Childs mother has refused contact due to covid-19 - help?

[JugglingaBoxofFrogs]

My son has a four year old child and since he split with his ex over 2 years ago, they have had shared care (1 week on, 1 week off). This has worked well and has ensured stability and routine for the child.

Last year they had to go to mediation because she decided that she should have their child more often (read - when it suited her) because she "could not cope with not seeing her child". This resulted in a joint signed agreement at mediation that the 50/50 arrangement would stand and they were both happy with this.

My son has a very good bond with his child and, in fact, he is often told that when the child is with their mother, the child is constantly asking to see their father. I will say that when the child is with the father the child never asks to see their mother and often refuses to speak to her when she asks to facetime. My son always encourages his child to maintain this contact even when the child appears not to want it.

The mother is quite self centred and everything appears to revolve around what she wants, not necessarily what is best for the child. The opposite can be said for the Father - he is devoted and his week "on" revolves around what is best for the child.

That's a bit of background.

My son was expecting to collect his child tomorrow as usual, for the week. Yesterday the mother informed him that she doesn't want the child out of her sight because of the virus and because of this, contact has been denied. She has since decided that the child has been showing symptoms since thursday so she is self isolating for two weeks and will decide at the end of the two weeks what she wants to do. My son has spoken to his child this evening, at the childs request. The child said "I'm allowed to go out for a walk but I'm not allowed to be with people because it's too dangerous". This child is 4 years old and has been told by their mother that being around people is too dangerous. I am gobsmacked and, quite frankly, extremely concerned.

I have checked NHS guidelines and apparently if you are showing symptoms you should self isolate for 7 days (not two weeks). If you have been in contact with an affected person, it's two weeks.

I have also checked Cafcass guidelines for contact, and they clearly state that contact should be maintained as normal unless there is a very good reason to change it.

I don't believe for one moment that the child is ill. I believe it is a manipulation to prevent the child from leaving her care. My son is an extremely capable parent and he has always been more hands on than the mother.

My son feels that because he is only the father, there is nothing he can do, that the mother has all the rights, and he's scared that he will be prevented from seeing his child for months. I fully expect the mother to say in two weeks time that she was wrong and that the child is showing symptoms again - sorry if I'm not explaining this very well. Basically, we feel that this will be a permanent cycle until September when, hopefully, the schools will re-start.

Will they have to re-start mediation given that they've already been and have a signed agreement. Will the signed agreement hold any sway with a court? Can the mother basically withhold contact for months, using the coronavirus as an excuse?

Is there anything he can do to resolve this in a timely manner?

Thank you to anyone who can give good advice.

You clearly don't like your ex DIL even though she is absolutely right in this situation. Keep your thoughts to yourself would be my advice.

i think she’s completely right tbh

She's explained self isolating to a 4 year old in a similar way as I've explained it to my 6 year old and quarantine for 14 days is absolutely correct.
I've got my doubts that 50/50 shared custody is a good thing right now but obviously your son can take this to court and see what they say. I know if my daughter was away with her dad for a week at a time I'd be Ill with anxiety.

She is right, I have done the same, set up plenty of video chat time and games for them to play, books to read, play doh for both them and their dad so they can make things together over video, and when things improve he can have them for a week or 2, or however long he can get off work.

He completely understands, this is about protecting everyone.

My 4 year old and 3 year old also know that there is a bug going around and we need to stay away from people as much as possible, why is that bad parenting exactly?

I’m sorry OP, she may be manipulating or she may not be, but for him to be around people whether or not he has symptoms, is dangerous. We have told our 4 year old this and that this is an illness that means some people, mostly older people will die. She is very able to understand that and I need her to have enough concern that when we take her for a walk she doesn’t just run up to people. She also needs clear information on why her world has just turned upside down. She is coping well with this and on FaceTime telling her gran who keeps going out ‘you need to stop grab, so you don’t get ill and give it to other people’. We were proud and gave her a treat as she has more wisdom than my 68 year old mother!

Of course you and your son are upset. Sorry, I haven’t read everything, is she allowing FaceTime contact? Courts will not be operating or prioritising issues like this just now - only emergencies. This is painful but you have to get it into perspectives in relation to the danger we are all in.

you really dont like "the mother", do you?

dont be a dick and support your clear mummys boy son. The x is in the right and even if it was the opposite sex keeping the childi would say the same.

keep out of it. none of yous business

This is legal. Legal advice not personal opinions.

All the rps who do this will have to face this in time in court.
Especially as some children are still having to attend school due to their parents being key workers.

The nrp can isolate the dc just the same as the mother.
At a time where the world is going in to lockdown, a child has as much right to spend time with the other parent.

@SleepyNightOwl It’s not a big deal if the child was in school 48 hrs previously; the mother is clearly using the child as a weapon.

As you can see from the news children should still be maintaining contact.

@64sNewName you have misinterpreted me entirely .
Covid-19 is a big deal.
The child seeing their parent is not.

She’s right, you’re wrong. Leave the mother to mother yes?

It couldn't be clearer that you have little but contempt for 'the mother'.

Parents will be taking judgement calls at this point (hopefully together) and acting with varying levels of caution (hopefully at minimum what is being recommended or imposed by the government). Although I understand there is an exception being made to lockdown for parental access, it doesn't sound like your DIL is proposing something totally outrageous by suggesting that the child is not moved between homes, but that your son can come over whenever he wants for as long as he wants.

It actually sounds like a fairly middle ground to me in that it's risking exposing your grandchild to one extra person on the basis that the father relationship is worth the risk but not exposing them to another environment.

I can imagine that it is incredibly upsetting for whichever parent doesn't have their child with them for whatever period while this is all ongoing but I think this is the part of parenting that's about self-sacrifice for the good of your children.

If your son agrees that rationally this is a decent suggestion despite how difficult he may find it, or considers that it is not worth souring relations for the next many years over a few weeks or months worth of arrangements, then I'm not sure it's really your place to interfere.

It sounds like he will absolutely make the most of her offer to come to her house whenever he likes and it's nice that they're civil enough for that to be realistic.

We’re not seeing SD until the government decides to lift to social distancing rule. It’s safer for everyone to limit all contact with everyone

I’m glad the Mother has told him it’s dangerous. I had two young children run up to pet my dog yesterday on his daily walk (he was on a short lead so close to me). I had to politely ask them not to, but their Mother who was some distance away seemed oblivious

Gove has clarified today that families in this situation can go to both houses. However if anyone is isolating, then it’s not safe. There is now guidance on this and children do not need to be separated from parents if everything is ok in both households.

Well it now appears that everything is, and has been, OK in both households. She has admitted today that neither of them have shown any symptoms over the last 10 days. She said today that because the government have asked people to socially distance themselves, this means that she has not been able to spend time with her friends and if their son stays with his dad, she will be alone and this will make her unhappy. She only has their sons best interests at heart and these interests would not be served if his mother was unhappy. She has also now said that visits to her house are off the table but he can facetime if he wants. He did this today and his son asked when he could see his daddy at which point mum told him that it's too dangerous to see daddy - not quite sure how a child processes that, but hopefully he will be able to do it in a positive way.

They are no further forward and I'm not getting involved because it is not my place. Many thanks to those people who took the time to answer my OP - I do appreciate it.

He could of course go for a court decision regarding access if she abuses the contact agreement from mediation. This would help enshrine the arrangements. She does have to stick to the arrangements if it’s safe to do so: no one with symptoms!

This seems so unbelievable (the idea that your DIL would now turn around and say "OK, I was lying, no symptoms, and I want or son with me because I'm bored without my friends"). Is this actually truly what had been said? I wonder if you're getting a garbled version from your son. Be alive to that possibility and try not to let your existing feelings towards you DIL get in the way of common caution at second hand information.

If this is really truly the case, though, and it genuinely seems that this is being used as an excuse, then as other posters have said your son can always apply to the courts for formal access arrangements and for those to be enforced.

I wonder whether it's worth bearing in mind that the existing one week on, one week off might not be considered workable long term as the child moves through school? I'm sure someone on here can advise.

Op listen, stop making out that the kid is dumb or will be damaged from knowing certain things aren’t safe right now. Leave her and the kid be. They are safe, at home and isolating like many hundreds of other families are doing, myself included. No one comes in our home and we do not leave. My partner might if he absolutely has to but other than that we are all in lockdown. Stop being pathetic and actually out the child first. You’re being very petty and it’s gross.

This is not gross. Keeping DC away from the other parent is rampant right now. Any false excuse is being used and it can be controlling and not acceptable if everyone is healthy. Clearly each household is different but suspending visiting arrangements for the foreseeable future is not acceptable in other than very specific situations.

As for the future, many households agree to alternate weeks as long as DC is cared for and can get to school. If not, the non resident parent might ask for weekends or whatever arrangement would work. I suggest this goes to court to sort it out if it cannot be settled sensibly.

Your bias is not only showing, OP, it's taking all its clothes off and running round in circles screaming "look at me".

in fact, he is often told that when the child is with their mother, the child is constantly asking to see their father. I will say that when the child is with the father the child never asks to see their mother and often refuses to speak to her when she asks to facetime. My son always encourages his child to maintain this contact even when the child appears not to want it.

Are you trying to suggest a 4 year old doesn't like and isn't bothered about their own mummy? Who is 'he often told by'? Someone supervising them all the time is there and reporting back from the family home is there? You sound deeply unpleasant. These are unprecedented times and the mother is trying to do her best to protect her child, of course the child should be taught to stay 2m away from other people when out.

I think know it's wicked to part a child from its mother. I don't care what anyone says. A mothers bond is much stronger than a fathers in most (not all) cases. And we're only hearing one side of the story here.

My god OP, you come across as an absolutely horrible person who hates the mother of her GC and your bias is sickening. Truly sickening.

Keep your nose out of this situation and stop being such a nasty person

The child repeated that being around people is too dangerous.

This is what the Chief Medical Officer said a few days ago. Stop blaming people for repeating medical advice

This should be all about the little boy and what is best for him.

50/50 contact is ideal, but not with this virus.

Whether your grandchild has covid or not the guidance is that he stay in the household he is in.

She hasn't stopped contact, she has just said your son should come to your gs not the other way round.

I think your son tells you whatever he thinks you want to hear, I think his ex is scared, as are a lot of people in the world right now, and protective over her son and I think you’re overbearing and dripping with resentment and hatred towards ‘the mother’
Besides anything else, it simply isn’t your business to sort out. I understand that you want to see your grandchild (or should I say, ‘the child’ ) and I understand that this is upsetting for your son but this whole situation and any decisions to be made are between your son and his ex. Not you.

I think your son should just wait this out and then go back to mediation and court if necessary to make a more formal CAO.