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Legal matters

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Should I contest the Will?

162 replies

pickledcrumpet · 01/04/2021 09:22

My late parent passed away just over two years ago. They lived on their own but had a lot of assistance from a specific relative as well as daily meal service deliveries and nurse visits. They were also diagnosed with Alzheimer's. I lived a two hour plane trip away most recently and prior to that the other side of the world so only visited a few times a year as I had a demanding job and young family but I telephoned them nearly daily. This other relative let's call them "Sally" assumed more and more responsibility over the years and took over all financial affairs as power of attorney by the time my parent died. Unfortunately I never discussed the Will with my late parent, I was embarrassed and taught it was vulgar to talk about family money. I was made aware by "Sally" they had encouraged my late parent to write a Will. After the death I was told by Sally she was the executor and she told me the entire estate was to go to myself and my children. Having not dealt with the situation I did not question. Months passed and I was asked about sale of house and what would like to do with the proceeds but I hadn't been given the Will or knew any details as to the value of the estate/bank accounts etc. finally I bit the bullet and asked to see the Will and was surprised to learn I would not be managing my own children's estate until they were adults, Sally would. I sort legal advice and was told this is unusual and I should request I manage this as well as a list of assets and expenses to date. Salt refused both. I then engaged a lawyer who noted the Will was downloaded from the internet, and of very poor quality/unlikely to have been shown to a lawyer. I also then discovered there was also a codicil, after my lawyer requested to see it, we lessened approximately 1/3 of the estate would go to Sally and her children and it was signed 3 months prior to my late father passing. My lawyer also questioned the validity of the Will and codicil as Alzheimer's was on the death certificate. We have finally reached a point where sally has agreed to let me manage my children's inheritance but she is refusing to budge on the codicil written only 3 months prior to death. I have asked to have access to my late parents medical records as I don't know the date he was formally diagnosed but I have reason to bet it was prior to the Will and sally has refused. My only choice now is to take Sally to court. I know my late parent was incapable of writing a Will and also trusted Sally. They would have signed and agreed to anything Sally put in front of them. Going to court will be expense and I risk losing. Any advice on whether to go to court or bow out? I strongly believe Sally wrote the Will, Sally took advantage of my late parent and felt they should be compensated so added the codicil just prior to my late parents death. The fact that Sally is not willing to let me see the medical records I believe is also very telling. Thoughts?

OP posts:
DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 02/04/2021 00:53

I know a lot of people are advising you to let it go, but I think you have too many unanswered questions to do that yet. For example her refusing you access to your father's medical records.
I think for peace of mind you should continue to ask the questions you want answers too, it might set your mind at rest. its hard not knowing or not trusting what happened.
Chances are once you have the information, you may conclude that she wasn't exactly a straight dealer but she did help your dad in some ways and then you may decide not to proceed, but if you don't look into it, you could be always wondering about it.
Its likely that finding out more will involve an exchange of solicitor's letters for a while but it shouldnt cost a huge amount. If your solicitor is a good one, it shouldn't come to court and once information is exchanged you will be in a better position to decide what to do next,

TreaterAnita · 02/04/2021 00:58

@Seafog

Is there specific reason to believe your father would not have wanted to compensate Sally for her years of care?
The Court isn’t interested in what people might have wanted to do, or what’s morally sound, it’s concerned with whether someone made a decision to dispose of their estate when they had capacity to do so. The OP’s dad could have given everything to the cats’ home and if he had capacity that would be fine, but the facts of this case seem to be that he left a third of his estate to his executor and caregiver (which she then lied about) 3 months before he died of Alzheimer’s.
LadyLolaRuben · 02/04/2021 01:02

You can access your parent's medical records now they have deceased. Apply to your father's GP under Subject Access request laws.

CruellaDaVille · 02/04/2021 01:06

Your father was diagnosed with Alzheimers so he would have been seen by a specialist team and had diagnostics.

Some of these tests would have possibly been like the ACE-R - he would have had to write or draw on (standard in the UK not sure about abroad) this should be recorded his medical records.

Diagnostics would indicate what his executive functioning, writing and language/fluency was. If you are financially able to, definitely get access to his medical records - it will give you some indication whether he was cognitively able to understand the Will amendments 3 months before his demise.

RhubarbCustardy · 02/04/2021 01:06

It's late and I'm off to bed so haven't read all of your thread OP but just to ask why has Sally got the medical records? Surely they're not her legal property? Also wouldn't the GP have these details for proof of diagnosis date?

VanGoghsDog · 02/04/2021 01:11

@LIZS

You can make a Subject Access Request to see medical records, assuming you are nok. Sally does not have to agree.
No you can't.

The data protection act only applies to living people.
However, Sally has no say in the medical records. She may have had medical power of attorney but that ends with the death.

I'd ask the police to investigate. If the parent was not capable of making a will or codicil, then what Sally has done is criminal, not for you to sue her, for the Crown to prosecute her!

CakesOfVersailles · 02/04/2021 01:40

I am amazed that anyone would think helping a person with Alzheimer's to write a will (and codicil) without the involvement of a solicitor is appropriate.

Then to lie to the daughter (even by omission) about the father's will?

Very dodgy. Especially given the changes financially benefitted Sally and her children.

The care given or not given by 'Sally' is irrelevant really.

Oblomov21 · 02/04/2021 05:26

Surely you can do a lot of the donkey work yourself? Instead of using a costly solicitor. Write an email and ping it off to various places. Eg GP, the practice manager, saying you have concerns (about father coerced into changing will) and like to see copy of all medical records because sally refused.

This is free. Won't cost you £1000's in solicitors fees.

Surely there's good support websites uk, for people who have done similar, with step-by-step instructions, legal advice etc?

Oblomov21 · 02/04/2021 05:33

"My only choice now is to take Sally to court. "

Is it? Surely there is more that can be done first?

At no cost. Just your time. You've had good advice here.

Have you even written her a threatening letter yet? I'm not saying you should yet. But, at some point, I'd be not paying a solicitor, but doing it myself, with good advice. And a threatening letter is just one of those steps. Before you get to the court stage. Which is costly.

Oblomov21 · 02/04/2021 05:34

Are there any timeframes? It's nearly 3 years since your father passed. Are you running out of time?

Billandben444 · 02/04/2021 07:00

You've had lots of advice on here and a lot of it is contradictory which proves that only professional legal advice is worth having. Personally I'd want to have some answers more than anything else so start by finding out whether the will and codicil are actually legal, get hold of medical records and then decide if you've got a legal leg to stand on. I wouldn't be offering her a reduced amount as she has no reason to accept it, does she? Work through the process (with a UK based solicitor if necessary) and then the situation should look a bit clearer. Is what Sally has done legal or not? Whether she 'earnt' the money is neither here nor there tbh but there are a lot of pointers to skulduggery. Good luck.

SakuraEdenSwan1 · 02/04/2021 07:20

@FluffyHippo

Greedy much?
Have not RRTT but up to this point I agree
JSL52 · 02/04/2021 09:21

@pickledcrumpet I don't know what 'notes' Sally has, but she won't have his medical notes. They will be with GP and hospital.

Darkbrownistheriver · 02/04/2021 09:39

What was Sally’s relationship to your father/yourself? A relative could be anyone from his daughter/your sister to a third cousin twice removed? Sorry if this has already been answered.

prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 09:55

@Mackie2020

Any challenge to a Will needs to be made within 6 months of the Grant of Probate, so surely you're out of time?
That is the time limit for making a claim under the Inheritance Act. The OP will be claiming that the will is invalid as her parent lacked testamentary capacity. There is no time limit for that claim. So no, the OP is not out of time.
ancientgran · 02/04/2021 10:01

@gonewiththegin

Sally took advantage of someone who wasn’t in their right mind! I would without a doubt be contesting this OP. It’s not even about the money it’s the principle.
How can you possibly know that? It is quite possible that the man felt he wanted her to have something as he felt close to her as the person he relied on.

Why would we assume that the OP has some sort of right to everything he had?

The people I knew who spent years arguing about a will felt it was all about the principle not the money. Years passed, everything overshadowed by the "fight" and when all the money was spent they admitted it was the worst decision of their lives to waste years and hundreds of thousands on it. Bear in mind both sides were getting legal advice that it was worth fighting.

OP I had LPA for a relative with dementia, it was horrific, I'd never do it again. I had phone calls at all hours of the day and night from the relative, from neighbours she was annoying, from the social worker, the local police force asking me, well telling me, to stop her calling them, from the GP and one memorable call from the Consultants junior doctor to tell me off for letting her travel to the hospital by herself for an appointment. Her dementia was advanced and he was a specialist Psychiatrist dealing with dementia and he believed her when she said she got there using two buses. I suggested he speak to the hospital transport team who had arranged transport for her.

I ended up on the local cardiac unit when it got so bad I had to be rushed into hospital.

Honestly be grateful someone was there for him when you couldn't be.

prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 10:04

@LadyLolaRuben

You can access your parent's medical records now they have deceased. Apply to your father's GP under Subject Access request laws.
No, the OP cannot access her parent's medical records - at least, not in full, and not via a Subject Access Request. Access to her parent's health records is controlled by the Access to Health Records Act 1990. This limits access to the deceased's personal representative (Sally in this case). However, as it seems the OP has a claim, she is entitled to information directly relevant to her claim. For this she needs to contact the records manager for her parent's area. Her parent's GP will be able to tell her who to contact.
prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 10:30

my understanding is all the legal fees come out of the estate. I haven't had a clear answer if this includes Sally's portion however

Yes, the estate will defend the will, not Sally personally, so legal fees in defending any claim come out of the estate. If the codicil gives Sally a specific sum of money, legal fees will not come out of her portion. However, if it gives her a specific proportion of the estate (e.g. one third of the estate), any legal fees are deducted from the estate before she gets her portion so, in effect, one third of the legal fees would come from her portion of the estate. Of course, if you win, the codicil giving her a proportion of the estate would be invalid so there would be no "her portion of the estate" to contribute towards the legal costs.

Having said that, if she has attempted to defraud your parent's estate, the estate may be able to recover its legal costs from her.

By the way, I wouldn't take any notice of posters describing you as greedy. Trying to make sure your parent's estate is distributed in accordance with their wishes is not greedy. To me, Sally's excessive secrecy is highly suspicious.

Newnamefor2021 · 02/04/2021 10:51

@prh47bridge can the OPs solicitor state that Sally's legal fees are her own? Can they claim she is being bias? (Just as I'm involved in similar dispute and the executor was told by the other solicitor he was responsible for the costs because they say there is bias as he stands to benefit).

prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 10:55

The OP's solicitor can't force Sally to pay costs. Only the courts can do that. However, Sally's solicitor may advise her that she will be liable for any costs.

Newnamefor2021 · 02/04/2021 10:58

@prh47bridge

The OP's solicitor can't force Sally to pay costs. Only the courts can do that. However, Sally's solicitor may advise her that she will be liable for any costs.
Ok thanks, that's helpful.

These sorts of things are so messy and horrible. It's like everything can be legal, mortal and right but the wrong word here or there and you lose everything.

travailtotravel · 02/04/2021 11:05

I'm sorry for your loss. I think, and there are more educated views on here, that what you really want is some clarity. You haven't seen medical records and documents and evidence you have asked for hasn't been provided. I think to get to what you want to know, you will have to contest. If when you see that evidence you change your mind, fair enough. You've already lost a relationship with Sally. I would ensure she had so something though as she did do some of the care.

ceilingsand · 02/04/2021 11:27

I'm shocked actually at how many people are defending a defrauder.

pickledcrumpet · 02/04/2021 12:22

@Oblomov21

"My only choice now is to take Sally to court. "

Is it? Surely there is more that can be done first?

At no cost. Just your time. You've had good advice here.

Have you even written her a threatening letter yet? I'm not saying you should yet. But, at some point, I'd be not paying a solicitor, but doing it myself, with good advice. And a threatening letter is just one of those steps. Before you get to the court stage. Which is costly.

I started writing to her, and she declined my requests and was told to write to her lawyer. I then met with a lawyer for advice and wrote a letter based on the advice and she declined to my requests (list of assets, expenses and to manage my children's inheritance) and she declined all three. After some time I then engaged my own lawyer as I wasn't getting anywhere. At this point I didn't even know about the codicil. It was only when my lawyer started writing strongly worded letters did the information come out. His first advice to me was to contest the Will as my father had Alzheimer's as the kids % share was greater than mine. But I have never disputed this aspect, my goal was purely to oversee my own children's investment. I didn't want to be beholden to Sally. I knew she was on a power trip. It was only when more information came out and that she lied to me about my dads finances and that a particular account was to go to her and her children as per this codicil did I start to question her motives. As much as she's always been a bit of a busy body, overly involved in our lives I did use to trust her intentions. However that trust went out the window when I found out she lied to me. I also felt she was being vindictive keeping control of my children's inheritance and possibly the % split as I have always thought she masterminded the entire Will. Sorry I've had a couple of glasses of wine this evening.
OP posts:
pickledcrumpet · 02/04/2021 12:25

@Darkbrownistheriver

What was Sally’s relationship to your father/yourself? A relative could be anyone from his daughter/your sister to a third cousin twice removed? Sorry if this has already been answered.
His half sister, my aunt
OP posts:
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