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Original poster

Changing mind about agreed holiday with a child arrangements order in place

67 replies

worriedandstressedAAA · 21/05/2018 23:30

My ex and I have a childcare arrangements order in place which specifies that my ex gets X amount of holidays per year (2 weeks in the summer, 1 week at Christmas and half of the half terms) so we have to agree dates. The order also says that my ex is supposed to give me certain information about any foreign travel, e.g. flight time, where DCs are staying etc) well in advance.

So, my ex asked a few months ago if he could take DCs, 10 and 8, to see his dad who lives abroad (in Europe). I agreed but now have good reasons why I don't want DCs to go including that my ex's dad slags both me and my DH off and last time they saw him it took a week for them to settle.

Question is, can I now withdraw consent to them going abroad? I don't mind my ex having them half the holiday but don't want them to leave the country. As I said, we have a child arrangements order in place and a residence/live with order in my favour.

OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 22/05/2018 07:29

You can, but It's pretty poor behaviour to agree and then withdraw consent, late in the day so he can't get an order. Easy to see that was a deliberate ploy,

What changed your mind?

GnotherGnu · 22/05/2018 07:36

It looks as if the order doesn't prevent your ex taking them abroad, just says he has to let you know the arrangements. If so, you would be breaching the order if you withdraw consent now.

LaurieFairyCake · 22/05/2018 07:40

I hope you’ve got better reasons than that, because those are pants Grin

The kids are safe, you have no issues with them being with their dad - so he gets to decide on his time.

NiceViper · 22/05/2018 07:45

The reasons you give don't sound anywhere near sufficient to overturn a contact order, and yes on his time your DH gets to choose what they do, including travel abroad within the parameters of the order.

please don't be That Parent who attempts to sabotage DC's relationship with NRP. You sound hideously close to it, without realising it

Collaborate · 22/05/2018 08:37

He'll take you to court and win, and in all likelihood get an order for costs. It's implicit in the order (if not explicitly stated) that he can take the children abroad.

Original poster
worriedandstressedAAA · 22/05/2018 09:54

Not asking for whether or not the decision is right/fair, just what legal consequences there would be if I say they cannot go. There are other good reasons why they shouldn't go which I don't have time to get into here. Just wanted a quick legal answer.

OP posts:
Original poster
worriedandstressedAAA · 22/05/2018 09:57

To give a flavour, one of the DCs is currently having serious behavioural/mental health issues.

OP posts:
fontofnoknowledge · 22/05/2018 10:40

I agreed but now have good reasons why I don't want DCs to go including that my ex's dad slags both me and my DH off and last time they saw him it took a week for them to settle.

This statement has absolutely nothing to do with your children and everything to do with your feelings towards your ex fil. Sorry but that is using your children as pawns in adult discussions/arguments.
There is a CAO that requires your ex to provide details of where your children's father is taking the children on holiday. It is not an order that allows you to decide if he is allowed to take them. That issue has been clearly set out in the order. (We have the same order for my husbands children). As long as he is taking them in the times specified in the order (or other times by mutual agreement) and he has fulfilled the requirement to tell you where/when/flight details. Then you would be in clear breach to change anything. The child arrangements order does not give you any rights of veto regarding where he chooses to go on holiday.

You are in the wrong and would more than likely have to pay the costs of any further hearing on the matter. Morally it also stinks. The children have a holiday arranged with their father. MH difficulties of not, their father has been deemed a competent parent or would not of been granted unsupervised access. As such, he is an equal parent under the law of parental responsibility and should be allowed to be equally responsible for a sick child. Caring for unwell children is not the sole, legal domain of the mother.

prh47bridge · 22/05/2018 11:06

Just wanted a quick legal answer

See Collaborate's answer.

GnotherGnu · 22/05/2018 16:06

If there are other good reasons for varying the order, get legal advice on whether you can apply to the court for that purpose.

If you prevent your child going, your ex could take you back to court to enforce the order and/or vary it to make it more difficult for you to obstruct this; or possibly even to change the residency order.

Original poster
worriedandstressedAAA · 22/05/2018 18:17

Sorry but you are all talking nonsense and know sweet FA about my situation!

It would be helpful if you actually read what I said in my OP. The order does not specify in details WHICH days etc but leaves it for the parties to agree. I have checked with my lawyer and it seems that, legally, I should be ok if I withdraw consent. I have a "live with" order so the kids live with my and my ex does need be permission to take them out of the country. If the order was worded differently, e.g. joint residence, then this would not be the case.

You lot are actually quite dangerous with rubbish you spout!

OP posts:
donajimena · 22/05/2018 18:21

So if you knew the answer why did you post?

Ilovewheelychairs · 22/05/2018 18:26

The order also says that my ex is supposed to give me certain information about any foreign travel, e.g. flight time, where DCs are staying etc) well in advance.

This is what you said in your OP. This implies that in the order, your ex is allowed to take the children out of the country as long as he lets you know the plans in advance. It does not state that he needs your permission to do so!

People have read the OP. You were unclear.

Collaborate · 22/05/2018 18:28

You've already agreed the dates. You'll lose. The judge will see right through that excuse.

prh47bridge · 22/05/2018 19:13

You may not like the legal advice Collaborate is giving but it is correct. If your lawyer says otherwise I would respectfully disagree.

MrsBertBibby · 22/05/2018 19:30

You have not come up with any event that changed your mind, so I assume there wasn't one.

You are playing a dangerous game. If the dad loses his trip, he can ask to Court to stick you with the bill for that. As well as his costs.

GnotherGnu · 22/05/2018 20:37

You can’t blame people who take the trouble to respond to your question if you choose not to give salient facts.

And I agree with others, if you withdraw permission and your ex decides to take it back to court, no judge is going to be impressed with you reneging on an agreed arrangement.

C0untDucku1a · 22/05/2018 20:42

But you have agreed??? So you would be in breach of the court order.

titchy · 22/05/2018 22:37

Why are you asking here, then ignoring the 4 solicitors who have given you advice? Did you want some 'Aww hun your bubba your rules' type advice?

PatriciaHolm · 22/05/2018 22:44

I suspect OP isn't aware that at least 4 of the respondents here are actually lawyers...

Original poster
worriedandstressedAAA · 22/05/2018 23:14

Er, I am a lawyer too although this isn't my field. The advice is wrong. He needs my permission to take them out of the country.

OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 22/05/2018 23:17

So if you know the law, why are you asking on here?

prh47bridge · 22/05/2018 23:28

You say this isn't your field yet you confidently say that the advice of lawyers who work in this field is wrong. And it does raise the question of why you came on here for advice in the first place if you are so certain you are right that you won't listen to any advice that disagrees.

Yes, he needs your consent to take your children out of the country. However, he is not committing an offence if that consent is unreasonably withheld. From the information you have posted it is implicit in the order that he can take the children abroad. Even without that, you gave your consent. You now wish to change your mind on grounds that no judge in the family courts would accept as reasonable. If this ended up in court you would lose and may well have to pay his costs as well.

JustSeeingHowManyCharactersWeC · 23/05/2018 07:47

What do your children want to do? Maybe ask them?

Caselgarcia · 23/05/2018 07:57

In your title you say you have agreed for them to go but have changed your mind. What do the children want?

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