Contact order / prohibited steps

[FinallyFree123456789]

We have had a contact order since 2012
Today I was also granted an emergency Prohibited steps order. No-one seems to know if they continue to follow the contact order or if they follow the prohibited steps order - which the short of it says not to remove dd from my care, school or anyone else's care I leave her in - save for contact orders.

Ex thinks he can still have dd.
School don't know.
Court enquiries line have said follow the PSO as that is the most recent paperwork and don't allow dd to go.
Solicitors tell me different things.

What do I do as he's due to have contact on Friday - and the school aren't proactive in finding out their legal position.

So .....

Police are no help. They're saying it's ambiguous and can't enforce it due to the line causing problems.

Safeguarding officer at school said its cut and dry - he's not allowed her.

Head teacher still saying if he shows up tomorrow to collect then they'll allow him to take her.

I'm in a meeting with he head teacher tonight - I'll ask her position and for it to be in writing ... then I'll make a decision based on the safety of dd.

So stressful

A solicitor would have clarified that line about other orders. It clearly means "until further order" otherwise the PSO is a nonsense. It cannot have been intended to mean the father coudls till have the chidlren i total breahc of the PSO.

If the shcool are being difficult just keep her at home on Monday. What happens when people have lawyers is the solicitors or barristers on both sides will often check the order in draft and agree it and then the judge confirms it so that people can iron out problems in advance with the wording. As the wording is causing problems you could apply to the judge to change that tiny part if that could be done in time as clearly it an urgent matter.

Update!

Head teacher has confirmed she won't be handing dd to dad as the pso trumps contact order until further court hearing.

They're concerned he'll show up at the school - so I'm collecting her from a different exit to normal 5 minutes earlier than I should!

Finally they've stepped up at the last minute! :-)

@Xenia - the Op said herself she sought advice from solicitors who were unable to agree.

Op - I’m glad the school have seen sense. I hope your next hearing goes well.

Great. Police response a bit useless, I'm surprised at that, they are normally sympathetic.
Hard to see how Head could have gone against safeguarding Officer. Glad the immediate issue is sorted.

Glad the immediate issue had been sorted. Do you have it in writing fr8m them ?

that sounds all fine. Yes, I know some solicitors could not agree but in my view it's plain - ow can a PSO order make any sense where it says child not to be handed to father if an earlier order continue and says child to spend time with father? In law if something is not clear on its face then you turn to its intended meaning so that would decide the matter here although it would have been better were it better worded in the first place. you would have thought the judge or whoever drafted it would take a good example of one of thse orders they have used before and adapted that clear wording although it may have had to be done in a hurry given the circumstances.

Good, hope everything goes smoothly tomorrow.

I was just about to digest collecting her at lunch. But i am glad to see the school have finally put in a plan.
Did they make he class teacher aware of the change.
I hope it goes smoothly tomorrow.

No don't have it in writing from the school - however I'm following her not allowed her and that's how they've interpreted it too.

Don't think I need it in writing do I? They have a copy of the pso

I think if they've agreed with you and gone as far as to suggest/decide on a plan then you don't need it in writing. You could email the HT yourself to confirm the plan and also mention it to class teacher at drop off.

Hope it all went ok today

Hi :-)

Yes all went ok - school stopped him collecting.
I went and collected her. Although he's now trying to bargain with me to get access to dd as he's now realised the school are not handing her over to him ....

Why does he think you will hand her over when she is at risk from him? Is he plain stupid?

Hopefully you are grey rock and completely ignoring him

He said he'd stay at a family members home and not leave so they can watch him ........

I've ignored him. There's nothing to say until our next court date

You must not let him have them otherwise at the next hearing the court will say you can't really need this PSO if you are happy to hand the child over.

His family have asked to see dd with me being there too.
I don't want to stop her seeing her family - but I wouldn't want him there - could I agree to them coming to my house?

Do you trust them? Are you sure no emotional blackmail will occur etc?

There is no rush to have them over, the PSO is only against him so in theory yes you can invite them over.

I don't see why they can't just wait until the next hearing. The grand parents could always telephone instead.

They're overly involved with dd because dad leaves her with them every single time he has her.
They tried attending parents evening with him .....

I'm trying to keep it normal for dd - by stopping them I feel it might go against me at court - as it always has before.
But also, I don't want to stop them as I don't have concerns with them - but I do worry they may bring him with them to see her / if I go to theirs he may be there too.

Geez just say no then, a couple of weeks breathing space will do you both good!!!

They need to be grandparents not parents...

Arrange something for a few weeks time for if the PSO remains in place.

I’d reply along the lines that you value their role in DDs life and that you’ll be willing to discuss the matter after the next hearing. It’s only two weeks away and there is the risk they could bring him. I definitely wouldn’t go to their house. If they’re unable to grasp the seriousness of the PSO, they’re not safe to be around DD.

Thank you everyone!

They make me feel like I'm the crazy one. That I made all this happen - forgetting what their precious son done to make me act to keep dd safe.

I've only just come off of anti-depressants and they have this habit of making me second guess myself ... I feel better knowing others think the same way as me - which appears to be the normal way!

Have you read the book about toxic in laws? I think you should, also have you a counsellor- sounds like you need support in believing your own gut instinct.

Family lawyer here.
It's hard to advise when we don't know the grounds on which the court made the order or what the allegations are. It is only 2 weeks.
It may be held against you that you say no to safe, supervised contact. But like I said it's only 2 weeks so on balance I don't think it will be.
Send them a nice message back to say it's only2 weeks, you have serious concerns and would prefer to agree matters at court in 2 weeks. You can put some guff in about how you value their role as GPs and his role as DF but DD's welfare must come first.