Separation and changing school half way through year 4

[Darkfyre]

Hi all,

Need some advice.
Background:
I am separating from my partner at the moment.
We are not married and have an 8 year old son.
House is currently sold, but we haven't moved.
I plan to move to my parents and my partner is moving to hers.
My parents have two spare rooms which I am converting into bedrooms. They live in the same town approx 20-40 mins away depending on traffic.
My partners parents have no spare rooms. They live 1hour 40 mins away.

Situation: We have been to 2 mediation sessions and cannot agree on who should have our Son weekdays.
My point: Move and separation is stressful enough. Let our Son stay at current school and I will commute him. Less disruption, keeps his friends and education not disrupted. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the school, he is happy there.

Her point: If he moves down where she is, schools will be 8 minutes walk away. Can gain independence in walking to school himself in year 5&6. She also says that because she has been doing all the little things (like remembering Odd-sock day, world book day etc.) she is better suited for weekday parenting.

Conclusion, I don't want him moving school for the sake of it. She doesn't like the idea of a 20-40 min driven commute each way and would rather him be local enough to walk. Note: There is issue over secondary school, but we are more aligned here so I won't go into detail on that.

Legal:
As I understand it, schools require both parents consent to move a child out of a school to another (yes I have PR). If I don't give consent, she cannot move him out of his school.

Problem:
As we have not come to an agreement or compromise, the likely immediate outcome is that our Son will come with me to continue his current school and I will commute him in.

As such, she is now in contact with a Solicitor who has sent me a letter asking why I have cancelled the next mediation appointment (which was not cancelled, as we had "pencilled" it in and I'm not up for it as it is getting us no-where). It goes on to say that they have been instructed to make an application for a specific issue order and a child arrangement order to settle the arrangements for our son.

When I asked her about this, she denies that she has instructed her solicitor to do so.

I have been asked to get in touch within 14 days.

I am rather concerned, but should this go to court, I expect that I will be the resident parent doing the school commute. Does this help me?

I am seeking legal advice, and have put feelers out for family solicitors with free introduction consultations.

Any advice would be greatly welcomed, and if I can clarify anything, please let me know.

P.S. She has just started a new job and therefore can't get a mortgage for at least 3-6 months. Therefore our Son will be sleeping on a mattress in his grandmothers room, while she will be sleeping on a sofabed. We have agreed that whoever has residency (Mon-Fri) the other will see him 3 weekends out of 4 on average and we will share school holidays equally.
In contrast, with me, he will immediately have his own space and bedroom.

I don't see how it can work. You want to travel what could be up to 1 1/2 hours twice a day of you are working from home/your office is in the town you'll be moving to.

You are talking of breakfast club, so possibly having to leave home at 7am-ish. That very early. Then at least once a week, you want your son to stay in school until almost 7pm, go to a club until what 8 pm not get back home until 8:30ish and have dinner, do homework, shower before going to bed?

All this is too much for a kid that age.

She is very quick to anger when it comes to anything I do. She is very controlling in that everything has to be her way. For example, she tells me in one breath that now we are separating people are wondering why she does my washing; even though I do hers... and yet, when I do do the washing, she finds something to complain about, and when I don't do it, she complains that I'm not pulling my weight.

Little things too, like if I don't put a mug away and leave it on the side overnight, or leave dishes in the sink and don't wash up within an hour of dinner; she will start getting upset and I have to stop whatever I'm doing and attend to the situation. On the flipside, if she does any of the above its fine.

In relation to our son, she nags him a lot, often giving him 2 or three things to do at the same time and complain that he is not doing one of them cos he is doing one of the other tasks.

Mornings are often a typical case of this when getting ready for school. Sure he can be slow at times, he's only 8 and its not exactly atypical. When I get ready with him, I will be like "hey, I've got my clothes on, why do you only have one sock on! :)". She will nag and moan "Come on, hurry up" etc.

Guess that comes down to parenting style in a way, but I don't think it's too far from the way she treats me (its more pronounced the more stressed she is with work and has not been helped by being unemployed for 11 months where she "feels useless").... so yes it is a concern and one of the underlying reasons in the back of my head why I would rather be the resident parent (even though I really have tried to push for the 50/50 split but to no avail).

I have visited the Family Justice Centre to talk about all the above, and in particular my concerns that I am a victim of domestic abuse (verbal). I feel I was honest in what I told them in so much as I mentioned that at times, she had wound me up so much that it had lost my temper and shoved her (its never been anything more than that).

Unfortunately for me, they then went and contacted her out of the blue to ask "if she was safe" after which, she completely blew up at me for getting social services involved and I had to then explain absolutely everything I had told the FJC. To this day she uses this against me, even though we got a letter from social services to say no further action would be taken. I thought that this was a breach of confidence but understand that there is a bias in relation to domestic abuse where men are reportedly 95%+ the abuser, and perhaps they were just doing their due diligence. But they could have handled it better.

Problem is the verbal abuse between us does go both ways. If she is shouting about something and I disagree, in the past I feel that the only way she will hear me back is to speak (often shout) louder than her and it escalates. I'm better now that I was thanks to the CBT, but it is still an issue which is why we must separate; especially when it is in earshot of our Son (who says he "is used to it" which is horrifying to me).

She has punched me in the past (in front of our Son), but I have warned her that I have noted it and if she does it again, I will not hesitate to bring it up if I need to with authorities.

Its nice to actually hear a mans thought process. Sometimes they are villainised unfairly.

Its very good that you are separating. Its a really difficult situation. It may be best for a judge to decide as i can see both sides.

You’re as bad as each other.

Why haven't you given your ex enough of a settlement to stay in the same area?
Why are you trying to take your son away from the main parent?
And then finally why the 3 weekends a month? That doesn't give your son much quality time with the main parent or for friends

Oh dear. So you’re in an extremely unhealthy dynamic where you’re both abusive to each other verbally and physically.

If you can’t agree at mediation - and I would not have cancelled it if I were you - then you will end up in court and I’m not sure either of you will be sure of getting the outcome you want.

You’d be in a stronger position wrt weekday custody if you rented in the area you are currently living in near his primary school and didn’t move out yet to your parents.

Basically it hinges on secondary school admissions, I would say. If your son will go to secondary school by your ex’s family, he needs to be resident there. If he will go to secondary school near you, he needs to be resident near you. I don’t think you’re in agreement at all on secondary (and therefore the primary residence of your son).

I would on the surface of it tend to agree that moving him now so far away in the midst of a divorce is not great for him so living with you is better, and your ex shouldn’t have made such a unilateral decision on moving so far away without this being sorted first.

But if you are ultimately happy for your DS to go to secondary near your wife’s residence, then bite the bullet now and you move somewhere closer to her instead. Otherwise you’re just kicking the can down the road for no reason.

To be honest with all that background I would go to court to settle it, then they can get independent parties to talk to your son and figure out what is best for him and what he really wants. You could have applied for a prohibitive steps order so he can't move, but it depends if that is in his best interests. You probably won't be able to hedge your bets in that way for secondary so it is worth really considering firstly his realistic prospects of getting a grammar place, even for very able children they are not guaranteed and the pass mark can vary depending on where he is living in relation to the school. Will he thrive in a highly selective environment?

@missbipolar

Why haven't you given your ex enough of a settlement to stay in the same area? Why are you trying to take your son away from the main parent? And then finally why the 3 weekends a month? That doesn't give your son much quality time with the main parent or for friends

With her job and the "settlement" as you say, she could buy a 2 bedroom house in the same area. But she doesnt want to. She wants to move to her parents where she can get a bigger 3 bedroom house for the same money.

I maybe reading this wrong, but it sounds like you are saying that she is already the main parent. This is not the case. We do things equally at the moment - I have been working from home since covid while she has been unemployed. While working from home I have been taking him to school and picking him up as well.

Surely less than 3 weekends a month doesn't give our son much time with the other parent? In this regard we are trying to be fair (and it's her idea).

@NoSquirrels

Basically it hinges on secondary school admissions, I would say. If your son will go to secondary school by your ex’s family, he needs to be resident there. If he will go to secondary school near you, he needs to be resident near you. I don’t think you’re in agreement at all on secondary (and therefore the primary residence of your son).

I would on the surface of it tend to agree that moving him now so far away in the midst of a divorce is not great for him so living with you is better, and your ex shouldn’t have made such a unilateral decision on moving so far away without this being sorted first.

But if you are ultimately happy for your DS to go to secondary near your wife’s residence, then bite the bullet now and you move somewhere closer to her instead. Otherwise you’re just kicking the can down the road for no reason.

That's the thing, I am not ultimately happy for my son to go to a secondary near my ex's (we are not married). I would rather him stay at his current school and go to secondary near me. The whole possibility of him going to the secondary near her was my attempt at showing compromise, but the more I think about it, the more it puts me off... especially with the need to be resident a year in advance meaning he wont finish at his primary... and then he won't even be able to apply for the grammar schools I was hoping for because they ask to be within an hours travel (and he will be further than that, esp at rush hour from hers).

I think you have hit the nail on the head with her making a unilateral decision without it being sorted first.

@TW2013

To be honest with all that background I would go to court to settle it, then they can get independent parties to talk to your son and figure out what is best for him and what he really wants. You could have applied for a prohibitive steps order so he can't move, but it depends if that is in his best interests. You probably won't be able to hedge your bets in that way for secondary so it is worth really considering firstly his realistic prospects of getting a grammar place, even for very able children they are not guaranteed and the pass mark can vary depending on where he is living in relation to the school. Will he thrive in a highly selective environment?

I am now leaning towards at least one more mediation session to see how it goes. Why do I need a prohibitive steps order so he can't move? The school cannot allow him to move without consent of both parents?

Who knows on whether he will thrive in a highly selective environment, how can you judge that?

The whole possibility of him going to the secondary near her was my attempt at showing compromise

You need to think long-term, and what is in your DC’s best interest. Currently (to be a bit blunt) both you and your ex seem focused on property plans over and above your son’s future. Don’t try to agree a short-term plan - this separation is forever and one parent has moved over 1.5 hours away. If 50-50 contact/residence is at all important to you as a parent you need to decide if you’ll follow her as she’s adamant she’s not moving to stay near you. Or if you’ll go all-in on primary residence and your son just seeing his mother very part-time (plus a court fight).

In an ideal world your ex would not have made this decision which seems bonkers to me. But she must feel she will win if it’s pushed to court - which it sounds like.

Who is most reasonable or can convince the courts of that? If you claim abuse, what’s to stop her counter-claiming the same? Neither of you are covered in glory but you’ve admitted being physically abusive in anger...

@NoSquirrels

The whole possibility of him going to the secondary near her was my attempt at showing compromise

You need to think long-term, and what is in your DC’s best interest. Currently (to be a bit blunt) both you and your ex seem focused on property plans over and above your son’s future. Don’t try to agree a short-term plan - this separation is forever and one parent has moved over 1.5 hours away. If 50-50 contact/residence is at all important to you as a parent you need to decide if you’ll follow her as she’s adamant she’s not moving to stay near you. Or if you’ll go all-in on primary residence and your son just seeing his mother very part-time (plus a court fight).

In an ideal world your ex would not have made this decision which seems bonkers to me. But she must feel she will win if it’s pushed to court - which it sounds like.

Who is most reasonable or can convince the courts of that? If you claim abuse, what’s to stop her counter-claiming the same? Neither of you are covered in glory but you’ve admitted being physically abusive in anger...

Yeah I have no intention of claiming abuse. It just makes it more messy and will come down to who can prove what and it will end up with my word against hers and she will win cos I'm a man and men are typically the abusive one. Its pointless and I don't think I'm being cynical here.

She says she doesn't want to go to court, but is taking actions otherwise. I'm not sure if she is just using it as a threat to force me to change my mind and go with what she wants as per usual.

Fact of the matter as far as I can see it, is should it go to court, she will get what she wants because she is the mother. Do I really even stand a chance. Is it really the case these days that Dad's just have to go with whatever Mum's decide cos there isn't any option?

Would the courts even care whether she made these decisions before mediation?

If I have residency by the time it gets to court, chances are probably slim to none I'd win anyway, or am I just being pessimistic based on the stereotypical outcome of these sorts of matters?

50/50 does matter to me as a parent which is why I suggested it in the first place, and by email with lots of research into house prices, travel times and so on. But she MUST move to her parents town and that is the end of it and therefore I must follow? How is that reasonable?

Going to court seems like the worst idea, is going to cost us both a fortune and I'll likely lose cos of above I guess.

All I can really try to do I think is arrange mediation, delay the inevitable and allow our son to finish this year of school while commuting him and then I guess I'll have to just give it up and let her have what she wants, regardless of whether its ideal or not.

I'd like to sit down with our son and talk about it. I'm 90% sure he'd chose to stay at his school and move with me, but I'm also 100% sure that she would blow his opinion off as "he is too young to understand the consequences".

Proper depressing.

You are correct that she needs a specific issue order if she wants to move your son to a different school. It will be up to her to prove that the move is in his best interests. Her desire to have him attend a school near her won't be enough to justify the disruption of a change of school.

Fact of the matter as far as I can see it, is should it go to court, she will get what she wants because she is the mother. Do I really even stand a chance. Is it really the case these days that Dad's just have to go with whatever Mum's decide cos there isn't any option?

No, she won't win just because she is the mother. You do stand a chance. The courts will want whatever is in your son's best interests. As per my last post, they won't be keen on ordering a change of school unless your ex has stronger arguments than you've described so far. Similarly, if you are staying in the area and she is moving away there is a decent chance that the courts will decide that your son should live with you. It isn't guaranteed by any means but don't assume the courts will automatically side with her.

I think that the issue with three weekends is it means that one person is doing all the grunt work of parenting while the other has the fun stuff. It also makes it tricky when they are older to hang out with their mates if their mates all live an hour and a half away.

I think that you might need to seek professional advice and act quickly while he is still living with you. It is not about who gets your son more but about an independent person helping him decide what he wants. It is also worth looking at how over subscribed the comprehensive school is, it might be possible for him to move quickly to her if he doesn't pass the 11 plus. Maybe talk to his teachers too about whether they think he would suit a grammar school.

I think the prohibited steps order means he's not allowed to move away from. His current area, and he would have to be returned if he left. I would do this if I were you.

You've both behaved wrongly being physical with each other.

Sounds like you should both stay on the same area you are now for continuity ...

I don't know the law at all, but as a lay person, I think you should rent close to the school and forget any immediate plans to buy near your parents. That's the way to stand a chance, I think. And go to the meditation.

963 My thoughts exactly.

@FortunesFave I was referring to the son

I bet your ex side of the story would make interesting reading. You have played the system to gain the upper hand, you physically assaulted her yet your trying to play the victim!

Could the reason for her move to her parents be because she has no support network and knows she cannot rely on you if, for example, her car breaks down and she can’t make it to school in time? My lovely abusive ex who also ‘shoved me in anger’ because I wanted to leave the room and wouldn’t stop asking to be allowed to leave, made damned sure that he took full advantage of using my zero support system as ‘evidence’ of me being ‘chaotic’ and ‘unreliable whilst the actual truth was that I HAD NO FAMILY and friends were themselves single mothers whilst he merrily carried on leaning on his mummy snd daddy and even ME when he needed to swap things around because of sudden and unexpected things (or even once his own damned lack of organisation)

I too would actually be quite interested to hear your exes side of the story - mine painted himself as the victim too...

Yes I do think it looks odd that he hurried down to claim verbal abuse and slipped in his own physical abuse under the guise of being honest, while trying to maintain a narrative of being abused. I just feel sorry for the child.

She knows that if she calls, I will jump. It's unfortunate some read into this as me shoving her means I'm not a victim of domestic abuse. I'm far from being not guilty of pushing her, I admit this; but if you know what its like to be constantly put down, belittled about everything you do, made to feel bad about yourself, made to think your crazy, made to feel guilty about something you did wrong 3 years ago... all in front of your son and saying that the way she is acting is all because of me. She has even taken away the birthday present I got of our son's hand and foot that was cast when he was a baby. I keep asking for it back, but she has taken it to her parents. She justifies this because she says she is worried it might get damaged in an argument... which is fricking ridiculous.

I am NOT saying that all of these reasons justify MY actions, far from it. Am I a victim? Who knows, you are only hearing from me; but I wonder how many women you would say "I too would actually be quite interested to hear your exes side of the story - mine painted himself as the victim too...".

I appreciate everyone else's constructive responses so thank you. I am going to go back to mediation to try and resolve this.

Unfortunately there seems to be no way that she will stay in the same area. I am however now considering renting for a year in the area even though I can't afford it on my salary. I will just have to pay for it out of my house sale. Or I might buy a cheap 1 bed flat and make the dining/ living room into my sons room.