Should I contest the Will?

[pickledcrumpet]

My late parent passed away just over two years ago. They lived on their own but had a lot of assistance from a specific relative as well as daily meal service deliveries and nurse visits. They were also diagnosed with Alzheimer's. I lived a two hour plane trip away most recently and prior to that the other side of the world so only visited a few times a year as I had a demanding job and young family but I telephoned them nearly daily. This other relative let's call them "Sally" assumed more and more responsibility over the years and took over all financial affairs as power of attorney by the time my parent died. Unfortunately I never discussed the Will with my late parent, I was embarrassed and taught it was vulgar to talk about family money. I was made aware by "Sally" they had encouraged my late parent to write a Will. After the death I was told by Sally she was the executor and she told me the entire estate was to go to myself and my children. Having not dealt with the situation I did not question. Months passed and I was asked about sale of house and what would like to do with the proceeds but I hadn't been given the Will or knew any details as to the value of the estate/bank accounts etc. finally I bit the bullet and asked to see the Will and was surprised to learn I would not be managing my own children's estate until they were adults, Sally would. I sort legal advice and was told this is unusual and I should request I manage this as well as a list of assets and expenses to date. Salt refused both. I then engaged a lawyer who noted the Will was downloaded from the internet, and of very poor quality/unlikely to have been shown to a lawyer. I also then discovered there was also a codicil, after my lawyer requested to see it, we lessened approximately 1/3 of the estate would go to Sally and her children and it was signed 3 months prior to my late father passing. My lawyer also questioned the validity of the Will and codicil as Alzheimer's was on the death certificate. We have finally reached a point where sally has agreed to let me manage my children's inheritance but she is refusing to budge on the codicil written only 3 months prior to death. I have asked to have access to my late parents medical records as I don't know the date he was formally diagnosed but I have reason to bet it was prior to the Will and sally has refused. My only choice now is to take Sally to court. I know my late parent was incapable of writing a Will and also trusted Sally. They would have signed and agreed to anything Sally put in front of them. Going to court will be expense and I risk losing. Any advice on whether to go to court or bow out? I strongly believe Sally wrote the Will, Sally took advantage of my late parent and felt they should be compensated so added the codicil just prior to my late parents death. The fact that Sally is not willing to let me see the medical records I believe is also very telling. Thoughts?

www.pat.nhs.uk/patients-and-visitors/how-to-access-patient-records.htm

This link explains the process for gaining access to a deceased patient’s medical records

Surely though you can have Alzheimer's but still have capacity for will signing.

You must know from your phone calls how 'with it' your DF was. Can you contact his GP as the N.o.K and ask about capacity?

I too am wondering whether it it worth the fight.
She was there on the ground when you couldn't be.

@pickledcrumpet

I'm waiting to get advice from solicitor. As she has refused me to access his medical records I'm not sure how I can prove the date for his Alzheimer's diagnosis. Looking back through my text correspondence with Sally I am fairly certain it was prior to the Will but she never shared any hospital letters with me.

If you take legal action, Sally will have to make a full disclosure. The court won't let her hide the medical records.

Any challenge to a Will needs to be made within 6 months of the Grant of Probate, so surely you're out of time?

Sally does not have power of consent over your relatives medical records.

While Sally has done a nice thing in providing care, she has basically spoiled it by her actions over the will and exploiting a person with dementia.

As long as you are not going to lose money, or relationships that you will miss, I would challenge it.

Why not ask the doctor about the medical records? If she has them it will only be copies

It's not just the money it's the principle isn't it ? And the dodgy nature of it all , power of attorney and executer and beneficiary and withholding information all put together .

You obviously feel it is all wrong so should pursue it.
However I would make it clear that whatever the outcome Sally will still get some financial benefit for looking after your DF.
This may help her take a compromise at some point too.

I think you need to let it go.

I assume your children’s money was left in trust with Sally as the trustee? That’s not unusual.

You say he had Alzheimer’s but not sure when the diagnosis was - you also say you took him out every day on the week he died. He can’t have been very ill with dementia from what you have said.

Sally looked after him for years: you sound as though you are minimising that but they were obviously fondness of each other (were they lovers?). If you want peace then you need to let it go imo.

Imagine there was no dodgy codicil.

Imagine that your DF before his death and incapacity had said to you “Sally has done a lot for me over the last couple of years. Do you think I should recognise her in my will? And if so how much?” What would you have replied? What’s the difference between the amount you would have suggested and the sum she’d receive from the codicil?

Bearing in mind that figure, and your court costs, make her an offer of somewhere between 5% and 33% otherwise you’ll take her to court (you don’t actually have to take her to court if she refuses, but it should focus her mind).

Over my life I have seen this many many times, these people who pop up and care for people and then get left everything or alot. The bottom line is care for your elders if you are interested in getting and inheritance. Family are happy to allow these opportunists to get a foot in the door as it relieves them from doing stuff, but then get surprised when this happens.

@Mackie2020

Any challenge to a Will needs to be made within 6 months of the Grant of Probate, so surely you're out of time?

This has been mentioned, my solicitor believes as she didn't she me the Will until 9 months and the codicil until this year there may be leeway.

@pickledcrumpet

I'm waiting to get advice from solicitor. As she has refused me to access his medical records I'm not sure how I can prove the date for his Alzheimer's diagnosis. Looking back through my text correspondence with Sally I am fairly certain it was prior to the Will but she never shared any hospital letters with me.

DF has a diagnosis of Alzheimer’s. He still has enough capacity to put POA in place and start sorting his affairs so that we don’t have to struggle with red tape when he does finally lose it completely. It is absolutely possible that the Will was signed when he knew what he was doing. I feel grief may be clouding things for you and I’m sorry for your loss but it could take ££££ to contest and then find that medical records show he had a diagnosis but was well enough when it was signed.

You can contest a will after 6 months from probate grant date. You need to apply to
A court and seek leave to expend the time limit. Within 6 months you can contest without first getting leave.

A few other thoughts. By starting to contest you will put in motion disclosure. You
May then decide to settle or even withdraw. So then costs raise their head. If you start proceedings because she has failed to disclose your argument would be that she should bear costs. Your solicitor can explain this. What will be important to avoid this will be ‘letter before action’ sol reiterating your request for disclosure and in effect saying if not proceedings will be issued with costs implications.

Overall you may well choose to leave it all as is. If you pursue you may not win and indeed she may have good arguments that she should have been left more (on need basis etc).
Definitely worth advice and then a clear calm head and an ability to walk away if that’s best.

@InkyOctopus

I think you need to let it go.

I assume your children’s money was left in trust with Sally as the trustee? That’s not unusual.

You say he had Alzheimer’s but not sure when the diagnosis was - you also say you took him out every day on the week he died. He can’t have been very ill with dementia from what you have said.

Sally looked after him for years: you sound as though you are minimising that but they were obviously fondness of each other (were they lovers?). If you want peace then you need to let it go imo.

Not lovers, they were related. He was not very mobile, had other health issues and could only walk very short distances towards the end, we took him to lunch, watch the children play while sitting on a bench, movies etc. We drove him door to door. He didn't have capacity to go out on his own. Several years earlier when he was still going out, I would get phone calls from people who had found his wallet, (had a list of phone numbers inside, he'd get lost. We did discuss care homes for him, he refused, would get very distressed and angry. They stopped booking him on hospital transport as he'd refuse to go when they came to pick him up. He refused to go to day respite care.

Have you read Bleak House?

You can make a Subject Access Request to see medical records, assuming you are nok. Sally does not have to agree.

@InkyOctopus

I think you need to let it go.

I assume your children’s money was left in trust with Sally as the trustee? That’s not unusual.

You say he had Alzheimer’s but not sure when the diagnosis was - you also say you took him out every day on the week he died. He can’t have been very ill with dementia from what you have said.

Sally looked after him for years: you sound as though you are minimising that but they were obviously fondness of each other (were they lovers?). If you want peace then you need to let it go imo.

I've been told by several lawyers this isn't typical. They couldn't understand and thought it irresponsible why he would appoint someone who themselves are elderly to execute his Will, but then I don't think he did choose her, she would have told him, she would organise it. My lawyer also noted that it's an online template (not even from the same jurisdiction) and some of the wording and clauses would not have ever been written by a lawyer.

If you have the means I would contest.

Get a Larke V Nugus request- this will give you all the info you need to know- your parents medical records, when the will was changed, who contacted the solicitor to change it, did they make checks in your parents mental health before changing, was anyone else present when changes made, any notes made during the meetings etc

if you ask these questions, they have to answer.

I have contested a will. I would definitely contest this one. But I feel I must warn you it can be a long, stressful and expensive business. There is no moral right and wrong in a probate dispute, only a legal right and wrong and the ability of one side to use money to browbeat the other side into submission, it becomes a war of attrition. How rich is Sally and how scared of the law is she? This is very important. I racked up £50,000 of fees as I had to use a barrister, get a professional medical report and use a solicitor - for four years - but I had the funds to do this. The will wasn't overturned as none of us was prepared to go to court as the case had a lot of grey areas but I did end up with a significantly better outcome. However, there were times I was terrified it would end up in court and I would lose my house! At no time did I ever let on this was how I felt though, I gave off the vibes I was implacable and it would end up in court, this scared the shit out of the other side.

Whether your father had mental capacity three months before he died if he had Alzheimer's will become the whole focus of the case but the good news is that if you put a caveat on the will you will get access to his medical records.

I believe everything you say about Sally, she sounds like an unscrupulous chancer who took advantage of you and your dad and I don't believe for one moment she was a sainted carer. When someone has Alzheimer's people crawl out of the woodwork to take advantage, it is horrific for families who are already dealing with the disappearance of the person they loved. Ignore those who try to imply you were failing in your duty and therefore Sally deserves your father's money, she does not. The fact the will was changed so late and looks very dubious means it probably was.

For what it's worth, the will I contested was done at a solicitors when my relative was in the early stages of Alzheimer's (but when their behaviour was unrecognisable from what went before), I still contested and it was worth it.

Who is dealing with the sale of your father's house - clearing the contents, preparing for sale, dealing with sale to completion. That is a huge amount of work in itself.

do you think Sally deserves anything? how much? would you have been surprised/angry if he had left her one third? i know it's not strictly the point because of the ambiguous dates and secrecy, moral dimension etc but if a third is in the right ballpark then I'd be inclined to save myself the hassle. its so negative to do this kind of thing I think .

I'm sore about a will but chose to suck it up in the end as it was what parent wanted.

@Gemma2019

Who is dealing with the sale of your father's house - clearing the contents, preparing for sale, dealing with sale to completion. That is a huge amount of work in itself.

Only the executor is allowed to sell the house. Everything transferred to her when he died. The house sat empty for 18 months, then she sold it to a private buyer, possibly a neighbour (the day after he passed they gave us a sympathy card with a note inside asking to buy the house!). Travel is very difficult due to Covid now. I'm not in the UK.

@HeronLanyon and @overtherainbow88 and other pps sound like they know their onions though!

I don't see the issue with asking someone elderly to be the executor, it seemed likely she would survive longer and an executor nearby is a much more sensible decision than one two hours in a plane away.
I think you are looking at all her actions through the lens of believing her to be "on the take" and are suspicious of things that aren't that unusual. Whether there were immoral actions going on over the codicil itself I don't know. But I agree with pp questioning whether a diagnosis means instantly lacking capacity to make a will. Would depend how early it came really. A lot of people will think seriously about wills when they approach the end of course.