift?

Grey Rock the idiot as much as you can. When you actually need him to agree to something - like dropping the kids back on Sunday afternoon - offer the opposite, tell him to drop them at school on Monday morning. Then he'll demand a Sunday drop off.

Did your DS not mention the rugby plan? Early teens it’s really your DS’s choice, and if he is keen and it is possible somehow then obviously I’m sure you’ll sort it. It’s not up to your ex to make unilateral decisions and try to dictate to you, of course not - but what does DS want?

The problem is that lots of parents will fight back over everything and the child goes along with what each wants. They are so utterly conflicted they just do whatever is suggested to please. It’s pretty dire that the op doesn’t seem to know if DS would like this sport or not. Others encourage fighting ex every inch of the way but we don’t know if the DS really wanted to do this sport or not. The op hasn’t mentioned whether he might or would dislike it. Just that he’s not played before but that doesn’t tell us much.

I can see there is sheer annoyance at the arrangements and I would never rely on another parent but this child is stuck in the middle of this with no voice it would seem.

I suppose having them home Sunday wouldn't have made a difference if he had school uniform there unless they have to take a bag to dads house? Carrying around that would have been a pita for the day

I would have done the "7pm" thing too I did similar to my ex he decided I finished work at 4pm I said no i finish at 5pm he insisted I finish at 4pm and showed up at my place of work with the kids I left work at 5pm he sat in the car for an hour with the kids just to make a point im still not sure what the point was but he made it!

I’m sure your DC had a lovely hour with their dad. Or maybe not. Did they enjoy this scenario?

My ex went through a period of this designed to irritate me (he isn't at all interested in the kids) and the most effective solution turned out to be complete positivity about everything he suggested without putting myself out.

For example "I want to pick the kids up at bedtime on Friday instead of Saturday morning" got a reply of "yes of course - that actually works well for me because I'm going out and was going to have to pay a babysitter" followed by him swiftly cancelling :-)

I guess it depends on how much you think his wish for contact is genuine and how much is designed to piss you off. . .

Thanks everyone!
Just to clarify, ExDH had the kids over the weekend and took DS to Rugby (I had no idea, but great). It was then when he arranged for him to go to weekly practice on a Wed and matches on Sun, then told me what he’d organised.
Of course I know what DS likes - we have done gymnastics, skating, Scouts, riding, football. He’s never watched rugby or asked to go but then I don’t think I’ve asked him as it never occurred to me to. And as ExDH used to have the DCs every Sat we used to do other things on a Sun.

Anyway, I can see the enthused response as working but I need to think about it. Don’t want to start messing with the agreement in the order.

More texts about breaching court order, etc etc and he wants to take me to court. Let’s see if he agrees to mediation. I very much doubt it - far too easy.

🙄

He's a complete drama lama isn't he.

I would imagine the judge will tell him for taking it back to court when the kids are already teens and you offered mediation.

@FieldofDreams1 I have to say that it is endless with this sort of controlling abusive twat. Roll on the kids being old enough to decide for themselves, fortunately it sounds like you've only got another couple of years to get through now. With regard to the rugby, if you can do Wednesday nights and Sunday morning and your DS wants to go then fine, if you can't for whatever reason do one day or the other discuss it with DS but I'd be careful that this wasn't more about what your exH wants rather than something your DS genuinely wants to do. Also the mediation for the whole year's holidays sounds like a great plan if he will engage with the process. If he doesn't the next time he threatens court just say fine, you are looking forward to getting things buttoned down tightly and that you will be asking for much more specific rules about drop off and pick ups so you won't have to have these discussions. If the threat of court is something you would like to happen he will stop threatening it.

I hope he is planning on paying for the rugby

Contact agreed at court really needs a proper process, would save so many issues and repeated cases.

My advice is to print out a calendar on one page. Get the years contact on there and agree as much as possible now for the year. With weekends do they remain on the rotation or alter following contact? Include everything so any contact for bdays/Mother's Day/Father's Day/Xmas etc and send him a copy. Add a bit on it re hand over times. Then send a new one beginning of jan for next year.

Don't get me wrong it doesn't fix all the issues, but it will cut down the actual issues and usually any other contact is him just being a knob. When you can separate it out it's easier to see that and deal/ignore it.

Oh and any threats to take you back to court just reply ok, I'll await my letter

Would you consider blocking him and telling him to deal with your partner from now on? I agree with the poster who mentioned coercive control, that’s exactly right. Men like this are cowards and would never treat another man the same way.

For the last minute changes of arrangements, for example, when he texts looking for 6pm instead of 7pm, just don’t reply. Try it out and see what happens. When your kids are with him, they’re with him and your time is yours. He’s invading your personal time and space with the constant stream of communication and that’s not ok.

I went through 16 years of this with my ex and yours sounds so similar. My DS is now old enough where he can make his own arrangements to see his dad and he has seen him maybe 3 times in the last year? My DS isn’t interested in moving from house to house anymore and just wants to spend time with his friends and do his own thing.

For the last minute changes of arrangements, I totally disagree with other posters to just let him drop them off and not rock the boat. I used to get this on a Saturday where he would have an ‘emergency’ and want to drop DS at 1pm instead of 6pm. I’d believe him and scramble to cancel plans last minute but then this would happen every second week and the texts got nasty if I refused.

It’s exhausting dealing with someone like this, my heart goes out to you OP and I hope you find a solution.

I went through 10 years of this with my gs's dad, or rather paternal grandparent. They tried to ruin everything we did, even his holidays, demanding flight times etc and trying to prevent him going at the last minute. They even resented him having a lovely holiday in Cornwall rather than being happy. I can still remember the pained look of hate on his face. Such a controlling weirdo.

I used to respond angrily with letters and spent time on them when I should have been spending more time with gs ( we are gp carers). I can see now they were sent to worry us. Same with sport, gs was a talented footballer and they even tried to intervene in this and ruin it. They started off enthusiastic but once it became wet and cold, they wouldn't take him.

As hard as it is, you must limit contact for yourself. He is dealing with the rugby as though he gets to control you and make all the decisions. He does not. You decide what your child does on your time, not him. As hard as it is, I would simply not reply. It puts him on the backfoot. You then ask your ds what he really wants. I know how kids can be very enthusiastic to start with but I think it is what your ex wants here.

I hope you can get 12 months arrangements sorted op. But do take my advice to distance yourself, advice I did not take and it drove me absolutely mad.

Thought I’d continue this thread to give background rather than start a new one…

So the ‘dementor’ is still dementing. Court order says 7 days with him this half term, he says as one weekend is ‘his’ that he is having them for the 9 days over both weekends. This is a clear breach of the court order. What do I do if this happens? Call the police? I know effect on kids etc but this will keep happening if I don’t do something, but what?