Separating from partner and sending child to live with grandparents

[ChildFreeWeek]

I'm separating from my partner and have sent my daughter (2)to live my parents (150 miles away). He agreed to this before we decided to separate (financial problems and this was a solution to downsize and rent somewhere cheaper I order to pay off debts/save for a deposit). But when it it came to doing it he was trying to put it off so i took her without his agreement.

Our situation was that I worked mon-Fri during the day. He would look after her and then go to work during the night. It got to the stage where he wasnt sleeping during the evening before his shift, so no proper sleep during the week , instead dozing during the day when he was supposed to be taking care of our daughter. He wasn't willing to pay for childcare and I could't afford it as I was covering all household expense and need to get money together for a deposit for a new place. So DD was staying home during the day and basically entertained herself on the tablet. He would feed her etc, but it was a case of peanut sandwiches, brad and eggs, porridge most of the time. He was too tired to take her to swimming lessons. But he would drive the car during the day which is dangerous cosidering he had little to no sleep. This is the background to our situation. Now we are separating, he said he would take her to live with him and that he would get someone to look atfter her overnight. I know he wouldn't be using a registered childcare provider and would still not be able to after properly during the day. He does have parental responsibility.

I think it is in my daughters best interest to stay with her grandparents until my situation improves financially and the is more stable. This is a short term, for about a year. She will be living in a house with garden, attending nursery for a couple of days a week and have a chance to make friends, have a routine, decent meals, grandparents who will give her attention, see other family members regularly etc. At the moment she doesn't really get much interaction with other children than at a couple of sports clubs and when she is at the park.

I want to give my parents some sort of legal rights to act as her carers, so that my partner cannot take her and I'm not sure what the best way to proceed is. I'm looking at getting a solicitor, but have little money to spare at the moment. Any advice would be appreciated.

Some twat responses, especially do you love your DD
The DD is with her loving grandparents, presumably OP can see her when she wants and does so regularly. It's not as if Op sold her to work in a mine.
The exH sounds too irresponsible to have her.
You're doing the right thing OP, ignore the vipers.

• Some twat responses, especially do you love your DD The DD is with her loving grandparents, presumably OP can see her when she wants and does so regularly. It's not as if Op sold her to work in a mine.The exH sounds too irresponsible to have her. You're doing the right thing OP, ignore the vipers.

Genuine question as there doesn't appear to be interest from either f or m to give up on a plan that revolves solely around money and it does come across as dd is an inconvenience.

I have friends who are on 1/3 your salary who are single parents with 2 dc who would cut off their right arm rather than be separated from their 2 year old. Equally I have a friend who did something similar to you after her divorce who couldn't see what was wrong. Her argument was that her dc had a roof over their heads and 3 meals per day. What more did they want.

The op is still married so exH is not a exH yet.

And doing the right thing is fine if the op isn't bothered about seeing her dd grow up. Father will either get custody as op has given up her PRs and use dd to get indefinite leave to remain or will disappear back to Egypt with dd for ever when his visa runs out

OP I can see your predicament biggest you are doing is horribly unfair to both your dd and your ex. If the tables were turned and you were in Egypt (on a visa) and your ex informed you that he sent your d's 150 miles away with his parents how would you feel? I fear that before a judge your actions could be considered controlling and manipulative behaviour towards your ex which may go against you further down the line.

Its not a case of a mother deciding that her parents would be better for a child as the dad is too irresponsible - im sorry but unless there is abuse or true neglect then its completely irrelevent as he IS the father. One parent doesnt just get to override another parent to give their child away to someone else entirely

I am not sure of the legal ins and outs of this, but there must be a better way of handling this incredibly difficult-sounding situation than ship your daughter off without either of her parents. She’s two. Still a baby!

As @oliversmumsarmy says, now is not the time to be fixated on deposits and qualifications. If you have to put things on old for a couple of years til it all settles down and she’s at school, so bit. She won’t care about gardens and swimming lessons this little.

Can you reduce your hours and then your Parents stop over with you a couple of nights a week for childcare? And both you and your ex share the costs of paid - for child care? As you say, an exhausted parent isn’t ideal but peanut butter isn’t poison!

Hope you can get something sorted that doesn’t compromise your daughter’s development or cause any risk of her being taken to Egypt with her dad feeling hard done to and getting his own back.

Man my autocorrect is annoying! On hold. So be it.

*Some twat responses, especially do you love your DD
The DD is with her loving grandparents, presumably OP can see her when she wants and does so regularly. It's not as if Op sold her to work in a mine. *

Parents who love their DD do not drive them 150 miles away to live with grandparents when they have other options. I do think the father sounds like a twat, but the OP seems so ready to give up her child because she doesn't fit with her circumstances. This is not a child being left with grandparents during the day whilst the parents work. This is a situation where the OP is actually prepared to hand over all parental rights to the grandparents.

Op, I would urge you to reconsider this.

A court may decide you have not acted in your dd best interests. I wonder how she is coping no longer seeing her parents and at 2 her understanding will be low. Attachment disorders could be a risk here.

I don't think you have demostrated that your ex is useless, many mums look after dc after being awake all night with a new baby.
I think both of you need to factor in childcare locally.

If this goes to court it will look like neither of you can provide stability for your child.

You're on 38k and say you cant afford childcare??

OP I find your whole post shocking tbh. I cannot imagine sending my child 150 miles away because I was too tight to pay for childcare. Why on earth didn't you just put her in nursery?

I find it horrific too.
Plus how is she going to feel being seperated from her grandparents if you decided you want her back in a year or two.

Your whole attitude is heartless

So far I've what i thought are the basic facts and answered specific questions. Here's my side of this situation and the rationale for my decision.

My daughter is my main concern. If I thought this would harm or negatively impact her in any way I would not have done it. What used to break my heart was coming home during the week to a child who was deperate for some attention, to do some colouring or to go to the park, even to take her to sainsburys. She had no friends to play with and she occupied herself with her toys, tv, or youtube videos. I did as much as I could with her, but it's impossible in the evening to get everything done. Cook a healthy dinner, spend time with my daughter colouring/playing, bath, or reading several stories. I couldn't make up for what was lacking during the day in an evening. I very rarely see friends, my weekends were always about spending time with my daughter. If I did meet friends, it would be somewhere child friendly with my daughter (these friends don't have kids).

My daughter is confident, outgoing and very secure. Even as a baby she would be happy having a cuddle and playing with people she had never met before, taking no notice of me unless she was hungry. Now if she attends softplay, a party, children's activity or play park she's straight in there and doesn't look back. She will talk to adults on the train, say "hello lady" to women walking passed, approach families in the supermarket to talk to the children but will happily talk to their parents too. When we've been to the local coffee shop, she bypasses the queue and asks the barrista preparing the drinks for her "coffee please". After receiving it she told her that she liked her eyebrows. She may be 2.5, but she knows people always appreciate a compliment, especially if she's after something.

Prior to staying with my parents now, she have stayed with them four times, each for about a week. She has only got upset when and asked for mummy when she has been told off. Likewise when she receives a taliking to from me she tells cries and tells me I love my daddy. We talk to my parents regularly on facetimed, and she loves talking to them. If I tell her I'm taking her to see my parents, she gets really excited and will keep asking me are we going to see nanny and grandad. That she will play with the cats, see my aunt and uncle's, and cousin's family (who has recently moved to the same village).

I understood that a man might not be comfortable attending all these stay and play activities as it is mostly women there, but he never once attended the weekly male carers stay and play. He told he wants our daughter to be brought up a muslim (I'm an atheist, but have no problem with this), speak Arabic and mix with the Arabic community. In two and a half years, he's taken her TWICE to see his Egyptian friend and his kids, who are of a similar age. I got some bilingual books so that he could read to her in Arabic, I think he's read them once. I've asked if he wants to invite his friends to our house: he never has.

After mat leave, I used most of my accumulated annual leave to take Fridays (ex could attend central mosque/I could take our daughter to stay and play at the children's centre) or Mondays (rhyme time at the library). I've bent over backwards and made so many allowances for him: his cultural background men aren't SAHD. This wasn't his choice, but what circumstances dictated. But he made no effort to do any housework, DIY, or any admin. Our daughter was always too much of a handful to get anything done. The progress made in a year and a half is that he can do two thirds of the washing up and washing clothes, or I should say grabbing enough washing to fill the machine ie a mixture of whites/ colours, cottons/delicates and putting it on at 40.

In the end I lost all patience with him. He would do nothing at home, we'd argue and when I told him he was nothing more than a glorified babysitter and he should be doing more at home, he would go and get an night shift temp role and insist as he was working so the housework needed to be split so did naff all. Or would meet me near my work to collect my daughter from me late as he had taken a job that the finish time would be too late, and I would be 45 minutes late for work. He would never plan what would work time wise. Then there was spending most of his time on the phone looking at conspiracy theories, and trying to have a debate and convince me the world was flat.

Earlier in the year ex's mum was admitted to hospital with heart problems. He kept telling me how worried he was as it was serious. He made a comment about he thought he would never see his mum again. I told him to book a flight asap, not worry about our daughter, my parents could take her if I couldn't get the time off work. BUT HE WOULD NOT GO. If I hadn't seen my mum in 4 years (never happen though) and thought she was at death's door, I would beg/borrow/steal to get a ticket. Nothing would stop me. He still hasn't been to visit her. He also has a son he hasn't seen for several years, he has told me he couldn't renew his visa to Slovakia sfter they divorced and that's why he hasn't seen him (he met his ex wife when she was studying in Egypt). The ex wife won't let their son speak to ex family. Ex was always saying how he wanted to start seeing his son again. He hadn't been paying his maintenance whilst he wasn't working so had sold some if his land to pay for this. Before we got into this situation I was trying to encourage him to sort this out and try to visit his son.

Most of my debt (it appears to be only mine) is a result of taking the full year maternity leave, paying for ex legal and visa fees. These are on credit cards. I've even borrowed from my parents too. I wanted to take the full year to spend it with my daughter as time with her was more precious than anything else. Also my ex had no desire to look after a baby.

When I went back to work after maternity leave I went back into the same client facing role and during quarterly reporting periods doing up to an 18 hours day. I initially asked to switch to condensed hours over 4 days, this was refused due to business needs. I stood my ground and got my hours changed to early start and finish. I've had to sit in a performance review and be sold "ChildFreeWeek feels that she has done her best in despite her family commitments" as on occasion I had to leave on time and not work until 12am. After persistence I managed to get another role internally, which means can leave on time 99% of the time. If I were to hand in my notice now, I would have to pay back £3k towards professional exam costs.

My daughter has been with my parents nearly a month. She is happy, loved and well taken care of. She draws, makes things and bakes with her nanny. She helps her grandad in the garden with the weeding and picking beans, also feeding the fish. They play bowls, so she visits the club and gets lots of attention. My cousin or aunt and uncle babysit. My cousins 21year old daughter has an itinerary of things to do with my daughter when she moves up there. She has been to playgroups and is mixing with children. Yesterday theg went to ghe local airport to watch the planes. She is getting a routine, which I think is important too.

Even though they are 150 miles away, the intention was that we would visit every week once we had sorted ourselves out. I would take the coach every Friday evening and return Sunday night, once my daughter was I bed. We could get a return fare for £11 each.

Prior to the present situation, I had applied to different housing schemes but I was told I wasn't eligible. I don't want to be evicted and my daughter and i sheltered accommodation if I can prevent it, or the bailiffs at our door for the non payment of debts. I don't believe the state will look after us. I don't won't to be struggling to pay the minimum repayments on the debt and living with my parents. I don't want to be a burden on them on an ongoing basis as I know they worry.

I've taken leave from work as the stress of the situation is taking its toll on me. I need to think clearly. I've been told my probation period has been extended as there is now a problem with my performance, until recently it was nothing to worry about and just a formality as I had changed roles. I have a lot to do at the moment with getting out of the flat and get rid of what we don't need, hiring a van and taking daughter's old furniture and stuff to my sister who is pregnant with her first, winding down an old company from when I was contracting, trying to sell the car/scrap it. The list feels endless.

Anyway after looking at all these replies, I've was wavering with what I'm doing. So yesterday I reached out to the ex-wife in Slovakia, as I found her through Facebook posts from his family going back. I introduced myself and that my ex and I had recently split and if she was prepared to tell me what happened with when they split. Surprisingly she replied. When they divorced the court ordered ex to pay maintenance, awarded ex-wife custody and house, they had a €60k bank loan for the house, which they both had to pay 50/50. After the divorce he couldn't get a visa, so went back Egypt. He cheated on his wife and then started a relationship with that woman. He hasn't paid back any of the loan nor any maintenence since he left Slovakia. I think I was a complete fool and was probably used as a way of getting a visa. Funnily enough the ex wife said ex's late father was a very kind man and they had a good relationship. He told her that she was an intelligent woman and would never be happy with his son, and she shouldn't marry him. As well as giving me the name of his second wife. She was aware that ex had a daughter but hasn't told her son, he had keep asking about getting a brother. I've left the door open and given her my contact details if there's anything she needs, or if she tells her son she has a half sister. She comes to london twice a year and will meet me if there is anything I need her to give me.

I need to do what's in my daughter's best interest. I will see whether I can find a suitable job near my parents. When my ex next contacts me, we can try to sort out visits and arrange mediation. He can call her on facetime, but he hasn't bothered since we he blew up with my Dad as our daughter didn't want to speak to him and hid behind a chair. She was tired and didn't want to talk. I spoke to her today for an hour, but she was sitting at the table colouring for most of it. The plan is to get her on facetime when she's drawing at the table when he calls again. When I asked her does she want to come home with mummy she said no. There have been times when she doesn't want to speak to me neither. I think she is very happy there and doesn't want to come home and stuck at home most of the time. Which is sad.

I don't think I have anything else to add so probably won't be commenting anymore.

Thank you for all your advice.

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I used to change my username to something related to the post I was replying to. In this case the op wanted to know whether to leave her DC with her DM for a few days. My parents were having my DD for a week, hence the username. I have subsequently given up changing my username.

I am concerned with removing my daughter after a year if she is settled.

Reference to £38k was that I don't qualify for childcare assistance and not meant to gloat. I know people earn a lot less and know they get by, but I can't see how.

I'm paying £800 now for a two bed flat which is about £300 below market rate last time I checked. I could possibly get a studio further out for this price. But my travel costs and child care costs would increase. For arguments sake if I were to stay in the same area (which is one of the cheapest in the city) and paid the same as I am now, add utilities and council tax £1k, I would need 10.5 hours childcare per day and that would be £1.4k a month (based on the previous childminder's rates). Bringing me up to £2.4k per month. £100 left. I still haven't accounted for mobile, landlines, train fare £160, clothes etc, other necessaties. When I put in the benefits calculator I didn't qualify. Plus the credit card repayment

Ironically, I knew some migrant workers who had left their family back home. I used to think that they really couldn't care about their kids as they didn't see them for two or three years. I would never leave my kids!

I think a lot of what you take as you failing is just normal. When DD and ds were your DDS age and older the need for attention was constant. It didn't have anything to do with if they had been to nursery or hadn't been entertained enough throughout the day.

Can I ask, forgetting what your DD says about her not wanting to come home. Do you want her home with you.

I had an idea you were just a means to a visa, seen it so many times before and saw the pattern.

You do know if you are seen to be not looking after your DD you could lose her to your stbex and you will spend the best part of the next 20 years paying your ex maintenance and because of him having custody he will apply for indefinite leave to remain or when his visa runs out you might not see your dd again as he will take her back to Egypt and give her to a relative to look after.

If you really love your DD then you need to start rethinking your life's goals and start thinking outside the box.

I think if it was just you and DD on your own in a flat you would be able to organise yourself better without your husband.

Whilst your job sounds high powered and you are on a decent wage you do have to think about how much money per hour you are actually making.

If you are on £38k per annum and working 9-5 then great but if you are expected work 7.30am - midnight then you are heading down to £6-7 per hour after tax which won't sustain anyone.Equally you have to take in how much money you spend just getting yourself to and from work.

Friend gave up her city job to stack shelves because by the time she had factored in childcare for 2 children and the clothes, lunches, travel, childcare and late nights she was expected to do she worked out it was going to cost her money. She then set up her own business once the youngest was at school and hadn't looked back.

I think op you have a very blinkered view of things.

You cannot see any alternative. You say a nursery would cost you £1400 per month but a live in au pair would be a lot cheaper.

You are saving from your salary and complaining it is going to take you months to save up for a new flat but then give away or are moving stuff that could be sold to boost your savings..

You need to start fighting for your DD not throwing your hands up in the air and absolving yourself of all responsibility

OP
All you are doing is making lame excuses for yourself as to why your dd should stay with your parents, and at the same time you're constantly trying to make your ex look like a useless parent.
In all honesty, it is your child's father who appears to be the only parent who really cares for this little girl.

If I thought this would harm or negatively impact her in any way I would not have done it.

can't you see that uprooting her twice and changing her primary carer three times in a year is the most harmful thing possible for your child?

You can afford child care, you have a decent salary and your partner was working too.

It was ridiculous to expect him to work nights and care for her all day. No way was that going to work.

You are currently placing your own desire for qualifications and saving for purchasing a home as a higher priority than the wellbeing of your child. That is terrible.

If the picture you paint of your ex's idea of childcare is accurate then that is neglect. If you collude in it by allowing it to continue then you are also guilty so you were not wrong to remove your dd from him, but sending her to live with grandparents is not fair on anyone.

Everyone needs to start putting the child's needs first. She needs loving attentive care from her parents - not being uprooted to live hours away. When parents need to work - which obviously is necessary - she needs decent childcare, not being neglected. Yes you have to pay for it. Yes it will mean there is very little money and you won't be able to have spare money for savings. That can wait.

Downsize to a 1-bed or studio flat. Your dd doesn't need her own bedroom. The difference in rent, the amount you've been putting into savings plus spending down the amount currently already in savings which you should never have been saving as it was never 'spare' - that's what you have available for childcare. So maybe you can't afford the lovely nursery but work out what you can afford. Borrow from your parents if that's what it takes - it's only for a couple of years, it will be easier once she starts school.

I can see that you are trying to do your best for your child. Is there just two months until you might be able to move nearer your parents? I would set up a no-fly arrangement so he can't take her and keep the passports at your parents but I would be trying to establish yourself as the resident parent. Is there any way that one of your parents or your cousin's daughter could travel back with you on a Sunday to Tuesday so that you have four nights with her? In the medium term you need to be showing that you are planning to move up there even if it means that you need to live with your parents and slow your career somewhat.

You earn 38k and can't support your child? That's just ridiculous, plenty of people manage on a fraction of that

I think, honestly speaking, I would hand in notice and go and stay with DD and your parents. You are effectively giving up your role as resident parent. What job opportunities are there where your parents are? If you re-locate there, then you have extended family support and your DD has appropriate childcare through the week.

Legally speaking, regarding your husband’s contact with his daughter, do you think there is an abduction risk?

I do think you need a lawyer, but I think if you move to be with DD, then it is clear cut, that you are the resident parent and the only issue is his contact (which is up to him to pursue legally).

If he gets a day time job and can organise childcare, at the moment, he could very easily take you to court for residency and win.

I think the OP is short sighted in what she wants to achieve. I would be selling anything and everything or settling for a much smaller place to live with DD now not in 2 months time.

That should be the number one priority.

Otherwise OP you will be buying a house for your ex to live in with your DD whilst working full time and looking forward to a life time of renting.

You need to get your DD back and start actually doing some parenting and not looking at what the cheapest option is because in the end it is going to cost you a Hell of a lot more

Sometimes we have to do short term things for long term gain.

If you will be sorted in a few months then you might aswell carry on

But by going for a smaller flat or selling some furniture, clothes anything she has it could be sorted now

I think the courts would take very seriously an application from your ex to be resident parent. He was essentially her main cater and your parsnts have zero rights here. On top of that you are not even caring for your child now so wouldn’t have much to stand on. You would also likely be made pay maintenance.

This is the position nearly every father with an uncooperative ex wife finds themselves in. Just the roles are reversed for you.