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Separating from partner and sending child to live with grandparents

59 replies

ChildFreeWeek · 09/07/2018 12:46

I'm separating from my partner and have sent my daughter (2)to live my parents (150 miles away). He agreed to this before we decided to separate (financial problems and this was a solution to downsize and rent somewhere cheaper I order to pay off debts/save for a deposit). But when it it came to doing it he was trying to put it off so i took her without his agreement.

Our situation was that I worked mon-Fri during the day. He would look after her and then go to work during the night. It got to the stage where he wasnt sleeping during the evening before his shift, so no proper sleep during the week , instead dozing during the day when he was supposed to be taking care of our daughter. He wasn't willing to pay for childcare and I could't afford it as I was covering all household expense and need to get money together for a deposit for a new place. So DD was staying home during the day and basically entertained herself on the tablet. He would feed her etc, but it was a case of peanut sandwiches, brad and eggs, porridge most of the time. He was too tired to take her to swimming lessons. But he would drive the car during the day which is dangerous cosidering he had little to no sleep. This is the background to our situation. Now we are separating, he said he would take her to live with him and that he would get someone to look atfter her overnight. I know he wouldn't be using a registered childcare provider and would still not be able to after properly during the day. He does have parental responsibility.

I think it is in my daughters best interest to stay with her grandparents until my situation improves financially and the is more stable. This is a short term, for about a year. She will be living in a house with garden, attending nursery for a couple of days a week and have a chance to make friends, have a routine, decent meals, grandparents who will give her attention, see other family members regularly etc. At the moment she doesn't really get much interaction with other children than at a couple of sports clubs and when she is at the park.

I want to give my parents some sort of legal rights to act as her carers, so that my partner cannot take her and I'm not sure what the best way to proceed is. I'm looking at getting a solicitor, but have little money to spare at the moment. Any advice would be appreciated.

OP posts:
InDubiousBattle · 09/07/2018 12:50

I think that it's deeply unfair to remove his child from him. Are you saving to buy a House? Can you not pay for some childcare and re organise your work arrangements?

boingbat · 09/07/2018 12:55

Do you think you'll be able to cope with not seeing your daughter on a daily basis? A year is a very long time and she'll change so much. It does also seem extremely harsh on your ex partner. If he had done similar to you there would be outrage.

FuckPants · 09/07/2018 12:58

Is he on the birth certificate?

DaisysStew · 09/07/2018 13:00

Don’t waste money on a solicitor, you won’t win this in Court.

He is your DDs parent, same as you, and he gets an equal say in where she lives. If you no longer wish to have her live with you then the Court would grant full residence to your ex and visitation to you. You can’t choose to give legal rights to your parents over him purely because you’re mum. I think the fact that you’ve already gone and done it against his wishes is shocking and if it ends up in Court is going to look awful, it’s almost like you’re doing it to be spiteful- I don’t want her but I’m not letting you have her.

TheHumanMothboy · 09/07/2018 13:07

Daisys- did you notice that he was putting the child at risk by not sleeping then being in sole charge?

Parental responsibility means he needs to step up and fork out for child ca

DaisysStew · 09/07/2018 13:15

And the OP went to work leaving the child knowing this.

I’m just telling facts (I’m a single parent so no MRA) and the fact is if mum doesn’t want to be resident parent anymore and dad does then he’ll get residence. And not just for a year either. So if the OP wants to remain resident parent in the eyes of the law then she needs to actually have her child residing with her - not 150 miles away.

Travis1 · 09/07/2018 13:55

Surely you would be better relocating to be with your daughter and finding a job there? I see no way you could possibly win this in court and you certainly have no more say than your partner re giving your parents legal guardianship.

Branleuse · 09/07/2018 14:01

Can't you get help towards childcare and some benefits?
why would you not consider this first before shipping your daughter away. Or if you can't then you need to give your ex the option to take her.

JustAnotherLawyer · 09/07/2018 14:06

You situation appears to have been difficult, but it seems neither you or your partner wanted to pay for proper childcare for your child during the day. It wasn't the responsibility of one or the other of you, it was the responsibility of you both. You have actually been quite neglectful in leaving your child in the father's care when you knew he wasn't providing adequate care.

Surely there is a more amicable way of you resolving this than by taking the action you have done? Are you still living in the same household as your ex? What has he said about you removing the child to your parents home? Has he sought legal advice?

I would strongly suggest that you try to mediate and find an alternative resolution to your issues, as it is doubtful that the court will condone your actions, and you will need the father's agreement, or a court order, to provide your parents with parental responsibility. That said, the poor child cannot be moved from pillar to post and the court may find it is in her best interests to stay with her grandparents...

How long ago did you remove the child to her grandparents?

littlemisscomper · 09/07/2018 14:10

What Travis says. Does is not break your heart to think of not being there for your child for a whole year? It seems desperately sad to me.

Hont1986 · 09/07/2018 14:11

"I want to give my parents some sort of legal rights to act as her carers, so that my partner cannot take her and I'm not sure what the best way to proceed is."

If he has parental responsibility he can take her. A residence order or CAO would do this but you don't have grounds for one.

Ginger1982 · 09/07/2018 14:17

So you and your ex are both 150 miles away from your DD?? I couldn't do that and I think what you've done is very unfair.

worridmum · 09/07/2018 15:38

Yes if you send your child to live with your parents (aka they become the RP, the dad could easily challange this and become the RP with you being the NRP and you having to pay him CM)

I would strongly suggest you reconsider your plans as you wont win it will cost you a lot of money and the end result would be you forfeting your role as RP (which by sending her to your parents is doing so anyway but this way it will be offical)

ReservoirDogs · 09/07/2018 16:28

You have said that his suggestion was that he would work and pay for childcare while he worked. Of course a court would allow this and is more likely to rule in favour with your child staying with her parent.

The only way I can see it working with her staying with your parents is if he AGREES!

WhittlingIhopMonkey · 09/07/2018 16:50

I can see the ops point, her dh sounds useless and she knows any care he pays for will be crap. No one here knows her situation and what her role is or why she can't simply up sticks and move her job 150 miles away.

Op, I don't know how you do it, but I'd rather my kids were being properly looked after by my parents than living on peanut butter and YouTube with a useless dh. He had his chance to man up and he didn't.

I presume the year is to give yourself time to set up a proper life for yoh both and that you plan on being with her on weekends and holidays?

ChildFreeWeek · 18/07/2018 08:06

Thank you for all your replies. I had an error message when I posted the thread and assumed it hadn't gone through as I couldn't see it listed. I now know to look at threads I'm on instead!

I'll respond properly during my lunch break/in the evening.

OP posts:
SD1978 · 18/07/2018 23:08

I've read your other post/ the father is Arabic and from Egypt, and his visa will be ending soon(ish) I would be very careful about where he takes her- if they leave the country you won't get her back- and he will have to leave the country within the next year or two. Do you have her passport and have her on a no fly list? Ultimately if you are
Choosing to give up custody, even if you feel it's in your child's best interests, he had the right to raise his child. You need to see a lawyer, and quickly to establish that your child is well looked after. Your current arrangement does not ensure that he and your daughter doesn't leave

incywincybitofa · 18/07/2018 23:17

Wow have you actually considered the emotional impact of this arrangement on your child?
You need to sort out a legal arrangement if there is a risk of your partner leaving but if you go for residency when you aren't residing with her it won't end in your favour

ChildFreeWeek · 19/07/2018 00:57

In answers to your questions

Initially to pay off debts and then towards a deposit to buy a house.

I've already changed working arrangements to suit us: early start and finish. Ex employment situation is not stable so I can't afford to risk my job.

He is on the birth certificate.

I can't commute from my parent's home to my current job. I'm on two months notice. I've got a lot to sort out at the moment so may consider doing so if I could find a suitable job. But will proably move closer in the longterm for support as ex is unreliable.

My salary is £38k so I wasn't eligible for benefits, I suppose this may be different now I'm single. Ex visa restricts this as well.

If we stuck to our budget, cash available after monthly expenses from which I'd need to service the debt, minimum repayments c. £280, leaving £320 for savings and non essentials. From this I needed to save enough money in six months to get a deposit/rent in advance/reference fees which is probably at least £2.5k. Add childcare into the mix based on previous rates it would be £300 per week I would need to find until Ex was paid. It was nearly impossible to find a childminder who would take a child at 6.30am. I was hoping after a couple of days he would decide it wasn't worth it and initially tried to reason with him about waiting until we sent our daughter to my parents.

I think he has effectively moved out, but he still has stuff here and hasn't returned the key.

Before splitting sending daughter to my parents had been discussed. Initially he said no, but after some thought he agreed. It would us to clear the debts, save for a deposit, finish my professional qualification and he could do a PM certification. He has been struggling to find a PM job as he doesn't have UK experience/recognised qualification. This would set us up for the future.

We had been arguing about his job and childcare. Daughter had taken herself to poo on the potty and made a mess and tried to clean the poo from her knickers in with all the others clothes. It spurred me into taking immediate action. He said he could manage and was refusing to get childcare or only take a few shifts, every other day so he could rest. I suggested i take our daughter to my parents that Friday evening 22/6, rather than wait until the already agreed end of July. But he wasn't ready and was saying no. I said ok, but I was going anyway to take some stuff to store there. When I was there I made the decision to leave her there. He was angry about this. Said I had kidnapped his daughter and then he would sue me. At this point I had had enough and thought fine it's over. Said ok I'll await hearing from you. I left thing to settle. We weren't talking for a while. Then he was talking to me as though nothing had happened and didn't mention the situation, but then he was speaking to me as though he had accepted the situation as what we had planned to do as he had been offered two permanent roles, which he wanted to do trial shifts for, but would then do the temp night shift straight after. He conceded that it was best that our daughter wasn't with us as it gave him the ability at short notice to do the trial shifts. Two weeks after taking her I was going to see her and he said he would join us from the saturday after his shift finishrd in the morningand stay overnight at my parents. He asked if i could wait for hime and go together i said no i want to that evening. He saw me packing up all her stuff, he got angry as he wanted to keep some things with us in case she came to stay, I said no as we're moving out of the flat as soon as we get ourselves sorted and somewhere to live. He got reallt angry and nasty , saying that I would be keeping her away from him. He stormed off to work and I left it at that. I assumed he wouldn't be coming. Next day he sent a message that he was on his way. I met him with daughter and then it became apparent he still expected to stay at my parents. I said no chance after his behaviour. He had booked a return coach for the next day, so he was insistent that he would get a hotel room for the night with our daughter, but I said no. He could do bedtime and meet up in the morning, he wasn't interested as the coach was at two, so it wouldn't be worth it! My concern was that he had knowhere to stay and would consider staying out all night with daughter to be difficult. After his blow up on the Friday I didn't want him staying in ,y parents home. He got nasty, agressive and inches from my face and was blocking me physically from leaving. Since then we have both been at home and ships in the night. I was walking home on Monday and he was on his way to work and tried to grab my face and kiss me, which I rebuffed. He said let's go for coffee and discuss, he didn't dicuss and it was though nothing had happened again and said about the two off us renting a flat. I put him straight and that would not be happening. We left and that was it. I didn't here from him or a couple of days. Then get an angry tirade that my parents want let him speak to his daughter. I asked my dad to check all mobiles and landlines to corroborate this, but they had one missed call on a mobile. When they evtually facetimed daughter was tired from not sleeping well as a result of hot weather so didn't want to speak to him after saying hello. Ex is now accusing us of poisoning her against him. He has threatened all sorts but I'm sure it's a lot of bluster. I asked my parents to get her to call when she was in a better mood. They did try but she is refusing to and getting upset. My dad now thinks ex has done something to upset her as she is fine when they day speak to mummy. They asked her if she wants to see ex, no she wants to see mummy and daddy, no to just ex. But she is fine when they say just mummy. I think this because ex doesn't pay her much attention. She would ask him to get me from the station after work. When I got in she would be exited to see me and keep asking me to take her out.

Sorry long post.

OP posts:
ChildFreeWeek · 19/07/2018 01:06

SD1978 - I've left all my daughters documents and passport with my parents. She isn't on the no fly list yet, but I will look into it. I don't want to block him from seeing her, but his behaviour is unpredictable at the moment which concerns me. I don't want to antagonise the situation, but can't maintain the status quo either. Thank you.

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 20/07/2018 05:49

I think you are playing a very dangerous game and it could mean losing your child.

You packed up your child and gave her to someone else without his permission. You are denying him time with her that he wants. If you won't have your daughter live with you, and your ex is happy to take her full time, then he'll get her, and you will end up paying child maintenance. When it comes time for him to have to leave the country, if he has primary care, and you have barely seen your child for a year, then he'll have a good case for taking her with him.

Oliversmumsarmy · 20/07/2018 06:42

I think you need to forget about paying back debts and trying to get your qualification ATM. You need to look after your DD and get enough for a tiny flat.. Everything else can be sorted later.

Your stbex needs to step up with some maintenance and you need to get childcare for your child and have her live with you otherwise if your ex gets full custody you run the risk that ex might go back to Egypt with your DD and you may never see her again.

I would go as far as adjusting your hours if it is possible for a while till everything is sorted .

By handing over your DD to your DPS you have effectively given up your PRs

As an observation, do either of you actually love your DD. I am sure you do but I just get the impression that she is either something that has to be dealt with and on your part your DPS are better at dealing with her than you and for him she is a pawn in trying to get one over on you or to get indefinite leave to remain.

NoNarnas · 20/07/2018 06:49

Taking his child 150 miles away without his permission is just cruel. No matter how much he is struggling to look after her he is right, you effectively kidnapped her. Don’t bother with court, this won’t end well!

He has PR, you earn a decent salary. Separate, but work out a system to get some childcare and look after your child.

If it came to it, I would quit my job and move in with my parents so that I could be with my child. Nothing is more important than that.

Branleuse · 20/07/2018 07:20

Its all very noble to try and make it so you can both keep good jobs etc but NOT at the expense of your child. Your partner/ex partner is distraught about this. Him not doing as much with her as youd like or your parents would is no basis for removing a child from a parent. You dont have a leg to stand on here and frankly what you are doing is cold hearted, controlling and its assuming you have more rights than he does.

Ibelieveinkarma · 20/07/2018 07:52

Firstly, I think your username speaks volumes. Reading between the lines, your dd seems like she's an 'inconvenience' to you.
As for her trying to clean up her own potty, that's really sad, and makes me think that as young as she is she is trying not to 'annoy' her parents because of the completely understandable mess she'd made. Hence her trying to clean it herself.

Another thing, I would live in a mud hut if I had to in order to stay with my dc. Why can't/ won't you stay with your parents too until you get back on your feet? find another job if you have to.