Upcoming trial for s 172/speeding advice needed

[Idiotdriver123]

Hi all. I posted here a few months ago. Basically, I failed to update the DVLA of my change of address when I moved house. After this, I was caught twice doing 35 in a 30 really close to my home where I drive every day. I only found out about it when I was contacted by bailiffs and I had been convicted of two counts of failing to give driver information under s 172 of the Road Traffic Act. I was also given 12 points and have received notification of an intention to ban me under the totting up rules.

After I got over my shock, I filed a statutory declaration with the court, which has reopened the prosecution. I have been told that I have a trial later this month. I have also been sent the single justice procedure notice where it lists that I have been charged with 2 offences: failing to provide driver info AND speeding.

It has asked me to enter a plea for each charge. Ultimately, I intend to plead guilty to speeding because I was driving the car. BUT I want them to drop the s172 charges in return (technically of course I am guilty but it's because I was stupid, not deliberately evasive and I had no idea about the charges). I have looked at online forums and it has advised to plead not guilty to both offences and then ask the court for the more serious charge to be dropped. According to PePiPoo forums, this is commonplace and they usually do drop the s172.

I just wanted to check if anyone else has experience of this- of pleading not guilty to both and then offering a deal. I am a bit nervous about it and I don't want to turn up at court and be accused of wasting everyone's time by pleading NG. At the same time, I can see that if I enter a guilty plea for speeding now, I could turn up to court and ALSO get convicted of s 172 and would end up with three times the points that I'd get for 2 charges of speeding. So it makes sense from a bargaining perspective.

Would be interested to hear any experiences. Btw, I feel like shit about it already in case anyone wonders. I should have updated it but it slipped my mind totally because I'd updated my licence and stupidly thought this was enough. Speeding is really bad and can cost lives but in some defence, this is a large road and I was going at the lowest speed they prosecute at (10% over limit plus 2 mph). I have driven for 20 years without a point on my licence. I haven't used my car since I found out about this in November.

Even if things go badly for me and I keep 12 points and a ban, I know it's not the end of the world. I live in an area with good public transport and am not a carer. I have checked insurance quotes and my car insurance would still be under £50 a month with two s 172s and a ban. I can afford a larger fine, although it will be annoying. I intend to drive like a pensioner from now on!

@Idiotdriver123

On the day of the hearing find the Court Usher dealing with motoring offences and offer to plead guilty to speeding if they will drop the S172, it's a very common deal.

Oh, and post over on Pepipoo where you'll find motoring lawyers, magistrates and people well versed in motoring matters.

The matter is complicated by the fact that I moved house and didn’t receive my post. That meant that rather than the offer of a speed awareness course and no points or a £100 fine and three points, I ended up charged with a much more serious offence of failing to furnish driver information. This carries 6 points and an £800 fine. Quite a difference.

It's complicated by the fact that you didn't tell them you had moved and didn't have your post redirected. You caused this problem so you need to deal with it. The court shouldn't bargain with you, you'll be told what the outcome is and that's that.

MrsZlatan thanks for sharing your experience. That makes me feel hopeful that my situation will also be sorted out. I agree that the stress of a court date is horrible. I will feel much lighter when it’s no longer hanging over me. I guess I am lucky in that I don’t need to drive for my job so that must have been extra stressful for you, knowing that you needed a car.

It seems to be such a common scenario that I’m surprised the DVLA hasn’t imposed a requirement for electronic notification of driving offences as well as by post. It must cost loads to first prosecute someone, instruct bailiffs to find them when they don’t pay, re-open the case and then devote court time to it. I have probably moved house 12 times since 2004 but my mobile number has been the same the whole way through.

For update, my hearing is supposed to be this week. After considering things, I have pleaded guilty on the SJP notice to speeding and not guilty to failing to give driver information. I have also sent an email to the prosecution asking if they would consider dropping the failure to give information charges in return for my guilty plea but there has been no response from them. Finally, I have sent a covering letter to the court when returning my SJP notice saying that I am happy to be sentenced for speeding in my absence and avoid the need for a court hearing. Again, no response, so I am presuming that the hearing is still on. As it is online, there will be no possibility of finding a prosecutor at court prior to the hearing, which is why I had hoped that the email would work but hopefully they will be okay about it.

Will update once I have had the hearing.

As promised, an update on how it went which will hopefully help anyone else in the same situation.

I attended via video link. I filled in the SJP notice saying I wanted to plead guilty to speeding but not guilty to failure to give driver information. I had also emailed the prosecutor but got no response. Via video there is no chance of finding the prosecutor and doing a deal beforehand as there would be during normal times.

I had to wait and hear other cases being dealt with before mine was called on. I was asked if I had anything to say and I just explained the stuff with the log book and explained how sorry I was. The magistrates went out to deliberate and came back 5 mins later and gave me 3 points for each speeding offence and a fine that’s quite a bit lower than I expected plus a small amount for costs and victim surcharge. They told me to make sure my logbook was updated in the future! Generally they were very nice to me and sympathetic.

I hope this helps other people. For those of you on this thread making dumb and snarky comments, it also shows how wrong you were, especially those who claimed to have legal experience. You caused a lot of unnecessary stress. I will be driving carefully from now on and I am pleased this is all over.

That's good @Idiotdriver123, it really is quite straightforward. I assume the s172 fail to provide info charges were formally withdrawn?

Out of interest how did the videolink go? Where did you do it from? Having defendants appear via videolink except from prison is a very new thing.

Thanks JustanotherJP! And your advice on this thread was so brilliant so thank you. Yes, s172 formally withdrawn.

Video link was fine. I did it from my spare room. Logged in ages in advance of the hearing because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t late and in real life they normally tell you to come to court well in advance. The legal advisor and various other defendants logged in about 5 mins before the start. There were also defendants there in person so I had to wait until their matters were dealt with, as well as a couple more on the video link. The legal advisor and the magistrates were all very courteous and not excessively formal. I did nearly cry when explaining everything but I needn’t have worried so much because it worked out okay in the end.

Glad it went to plan. There is almost always a lot of waiting around in courts unfortunately, but at least you didn't have to be waiting in the court house for hours.

If times had been normal & you had gone to appear in person these type of offences & things like drink driving are held in what regulars call the "Monkey Court" It is like a conveyor belt, everyone turns up for start of play at 10.00 & cases are wheeled in one after another, most lasting less than 15 minutes, in, how do you plead? Have you anything to say? Sentence & done.

Thank you IdiotDriver for letting us all know how it went, despite some negative feedback. I, for one, am very grateful, and also pleased for you that the stress is over.

Good result and a massive relief for you, thanks for updating us.