Childs mother has refused contact due to covid-19 - help?

[JugglingaBoxofFrogs]

My son has a four year old child and since he split with his ex over 2 years ago, they have had shared care (1 week on, 1 week off). This has worked well and has ensured stability and routine for the child.

Last year they had to go to mediation because she decided that she should have their child more often (read - when it suited her) because she "could not cope with not seeing her child". This resulted in a joint signed agreement at mediation that the 50/50 arrangement would stand and they were both happy with this.

My son has a very good bond with his child and, in fact, he is often told that when the child is with their mother, the child is constantly asking to see their father. I will say that when the child is with the father the child never asks to see their mother and often refuses to speak to her when she asks to facetime. My son always encourages his child to maintain this contact even when the child appears not to want it.

The mother is quite self centred and everything appears to revolve around what she wants, not necessarily what is best for the child. The opposite can be said for the Father - he is devoted and his week "on" revolves around what is best for the child.

That's a bit of background.

My son was expecting to collect his child tomorrow as usual, for the week. Yesterday the mother informed him that she doesn't want the child out of her sight because of the virus and because of this, contact has been denied. She has since decided that the child has been showing symptoms since thursday so she is self isolating for two weeks and will decide at the end of the two weeks what she wants to do. My son has spoken to his child this evening, at the childs request. The child said "I'm allowed to go out for a walk but I'm not allowed to be with people because it's too dangerous". This child is 4 years old and has been told by their mother that being around people is too dangerous. I am gobsmacked and, quite frankly, extremely concerned.

I have checked NHS guidelines and apparently if you are showing symptoms you should self isolate for 7 days (not two weeks). If you have been in contact with an affected person, it's two weeks.

I have also checked Cafcass guidelines for contact, and they clearly state that contact should be maintained as normal unless there is a very good reason to change it.

I don't believe for one moment that the child is ill. I believe it is a manipulation to prevent the child from leaving her care. My son is an extremely capable parent and he has always been more hands on than the mother.

My son feels that because he is only the father, there is nothing he can do, that the mother has all the rights, and he's scared that he will be prevented from seeing his child for months. I fully expect the mother to say in two weeks time that she was wrong and that the child is showing symptoms again - sorry if I'm not explaining this very well. Basically, we feel that this will be a permanent cycle until September when, hopefully, the schools will re-start.

Will they have to re-start mediation given that they've already been and have a signed agreement. Will the signed agreement hold any sway with a court? Can the mother basically withhold contact for months, using the coronavirus as an excuse?

Is there anything he can do to resolve this in a timely manner?

Thank you to anyone who can give good advice.

@Lougle

But if she genuinely believed the child had the virus surely she would be suggesting the opposite?

I think if a father was with holding their child from the mother the tone of this thread would be entirely different .
I would be devastated if I couldn’t see my children. Devastated.

Sorry but she’s right

Children shouldn’t be going between homes right now even if they have no symptoms.

She’s also right telling the child not to go near people as it’s dangerous at the moment. It would stop him from running off to someone whilst at the park for example.

It’s sad your son can’t see his child, but this is an unprecedented time and she has every right to want to keep her child close and safe

Stay out of it. If he accepts what she says then leave it alone. All the courts are shutting anyway so nothing can be done even if he did want to escalate it. If she has any reason to suspect symptoms then she is right. And if she isn't then exactly what do you think would come of trying to challenge her and in what way would that benefit your grandchild?

Up until Friday the child was at school ... so really going to his dads two days later isn’t really a big deal?

This is a useful article.

www.pinktape.co.uk/rants/corona-virus-and-separated-parents-what-to-do/

sauvignonblancplz so if it’s not a big deal, why did the schools close?

My son had a high temperature no cough we still had to self isolate

All the courts are shutting anyway so nothing can be done even if he did want to escalate it.

They’re not, they are moving to remote hearings using Skype or phone.
However they also aren’t going to entertain enforcement proceedings in cases where coronavirus is a reason for any changes.

I think if a father was with holding their child from the mother the tone of this thread would be entirely different

I disagree entirely, I would say exactly the same as I did on page 1

It is a big deal, sauvignon. Wtf. Why do you think the schools closed?

I despair.

I think if a father was with holding their child from the mother the tone of this thread would be entirely different

It’s literally life and death for some at the moment. I’d like to think people aren’t this petty right now.

I’m very careful about what I say to my 4 year old. She already knew about the virus because of extra hand washing in school nursery. Now she has been stuck in the house for over a week, now with a few walks out, she can’t go to nursery, play with friends, do her usual hobbies, go to favourite places or see grandparents. She knows about the corona and it’s dangerous. There is no way to keep this from her.

The UK is under ‘ social distancing’ NOT isolation.

Social distancing aims to REDUCE the amount of close contact. Not stop all contact.

Legal advice on child contact arrangements:

Do parents have to stick to court orders?

Court orders are meant to be stuck to, and they can be enforced if they aren’t.

If it is safe and practical to do so you should stick to them and you should expect the other parent to do so.

CAFCASS have issued guidelines with regards to child contact.

“ Unless there are justified medical/self-isolation issues guidance or expectation associated with leaving the house in your area – children should maintain their usual routine of spending time with each of their parents.

If there is a Child Arrangements Order in place this should be complied with unless to do so would put your child, or others at risk.

This will help your child to feel a sense of consistency, whilst also reassuring them that the parent they don't always live with is safe and healthy”.

www.cafcass.gov.uk/download/12285/

If she’s stopping contact - he needs to take her to court. She isn’t in charge.

Yip with the mum on this. It's about health, not 'rights'. Also why not say 2 week rolling review and then re-assess after every 2 weeks. Things might look very different. Your son needs to step back and not turn it into tug of war. The mother obv. needs reassurance and arguing accomplishes not much.

I think this is something you should be staying out of. You don't seem to like or believe your grandchild's mother at all, so that may be jaundicing your view. If you think it is an easy option for a single Mum to have full time care for a 4 year old in isolation, then I suggest you think again. It would be much easier for her to share the responsibility. But she has chosen to prioritise her child's health.

So it is a huge shame that your son isn't getting to see his child as much as usual, but lots of people are making sacrifices.

@NorthernSpirit

Thank you.

@willloman

I would agree that this would be sensible. It has already been suggested and the mother has refused to agree to it.

She is right. It's dangerous to be around other people.
You don't like her, we get it but I'm sure your son is no angel like you make out.
The way you speak about her I'm not surprised the child doesn't want to call his mum when he's around you lot. He's picking up on your negativity

You sound a like a mother of a Mummy's boy who tells his mum whatever he likes and she believes him! My Mum is like this about my brother and his now grown up child. She hated his mum and was convinced by my brother that everything he said was true and she was to blame for EVERYTHING.
Except my brother is a pathological liar! I think there may be more to this OP than you're privy to.
You're having the wool likes over your eyes here, I can tell!

Also, the fact that you refer to your grandson as "the child" & "my son's child" is frankly, chilling..

I foster, our LA have sought guidance and have stopped ALL face-to-face contact for the next four weeks there will be phone/video calls for this period. I don't think the mum is being unreasonable in this instance.

Stay out of it, please. You are not helping our son or your grandchild by making your dislike of the mother so patent. You are poisoning your son against the person he has to coparent with

I really think you should stay out of it. This flu will kill millions

Stay out of it.

I'm currently in the same situation and my ex and I have had a grown up discussion about what is best. My ex will not be able to be with his son on his 7th birthday next week because we are SI.

It's horrible, but I'm following guidelines and ex and I are talking and trying to find ways to make this easier on DS.

You don't have a foot to stand on legally. This is unprecedented and public safety is paramount.

Your son needs to arrange a set time each day or whenever to speak to his child.

I'd also just like to add that where my son is concerned the sun shines out of his dad's backside. He asks for him regularly when he's with me but rarely asks for me when he's with his dad.

Doesn't make me a bad parent, it's no reflection on my relationship with my son. It just means he totally adores his dad.

You clearly don't like your ex DIL, so maybe step away and don't look for ways to best her.

Let your son take this week by week, it's all any of us can do at the moment.

She is absolutely correct. This situation is unprecedented and the reality is that it will have far reaching consequences for most of us. This is not a time to cling onto normal routines or entitlements. It’s very literally life or death. Lots of parents will be unable to see their children for extended periods. That’s the reality. The virus doesn’t cease to pose a risk just because it seems unfair to separate children from one of their parents. The risk remains the same.

This sounds like it’s mostly coming from you, since you are talking about having done all the research yourself. If your son does feel strongly about seeing his child, the only real cast iron solution would be for him to completely isolate himself for at least 14 days and then move in with his ex and their child for the duration of the outbreak if she is willing to have him. Obviously that would require a great deal of compromise on both their parts and there would be many practical considerations in terms of their individual exposure to the virus and how much of a risk they each pose to the other (working from home vs NHS frontline etc).