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Legal matters

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Should I contest the Will?

162 replies

pickledcrumpet · 01/04/2021 09:22

My late parent passed away just over two years ago. They lived on their own but had a lot of assistance from a specific relative as well as daily meal service deliveries and nurse visits. They were also diagnosed with Alzheimer's. I lived a two hour plane trip away most recently and prior to that the other side of the world so only visited a few times a year as I had a demanding job and young family but I telephoned them nearly daily. This other relative let's call them "Sally" assumed more and more responsibility over the years and took over all financial affairs as power of attorney by the time my parent died. Unfortunately I never discussed the Will with my late parent, I was embarrassed and taught it was vulgar to talk about family money. I was made aware by "Sally" they had encouraged my late parent to write a Will. After the death I was told by Sally she was the executor and she told me the entire estate was to go to myself and my children. Having not dealt with the situation I did not question. Months passed and I was asked about sale of house and what would like to do with the proceeds but I hadn't been given the Will or knew any details as to the value of the estate/bank accounts etc. finally I bit the bullet and asked to see the Will and was surprised to learn I would not be managing my own children's estate until they were adults, Sally would. I sort legal advice and was told this is unusual and I should request I manage this as well as a list of assets and expenses to date. Salt refused both. I then engaged a lawyer who noted the Will was downloaded from the internet, and of very poor quality/unlikely to have been shown to a lawyer. I also then discovered there was also a codicil, after my lawyer requested to see it, we lessened approximately 1/3 of the estate would go to Sally and her children and it was signed 3 months prior to my late father passing. My lawyer also questioned the validity of the Will and codicil as Alzheimer's was on the death certificate. We have finally reached a point where sally has agreed to let me manage my children's inheritance but she is refusing to budge on the codicil written only 3 months prior to death. I have asked to have access to my late parents medical records as I don't know the date he was formally diagnosed but I have reason to bet it was prior to the Will and sally has refused. My only choice now is to take Sally to court. I know my late parent was incapable of writing a Will and also trusted Sally. They would have signed and agreed to anything Sally put in front of them. Going to court will be expense and I risk losing. Any advice on whether to go to court or bow out? I strongly believe Sally wrote the Will, Sally took advantage of my late parent and felt they should be compensated so added the codicil just prior to my late parents death. The fact that Sally is not willing to let me see the medical records I believe is also very telling. Thoughts?

OP posts:
pickledcrumpet · 02/04/2021 12:30

@prh47bridge that's very interesting. The original Will splits the estate as a % between the children and I. The codicil refers to a specific source of money which is roughly 1/3 of the value of the estate.

OP posts:
pickledcrumpet · 02/04/2021 12:35

The Will also had a clause stating if I contested the Will I would lose claim to everything. I assumed this was normal. This was the first thing my lawyer noticed. He said 101 law school you learn that only the court gets to decide ie the Will can't state this. I think this is why I didn't push anything to start with.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 12:37

she declined to my requests (list of assets, expenses and to manage my children's inheritance) and she declined all three

As executor she must produce the estate accounts. As a residuary beneficiary you are entitled to see the estate accounts. A refusal to disclose them rings huge alarm bells.

countrygirl99 · 02/04/2021 12:40

@ceilingsand

I'm shocked actually at how many people are defending a defrauder.
We don't know Sally is a defrauder just that the OP believes she is. The OP may be right or she may be wrong. Maybe Sally exerted undue influence, maybe she did more than the OP thinks and her dad wanted to show his gratitude. Maybe she was selflessly caring virtually full time and the OP is grabby. We have no way of knowing the actual truth. Those that really know about these things can advise the OP of her options and the risks, the rest of us probably have little to add to the discussion.
prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 12:51

No, we don't know that Sally is a defrauder but her behaviour (excessive secrecy, refusal to provide estate accounts) is not what one would expect if she is innocent.

ancientgran · 02/04/2021 13:44

Maybe she was nervous about telling the OP because she knew what the reaction would be. For my relative with dementia I've done all the work but I know the other relatives will all be wanting their share when the time comes but they were all too busy with jobs and children to actually do anything. I'm looking forward to their reaction when they realise the £2,500 a week I'm paying from her money so she can stay in a really lovely place means there won't be much for them to fight about.

ancientgran · 02/04/2021 13:48

His first advice to me was to contest the Will as my father had Alzheimer's as the kids % share was greater than mine.

Well he should know that someone with Alzheimers can make a will, just like anyone else it depends on their capacity, and anyone can decide to leave their grandchildren more than their children, it can be a sensible move if your children are doing OK and the money will make more of a difference to the GC and can also be sensible inheritance tax planning by missing out one stage.

Are you sure about the advice you are getting?

countrygirl99 · 02/04/2021 15:30

@prh47bridge

No, we don't know that Sally is a defrauder but her behaviour (excessive secrecy, refusal to provide estate accounts) is not what one would expect if she is innocent.
She could have done masses for OPS dad and now feels resentful at being interrogated and accused. Or she could be dead dodgy. We only have OPs side of the story and her view may be right, may be distorted by grief or she may be greedy.
Oblomov21 · 02/04/2021 16:20

Ancientgran:

"The people I knew who spent years arguing about a will felt it was all about the principle not the money. Years passed, everything overshadowed by the "fight" and when all the money was spent they admitted it was the worst decision of their lives to waste years and hundreds of thousands on it. Bear in mind both sides were getting legal advice that it was worth fighting."

Not everyone regrets fighting. I'm tenacious and like a pit bull who bites and never let's go, when I see injustice.

Loads of terrible things were written about me, lies, falsified documents. I enjoyed the fight very much. I took the school case to the governors, and then to the government minister. I took it as high as I could. I'm still pleased I did, all these years later.

Some people might regret their fight. Most don't!

hairymorag · 02/04/2021 18:05

I get the sense that Sally is upset at your attitude given your lack of input in your own parents care. You say you called daily but I would suggest that isnt true. I live away from my mum and i am too busy to call my mum everyday. Sally looked after your parents and even the amount she did your minimising. You refer to her as your dads half sister, even in that again trying to undermine there relationship. My eldest is half brother to his siblings, the young ones have grown up with him and they are his siblings. They would never refer to him as there half brother. I get your annoyed at the will . If you think she is a liar and has defrauded your parents (and her brother) then off you pop. Personally I had an uncle who was going to contest his fathers will as he had changed it and gave a chunk of money to his neighbour who provided day to day support for years, he hadnt bothered with his father. His sister told him to cut it out and he backed down. I think you need to be clear what your aim is....

NameChangeExtraordinaire · 02/04/2021 18:13

I fought, I'm glad I did. I'm much better off and it meant unscrupulous people didn't get away with exploiting my very vulnerable relative that I loved very much to the degree they thought they would.

earsup · 02/04/2021 18:16

I would see a specialist in this area....we used judith cuxson at veale waborough vizzards in london, excellent advice given to my late grandmother who was going to contest her sisters will...she had alzeimers and new will left everything to her brother etc....in the end an agreement was made out of court etc.

NameChangeExtraordinaire · 02/04/2021 18:20

@hairymorag

I get the sense that Sally is upset at your attitude given your lack of input in your own parents care. You say you called daily but I would suggest that isnt true. I live away from my mum and i am too busy to call my mum everyday. Sally looked after your parents and even the amount she did your minimising. You refer to her as your dads half sister, even in that again trying to undermine there relationship. My eldest is half brother to his siblings, the young ones have grown up with him and they are his siblings. They would never refer to him as there half brother. I get your annoyed at the will . If you think she is a liar and has defrauded your parents (and her brother) then off you pop. Personally I had an uncle who was going to contest his fathers will as he had changed it and gave a chunk of money to his neighbour who provided day to day support for years, he hadnt bothered with his father. His sister told him to cut it out and he backed down. I think you need to be clear what your aim is....
It's not up to Sally to police and judge the OP's relationship with her parents and decide that she is lacking so she doesn't deserve all of her father's money when he dies. I find it deeply unsavoury to think you should be gifted money for 'caring' for someone. I visit an elderly lady up the road from me and run errands for her, I don't even like her family much but that doesn't mean I would ever expect an inheritance in return. I do it because she is my friends and I like her.

Just because you don't call your mum daily doesn't mean the OP didn't call her father daily. Likewise, just because your children don't call their half-sibling a half-sibling doesn't meant that other people don't or that it is wrong. I have half-siblings that live thousands of miles away and that I never grew up with. I call them my half-siblings because it is factually true, doesn't mean I don't love them.

Overdueanamechange · 02/04/2021 18:32

I am sorry for your loss, but I also think you should let this go, despite the dementia.
I think that Sally stepped into the role of next of kin and probably organised lots of the day to day stuff - cleaner, carers, meals, bill etc. It was a nice gesture of him to leave her 1/3 of his estate. I know you phoned regularly, but a phone call will never replace human contact.
(The comment you made about her adult children, no grandchildren and jealously sounds judgy btw).
I just think its a same that the bitterness you have in wanting all of his estate has alienated you from your aunt. The ironic thing is that the solicitors are now eating into a good portion of his estate, which I am sure your father would not have wanted.

mybonnieliesovertheocean2 · 02/04/2021 18:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Enko · 02/04/2021 18:43

@hairymorag

Dh and I lived 25 mins from late MIL we called her daily as did my Sil

prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 19:07

She could have done masses for OPS dad and now feels resentful at being interrogated and accused

Possibly but she has consulted a solicitor. The solicitor will have told her that she is required, by law, to prepare estate accounts and provide a copy to the OP. She is still refusing to do so. Do you not find that suspicious?

Sixgeese · 02/04/2021 19:14

Until lockdown my 95 year old Grandma lived a 3 your drive from my parents. Mum phoned her twice a day everyday at the same times 8am and 6pm.

Phoning a much loved parent once a day is totally believeable.

Only times Mum missed is she was abroad we arranged for my sister or me to fill in. If Grandma didn't answer the phone a relative who lived nearby was called to check up on her.

Postdatedpandemic · 02/04/2021 19:31

Sally is a common, second rate lump of shit, who deserves nothing.

I have a friend who's will left most things to their children, The children contested the will, the codicil was that if contested the whole lump went to step mother..
If only they had ever spoken to their parent.

terraclutter · 02/04/2021 21:34

@Postdatedpandemic why did the children contest ?

pickledcrumpet · 03/04/2021 03:34

@hairymorag

I get the sense that Sally is upset at your attitude given your lack of input in your own parents care. You say you called daily but I would suggest that isnt true. I live away from my mum and i am too busy to call my mum everyday. Sally looked after your parents and even the amount she did your minimising. You refer to her as your dads half sister, even in that again trying to undermine there relationship. My eldest is half brother to his siblings, the young ones have grown up with him and they are his siblings. They would never refer to him as there half brother. I get your annoyed at the will . If you think she is a liar and has defrauded your parents (and her brother) then off you pop. Personally I had an uncle who was going to contest his fathers will as he had changed it and gave a chunk of money to his neighbour who provided day to day support for years, he hadnt bothered with his father. His sister told him to cut it out and he backed down. I think you need to be clear what your aim is....
Yes I called daily, visited when I could while working full time/travelling weekly for work and looking after a young family. I also flew him to stay with us for a couple of weeks at a time while he was still capable of traveling alone. Sally visited him once a week for an hour or two and managed his finances. She lived 30 mins drive away. I lived 1200km away and moved from the other side of the world to be closer. I moved to a large city to take a job and could not move to his more remote location.
OP posts:
countrygirl99 · 03/04/2021 06:09

@prh47bridge

She could have done masses for OPS dad and now feels resentful at being interrogated and accused

Possibly but she has consulted a solicitor. The solicitor will have told her that she is required, by law, to prepare estate accounts and provide a copy to the OP. She is still refusing to do so. Do you not find that suspicious?

If the OP is saying to many people what she has on here snd making my life difficult they might decide to leave it to the last possible moment on purpose. It might be a refusal to do it in a short timesvsle rather than at dll. As I said, we only have 1 side of the story and it's always best not to take everything someone had strong views about totally at face value. Maybe Sally is evil and manipulative, maybe OP is unreasonable. We will never know the truth unless it does go to court.
CrazyNeighbour · 03/04/2021 06:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dontdisturbmenow · 03/04/2021 09:14

What's the point of trying to debate whether Sally did a lot, deserved anything and OP did it didn't do enough.

It all comes down to what OP's father thought and whether he was mentally capable of baking rationale decision.

He might have felt that OP should have done more, maybe Sally did led him to believe this, but even so, that's not illegal if the person is deemed sound of mind.

It all comes down to either she wrote the thing herself and pressed on her brother's hand to.put his signature, and/or he wasn't mentally capable at the time to make any such decision.

Just one thing that I don't get. You mention a will and than a codicil. The codicil goes in her favour, so if she'd written it, coerced your dad to sign it, why didn't she mention it immediately with the will rather than produce it later?

countrygirl99 · 03/04/2021 09:18

@CrazyNeighbour

She could have done masses for OPS dad and now feels resentful at being interrogated and accused. Or she could be dead dodgy. We only have OPs side of the story and her view may be right, may be distorted by grief or she may be greedy.

Indeed, but even if she “grabby”, her parent was entitled to have his will executed properly and legally.

If Sally had had any sense she would have run away from being executor.

Maybe she is wishing she wasn't the executor now. D people who don't want to spend their money on solicitors can be pretty stubborn even with dementia (speaking from experience with.DPssnd Ils here). Like I said none of us know what the real story is. OP maybe completely correct or Sally may be kind but naive or anywhere in between. I've learned the hard way that people can be wrong in what they think/say either because they are nasty or because grief ir guilty feelings (& truly being unable to do stuff doesn't stop you feeling guilty that you can't) has warped how they see things.
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