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Legal matters

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Separation and changing school half way through year 4

66 replies

Darkfyre · 19/11/2020 02:04

Hi all,

Need some advice.
Background:
I am separating from my partner at the moment.
We are not married and have an 8 year old son.
House is currently sold, but we haven't moved.
I plan to move to my parents and my partner is moving to hers.
My parents have two spare rooms which I am converting into bedrooms. They live in the same town approx 20-40 mins away depending on traffic.
My partners parents have no spare rooms. They live 1hour 40 mins away.

Situation: We have been to 2 mediation sessions and cannot agree on who should have our Son weekdays.
My point: Move and separation is stressful enough. Let our Son stay at current school and I will commute him. Less disruption, keeps his friends and education not disrupted. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the school, he is happy there.

Her point: If he moves down where she is, schools will be 8 minutes walk away. Can gain independence in walking to school himself in year 5&6. She also says that because she has been doing all the little things (like remembering Odd-sock day, world book day etc.) she is better suited for weekday parenting.

Conclusion, I don't want him moving school for the sake of it. She doesn't like the idea of a 20-40 min driven commute each way and would rather him be local enough to walk. Note: There is issue over secondary school, but we are more aligned here so I won't go into detail on that.

Legal:
As I understand it, schools require both parents consent to move a child out of a school to another (yes I have PR). If I don't give consent, she cannot move him out of his school.

Problem:
As we have not come to an agreement or compromise, the likely immediate outcome is that our Son will come with me to continue his current school and I will commute him in.

As such, she is now in contact with a Solicitor who has sent me a letter asking why I have cancelled the next mediation appointment (which was not cancelled, as we had "pencilled" it in and I'm not up for it as it is getting us no-where). It goes on to say that they have been instructed to make an application for a specific issue order and a child arrangement order to settle the arrangements for our son.

When I asked her about this, she denies that she has instructed her solicitor to do so.

I have been asked to get in touch within 14 days.

I am rather concerned, but should this go to court, I expect that I will be the resident parent doing the school commute. Does this help me?

I am seeking legal advice, and have put feelers out for family solicitors with free introduction consultations.

Any advice would be greatly welcomed, and if I can clarify anything, please let me know.

P.S. She has just started a new job and therefore can't get a mortgage for at least 3-6 months. Therefore our Son will be sleeping on a mattress in his grandmothers room, while she will be sleeping on a sofabed. We have agreed that whoever has residency (Mon-Fri) the other will see him 3 weekends out of 4 on average and we will share school holidays equally.
In contrast, with me, he will immediately have his own space and bedroom.

OP posts:
FortunesFave · 19/11/2020 03:31

My first question is this...if the house is sold, why are you both not buying your own homes or renting one instead of moving miles away to your parents homes?

A commute of that length is detrimental to a child of that age. Not to mention making after school events and playdates tricky.

FortunesFave · 19/11/2020 03:33

Oh just seen...she can't get a mortgage yet. Ok. Another point is that the residency set up which you're both enisioning is unfair to the resident parent. Why should the resident parent only get one weekend a month?

It's not enough.

Blondie1984 · 19/11/2020 03:38

How has he responded to/managed news of the break up? Could moving schools at a time when so much else in his world is changing not just be unnecessarily challenging

FortunesFave · 19/11/2020 05:06

Blondie OP says their partner is a she.

FourPlatinumRings · 19/11/2020 05:11

It's tough to say which way the courts will find, OP. If your partner generally is the primary carer, that will carry a lot of weight. Why can neither of you rent close to the school?

MinimumChips · 19/11/2020 05:18

I think you should both rent apartments close to your son’s school for six months and then look to buy. He should not have to lose his school and move away from his friends while also dealing with his parents break up. He also shouldn’t have a long commute to school each day just to make your lives the way you want them. Rent separate small apartments near your current neighbourhood and your son will then be able to have dinner on Wednesday with the parent who he doesn’t normally see on weekdays and will spend weekends in his own neighbourhood rather than being in a totally different area each weekend.

FourPlatinumRings · 19/11/2020 05:33

If you both rent nearby, you'll even be able to do 50/50 care.

RedHelenB · 19/11/2020 05:36

The commute really isnt that long a distance for an 8 year old. Personally I'd keep in at the school.he's at for now.

Omeara · 19/11/2020 05:41

I think remaining in the current school would be best but I don’t think either of you will be living somewhere suitable for this to happen.

Why do you both have to move so far? Who has been the primary carer up until now?

TheVanguardSix · 19/11/2020 05:54

What does your son want? He's old enough to really articulate this. This really ought to be shaping your decision more. The other thing is, do not make your ex out to be some less than parent because your DS won't have his own space at grandparents' house. It is not ideal. But it is temporary and needs must. Your DS will be very loved in both homes and that is key. So, try not to be down on your ex about that.

That said, why on earth are you both running miles away back to your parents when you have the means to rent locally, near the school. At least one of you should remain local if keeping him in his school is that important, which I think it is given the fact that he's very happy and settled there.
The split of his parents is hard enough. I can't see why you're both refusing to work together to make your DS's landing a softer one. There's really no excuse, other than you're both broke and can't afford rent (but you've got proceeds from your home, right?), for not staying in the community your son has been a part of, lifelong. Community and people are everything right now. I'd focus on making your son's last 2 years of primary school at his current one manageable. I'd rent locally so that he can still see his mates outside of school. Odd socks day and who's managing it better as a parent is a moot point! Your son's emotional stability pretty much trumps everything right now.

KittenCalledBob · 19/11/2020 05:59

Do you and your partner both work full time? Is one of you currently the primary carer? On the face of it I think your set up sounds better than your partner's (own bedroom and not moving schools) but still far from ideal (due to the commute).

I agree with other posters that you should carry on exploring other options (eg renting nearby) and I think you should carry on going to mediation to keep discussing this. I know you feel that you're getting nowhere, but two sessions isn't very many - I'd give it another chance.

KittenCalledBob · 19/11/2020 06:03

FortunesFave I assume the reason why it would only be one weekend a month is because the other parent isn't seeing the child at all during the week.

CeeceeBloomingdale · 19/11/2020 06:04

I'd ask your son for input on what he wants to do. Is he happy and doing well at school with a good circle of friends? Or could a change be beneficial?

LaLaLandIsNoFun · 19/11/2020 06:08

The commute of 20-40 minutes is a complete red herring.

Why aren’t you both trying to work together to make sure you can both be separate but remain in the same area? Sounds to like at least one of you is attempting to simply gain the upper hand - this smells very like the financial and domestic abuse I experienced from my ex partner in an effort to get what he wanted.

FortunesFave · 19/11/2020 06:16

I agree with LaLa. You should both stand on your own two feet, rent a flat each and be independent. Why are you both running back to your parent's houses?

TW2013 · 19/11/2020 06:24

At this stage you need to consider where you want him to be resident for secondary school. You can't just rock up in the August at the end of year 6 and walk into a good secondary school. He will need to be resident in the location at a minimum by the October of yr6 which is less than two years away. It might be harder to settle in yr6 than yr4 and that would mean two school moves within a year. Do check the specific entry requirements of the intended secondary school.

Although you say the World book days, Christmas jumper day, wear a stripy top for zebras or whatever are the small things they are really not small for a child. Even my otherwise very confident 15yr old asks me to double check with her that it is own clothes day. The feeling of turning up in the wrong clothes or with the wrong stuff could mean a lot to ds especially if it marks a shift from it all being remembered. The school doesn't always give loads of warning so you would need to prioritise it.

Having said that sleeping on a mattress is also not ideal so I would propose staying with you for the months before the house is bought and then moving if that is where the secondary school is by yr5 to give a chance to make some friends in the local area. If the secondary school is near you then it would make no sense to move schools at all.

KittenCalledBob · 19/11/2020 06:41

@TW2013 makes a very good point about secondary school admissions. You'll be applying in under two years so it is really important to think about that now. Some schools use a distance criteria but others have a feeder school system.

When you both move out of your parents' houses and get your own places (either buying or rented), where are they likely to be? Near your parents, or close to where you live now?

You need to think about the longer term as well as the immediate future.

I really advise you to go back to mediation.

NerrSnerr · 19/11/2020 07:15

Why are you both moving in with your parents? Would your son get into secondary school of choice where you live?

She also says that because she has been doing all the little things (like remembering Odd-sock day, world book day etc.) she is better suited for weekday parenting.

Does this mean that she does all the school admin? How involved are you at all with this? Have you ever tried to be involved?

dontdisturbmenow · 19/11/2020 09:57

You make no mention of work. This 20-40 minutes commute (more likely the latter during rush hour which will be the case going to school), is this leaving about 7:30am?

And what happens in the afternoon? You'll be able to pick him up at 3pm? If he has to go to breakfast/after school in, then 40mns travel is definitely not in his best interest.

Darkfyre · 19/11/2020 11:42

Wow thank you everyone for your quick responses!#

Ill try now to answer all your questions.

To clarify, I am father, ex is mother sorry for being vague, it wasn't intentional :)

My ex wants to move to her parents so she can get their support. She wants to move away and I can't exactly stop her! I have suggest that she buys a house somewhere in between which would mean that we could co-parent and have a mid week hand over. If we were both within 20-40min commute, we could share PR equally. This did not go down well as she doesn't like the areas in between. She also complained that she wouldnt get as big a house for her money as she would near her parents (still a 2-3 bed house, but not as big).

We have both been primary carers. Since birth, we have both worked full time until about two years ago. My ex worked in London and had long commutes so up until the age of 5-6 years of age, I did the drop offs and pick ups from Childminder or my parents who picked him up from school. In Jan 2019, my ex kicked in her job and started her own business where she joined a franchise. I joined in as director in the hopes that the change of pace would help reduce her anxiety, stress and depression as the new business was a Creative/ Arty party organisation and activity focused business providing classes for kids and adults to do messy art. This allowed my ex to take over the dropping of and picking up of our son from school, which was one of the reasons why she wanted the change.

Unfortunately after the first year, optimistic me found that nothing had changed at home. Rows were still frequent. Home life was still a mess, I was still depressed.

I went to CBT for 6 weeks and came out with a different mindset. I started the gym to get healthy, improved my diet and decided that enough was enough. The constant rows at home were not good for our son. She has been threatening to leave or repeatedly asking me to "get out" for years. I had attended some domestic abuse training at work and had come to the realisation that I had been on the receiving end of verbal abuse and coercive control for years and not realised it. The last straw was she when during an argument she threatened to commit suicide within ear shot of our son. That was something I had to resolve and assure him she didn't really mean it (she has said it a few times in the past and I have reasoned it out with her). So I decided to make the decision formal and broke it to her over an email that I wanted to separate (I wanted her to know I was serious, rather than being a empty threat in an argument)- outlining some ideas I had on how it could work (one being the one above about her moving locally). This was in November 2019.

I had no intention of this impacting her/ our business (I just helped with the finance as this is my expertise in my day job). BUT, with my decision to separate, she decided to close the business down. So that was £20k down the swanny (we had saved for some time, we are not in debt because of it). Never-mind I said, move on. The plan was that I would support her and we would stay in our house until she found a job, had stayed in it for 3 months and then we could sell the house as she could get a mortgage. Then Covid hit and that went down the proverbial loo!

Then the Stamp Duty change happened and she said, lets sell now. I agreed!

As it stands now, as previously mentioned she has just started a new job (this is her first week). She purposely sought a job that was near her parents so it fit with her plans. Both of our jobs are flexible in hours. As such, my plans are to drop him off to breakfast club before school, but this might not be totally necessary as I can start work a bit later and make time up in the evening after I have put my Son to bed. Likewise, I can pick him up from school, but I have already made arrangements for afterschool club on a Tuesday as he has Cubs at 7 near school so we can go straight there after I pick him up. So that should work once things get "back to normal". My parents have also agreed to help in pick ups and drop offs. This wouldn't be anything new as they help already.

I am moving back to my parents because they live in a large house that is split into two flats. Their flat has 4 bedrooms, and the downstairs flat has 2. I plan to buy the downstairs flat which is possible within the next year or so to make the whole house one property. My parents who are in their 70's could then move downstairs and I would live upstairs with our Son. I plan to renovate the property as well. Bare in mind, I am moving only 6 miles away, in the same town which is also where I work - but I am Working from home and that isn't like to change. She is moving 58 miles away.

There is absolutely no chance in hell she will agree to rent.

I don't mean to underplay the little things, all I am trying to get at is that I have no problem taking responsibility for these. In the past, she has indeed done the admin.

My goal is to retain some stability for our son in keeping him at his current school when everything else is changing around him. She wants to change it all.

Thank you @TW2013 for your insight onto Secondary schools. I didn't know that. On that regard, I am hoping to have our son try for our local grammar schools first and was hoping that the secondary school that she wants him to go to would serve as a backup plan. One of these grammars is one of the top boys grammars in the country.

Her concern is that if he doesn't move down with her and move into the local primary school that he wont get in as they do indeed feed into the secondary.

She will be moving out of her parents once she can secure a mortgage but will remain very local to them as the town she is moving to is small.

I feel that mediation is her way to try and get the upper hand. Now that I "Cancelled" our pencilled in Mediation, she is now trying to do the same thing via her solicitor but threatening the various orders.

She says she doesn't want to go to court, but if I refuse to consent in him moving school, I guess she doesn't have any other way to get what she wants.

I asked her last night to at least go with a "trial" period and not push for anything until he finishes his current school year. Could we then evaluate after this as she might see it working... She said that's going to happen anyway. When I asked her whether she thought that if she saw things we working, that she might change her mind, she blanked me. Perhaps I was pushing it a bit there :)

Our son is fully aware of the separation and move. My ex says that he see's it as an "adventure". My understanding is he would prefer to stay at his current school and move with me and see his mummy on the weekends.

@KittenCalledBob + @FortunesFave The idea of 1 weekend a month for resident parent is that the other parent isn't seeing the child at all during the week (doesn't help she is moving so far away).

Jeepers, this message got long.

For everyone who is reading and responding, thank you ever so much for your time. It's such a relief just to be able to talk about this with people who are not biased one way or the other.

Its not like I don't get her side of the argument. Yes it would be good if be at a junior school that is 8 mins away from home that feeds into an outstanding state secondary. But why force it when he can stay where he is and have some sense of continuity and stability.
I don't see the commute as an issue, I used to be driven to primary & secondary school. Many of my friends at secondary used to have an hour & half bus ride to and from school.

Anyway, I'll leave it there for now... back to work. Phew!

OP posts:
FortunesFave · 19/11/2020 12:01

I honestly think that while it would be very convenient for you to move in with your parents, it would be better all round for you to move closer to the town where your ex is.

The fact that he can walk to school and get into an outstanding secondary is very positive. The time goes so fast at primary...secondary will be here before you know it and there's no guarantee he will get into grammar.

Why can't you buy a house?

Darkfyre · 19/11/2020 12:46

@FortunesFave

I honestly think that while it would be very convenient for you to move in with your parents, it would be better all round for you to move closer to the town where your ex is.

The fact that he can walk to school and get into an outstanding secondary is very positive. The time goes so fast at primary...secondary will be here before you know it and there's no guarantee he will get into grammar.

Why can't you buy a house?

Well its not like there isn't a good secondary school near where I will be living. There is, but the secondary near where my ex is moving to is supposed to be a compromise that the mediator is always going for.

He would be able to walk to Secondary quite easily if it was the one near me too!

OP posts:
Darkfyre · 19/11/2020 12:48

P.S. The idea is to buy the other flat below my parents and making the two flats back into one household.

OP posts:
FortunesFave · 19/11/2020 13:11

I think it all sounds very tricky...I mean, are you comfortable with your exes behavior around your son? What about this suicide threat? Is she violent? Or was the abuse mental and verbal alone?

You might be better going to court in all honesty.

FortunesFave · 19/11/2020 13:25

^they have been instructed to make an application for a specific issue order and a child arrangement order to settle the arrangements for our son.*

What issue order can I ask?