Contact order / prohibited steps

[FinallyFree123456789]

We have had a contact order since 2012
Today I was also granted an emergency Prohibited steps order. No-one seems to know if they continue to follow the contact order or if they follow the prohibited steps order - which the short of it says not to remove dd from my care, school or anyone else's care I leave her in - save for contact orders.

Ex thinks he can still have dd.
School don't know.
Court enquiries line have said follow the PSO as that is the most recent paperwork and don't allow dd to go.
Solicitors tell me different things.

What do I do as he's due to have contact on Friday - and the school aren't proactive in finding out their legal position.

What is the exact wording of the prohibited steps order?

What did the judge say in court?
That DD can’t be removed from your care at all or that she can’t be removed from your care except for the contact order? Presumably your DD is at some kind of risk if a PSO has been made?

Exact wording -:

Dd cannot be removed from care of FinallyFree123456789, the care of anyone instructed by FinallyFree123456789 or from school or nursery except for orders of the court.
Expires April 2019

Next Hearing in 14 days

Judge didn't say anything - I went asking for a non mol ... but because I wasn't at risk and dd was he gave me a pso instead with no notice to dad.

Rang for advice and court said to follow this one as it's the newest - I don't want to get in trouble with the court for not following either one of them.
Also concerned school will allow dd to go with dad on Friday

However,
Why would they give me a pso and then tell me to follow the court order we have previously been given - as she is at risk with dad ... not at risk of abduction but other risks.

Were you represented? You say solicitors say different things but what about the one who was with you on the day?

In the absence of further information, on the basis she is at risk, I would not allow any contact until this next hearing.

No I wasn't represented.

I called a local solicitor after I had the paperwork in hand as I had her dad abusing me over what he is/is not doing - So I called to check but the solicitor said don't hand over wasn't sure and gave me another number to ring - they also wasn't sure and said I should hand her over.
Court advice went off to ask a legal representative and they said to stop contact until the next hearing if I have concerns as that's why the pso was granted.

School are concerning me though as that's where he collects from - and they're sitting on the fence with what they're going to do

It seems likely a poorly worded order. If your daughter is at risk I would remove her from school early on Friday or potentially not send her in. Her safety is priority.

As a lay person I would read it then she can't be removed unless there is a new court instruction superseding that one...

I agree it is poorly worded.
I have offered him contact with her on his times - with me present - he has refused as said he is collecting her as normal on Friday.

I'm going to go back to the school tomorrow and ask that they contact the local authority legal department to get their take on it. If they say they're happy to send her with her dad on his contact time I'll have to keep her at home and suffer any consequences that come from that.

The later order prevails and it says not remove her from you or school so that's that. He will have to wait for a further order or hearing to ask for a right to have her handed over. I think the PSO is clear.

If you choose to hand her over that is different although that might affect how the PSO is treated at the next hearing - someone happy to hand the child over can hardly be someone n eeding this PSO

I think it is clearly worded:

Dd cannot be removed from care of FinallyFree123456789, the care of anyone instructed by FinallyFree123456789 or from school or nursery except for orders of the court.
Expires April 2019

DD cannot be removed from care of FinallyFree123456789

or anyone FinallyFree123456789 has given care and responsibility for the child, ie nanny, childminder, grandparent etc

and cannot be removed from school or nursery, presumably without the express signed permission of FinallyFree123456789

and this order is in force until April 2019 - or until another order is granted before that date

It is quite clear that this order supercedes all previous orders and arrangements.

FinallyFree123456789 needs to get some photocopies of this order and email and personally hand deliver them to the to school, Headmaster/Headmistress, Head Teacher, the school office, The Legal people at the school and the Governors etc and the local police and get it signed for at the police station. Make sure the Police understand what it means, a policeman hovering at the school would be useful on the day

Schools like to not get involved and often don't understand the implications of a Court order, they tend to live in a bubble. Send a copy, through several ways, to the Father so he can't pretend he doesn't understand or know about it, including to his work etc or ask the Court to do this too. Nip this in the bud otherwise it will go on and on

Stopping him taking the child is a whole lot easier that trying to get the child back, this can takes weeks/ months. If there is any attempt by the Father to take the child from the school go back to Court and ask for Power of Arrest to be added it, you may not get this at the first attempt but the Judge will have Father in before him, will make sure he understands the order and will explain in no uncertain terms what happens if he tries this again.

Please take this seriously

I expect the part causing confusion is “except for orders of the court”. The order is not clear whether than means the existing CAO or future orders made following the next hearing.

Hi everyone!

So, I went into court - they have said clearly that this is the most current order and prevents any removal unless he has my written permission OR a new court order dated after the prohibited steps order.
Any orders dated after our contact order trumps the contact order.

Social services are aware and I'm going to contact the police also. The school are still dithering between what they are doing - failing any actual concrete evidence of them saying they will not be handing dd over to dad - she'll have to be at home with me as she did have a stomach ache this morning......

Still concerning me that the school are so blasé about this

Also, I already have power of arrested attached to it.

This is my 2nd prohibited steps as he managed to get the first one removed a few years ago.

I agree that the order is clear.

Your dd's school need to pull their fingers out and abide by the order.

Major safeguarding fail (and breach of order) if they let her go with him.

The order means he cannot remove her from your care without your permission, including from school.

Lodge it with police as it has a power of arrest attached to it. Tell them F is threatening to collect her on Friday.

Do a formal letter to the school, cc Local Education Authority.

Dear [HT]

On x I attended court because of concerns about [name of DD] when she is in the care of her DF [name]. The hearing was without notice to DF.

The court made an interim order, the effect of which is that DD cannot be removed from me or from anyone caring for DD on my behalf (including school) without my permission.

The order has a power of arrest attached to it.

The order will be reviewed at another hearing on [date].

Until another order is made, the effect of this order is that the school must not release DD to the care of anyone without my permission. This letter is to confirm that I do not give permission for [DF] to collect DD from school. She must only be released to my care [or the care of.....if others, list them here].

At present, [DF] is threatening to attend school on Friday to collect DD as under a previous order made in 2012 she was to have contact with him this weekend. However, the order of [date] supercedes any other orders made prior to it, including the Child Arrangements/Contact order made in 2012. To be clear, I do not consent to DF collecting DD on Friday, or on any other day.

I have spoken to you about this and you have told me you are unsure about the effect of the order. I urge you to take immediate legal advice. If you release DD to [DF's] care without my consent then this will be a serious matter, it will be a breach of the order of [date] and you will have breached your safeguarding duties towards DD. If you remain unsure, I urge you to take advice from the Local Education Authority.

Yours sincerely

If situation still unclear on Friday and she's well, send her in but pick her up early. If school ask, invent a dr/dentist etc appointment.

If you prefer to keep her off all day, this would be understandable if there remains a risk DF will go for her and the school hasn't confirmed it won't hand her over.

Write to DF too, email or hand delivered letter, informing him that this is the effect of the order and there is a power of arrest attached to it which means if he breaches it he will be arrested.

You MUST lodge the order with the police and warn them about Friday (and any other contact days between now and the next hearing date).

The school are behaving very badly and causing you unnecessary worry. This must be a common problem with schools and they should be trained properly about it. It needs to be explained to them very clearly, from higher up, MP etc that disregarding a Court Order is very serious. I agree you are definitely doing the right thing keeping you DD at home until you are sure that the school can show that they are capable of keeping her safe. I completely agree with iMatter what a shocking situation, the school needs checking out and dealt with urgently

Thank you everyone - I'll keep updating but am currently going round in circles with the school so am on hold to the police ....

No-one seems to be able to read!

A formal letter to school and LEA will make them make a decision. The council will have a legal dept who will get involved and advise the school.
They all hate formal letters because they set up an evidence trail. Whether it's an email or a letter, it doesn't matter, as long as it's in writing.

I've sent an email to the head teacher of the school outlining there is the prohibited steps and this needs to be followed.
I've also dropped them a copy into the office. They haven't replied.

I guess I've got until 8:45 tomorrow to make a decision about dd going to school.
If I take her to school - and they're still saying they'll let dad collect - could I go and collect her earlier than the end of school?

Yes. Just tell them you have an appointment if they ask.
The alternative is to ask the the local PCSO is there to make sure DF doesn't take her and then just go as normal. The police might call him up instead and tell him if he turns up he'll be arrested. That might work.
See how helpful the police are.

You do not need to lie about sickness or appointments.
I would speak to the school when you go to collect your daughter this evening. If they cannot give a firm assurance that they will not release her to anyone other than you then don’t take her in tomorrow. Her safety is paramount.

The sheer arrogance and ignorance of this school is breathtaking!

I would get onto the LEA and the Governors today.

I would think that sometime in the very near future someone in charge of legal affairs at the LEA, the Local Police or Social Services Safe Guarding should be explaining to this school what their responsibilities are. They must have this situation to deal with
from time to time it is not that unusual. They should have a plan in place so that there is no upsetting scenes going on at the school to embarrass and upset your DD and all the other pupils. What about other safety issues at the school ranging from fire alarms to terrorists incidents and everything in between? I would have thought even if they know nothing at all the words 'Court Order' would have grabbed someone's attention and made someone think 'I better get some advice about this'. Surely they would contact their legal department and notify their Local police who could 'flag' the school and who could send a PCSO to be around at school time who could be on the scene in case and call for some immediate help without have to tell the whole story from the beginning. Don't they ever have parents turning up drunk or weirdos hanging around? I think this school is living in La La Land

Not sure how you can say the school is in La La land. The OP showed the order to two different solicitors and the court advice line and even they gave contradictory advice! If legal professionals can’t agree, how is a school to know? The order is unclear. The problem is the whoever wrote the order in an unclear way.