Ex's partner wants PR

[MycatsaPirate]

My DP has had very little contact with his DD over the last two years. All was fine prior to his ex moving in with her new partner (an hour away from us but used to live round the corner) but contact dwindled to nothing with endless excuses about DD being busy with other things and never being in when he called the house. She is now 14.

His ex died earlier this year. Prior to the funeral dp spoke to the partner of his ex and said they needed to get together to discuss DD's future. Dp tried to call twice but both times the partner put the phone down on him. Dp then got a letter inviting him to mediation with the partner.

Partner had one meeting with mediator and DP has had one meeting. This was not a joint mediation session. The mediator has asked if dp would give the partner PR for DD. Dp has said no. He has made it clear that he is not wholly against DD remaining where she is as she is in important school years but he is still her dad and still wants to be part of her life. He just wants regular contact, either in person or by phone with his DD and wants the partner to communicate with him about DD and what is going on in her life.

If the partner went to court to get PR would he likely get it? DP is just fuming because the partner won't talk to him about DD at all. He is an unrelated male living with a 14 year old girl and seems to think he can just shut her dad out completely. Dp was very open to letting DD stay where she is but now he feels like he can't trust the partner to actually stay in touch and keep to any agreements made.

A joint mediation session was meant to happen this week. The partner can't make either date offered (and cancelled at the last minute). Dp is going in for surgery this week and won't be able to drive for four weeks and must rest for the first two so everything is just dragging on.

Words of wisdom or just words of comfort needed.

I did try and post a few minutes ago, but it seems not to have made the thread.

Can some people please remember this is Legal, not AIBU. People tend to post here, as OP has, to deal with a specific legal problem. If you want to discourage people seeking help on this forum then go ahead with your personal attacks - which in my opinion are made from a position of ignorance, and from the safety of your keyboard anonymity. You are out of order coming on Legal and making personal criticisms such as I've seen on this thread. Things aren't always as black and white as you may think, and having a little knowledge of the family court system can be a dangerous thing.

the DD's mother would probably have either respected him doing the right thing, or agreed it's what was needed for the child's best interests, to go through the proper channels

Talk about wishful thinking. She had decided to block contact and do everything she could to discourage her daughter from contact because the father was not, in her view, sufficiently supportive when she got a cancer diagnosis. Do you really think she would have rolled over and said, "that's all right then" if he now started legal proceedings? Deluded.

However, I agree with Collaborate that this has turned into AIBU rather than legal advice. I am happy to offer legal advice to the OP but will not be engaging in any further discussion about the rights and wrongs of this case.

thank you for the supportive messages. To those still attacking my dp, think what taking a dying woman through court would have done to the family.

Yes his DD claimed to have been left out of holidays but we have asked her twice to come. First time she said yes then her mum booked her onto a PGL holiday the same dates. The second time she didn't respond. Our holidays are camping a few miles from home with other families on a site with a pool. We can't afford to go anywhere else.

We offered to take her to a waterpark for her birthday this year which she was really excited about. Then she was suddenly busy every weekend and couldn't come.

The only day out she hasn't come on and wasn't invited to was a day trip to London. She has been to London many times, with her mum and dad, her mum, on day trips with school and with an activity. My DD's had never been. I saved for months to buy cheap train tickets and tickets for the London Eye. Her mum changed contact days 2 days before we were meant to have her, meaning we lost out on the day out or didn't have DSD. There was no reason to change the dates and I suspect DD2 had been chatting about it at the activity.

DD2 no longer goes to the activity, hasn't for a month to six weeks now. Dp still goes to try and see his DD but she is never available. She has always been sent off by her aunt (who runs it) on an errand or to do something away from the main place. Difficult but what can he do?

Contact dwindled when DD moved in July. We saw her in the September for a few days and then again in the December for a few days. That was the last time she stayed with us and her mum was diagnosed very shortly after.

I am fed up justifying everything, I asked what the next steps should be legally. He has to attempt mediation before going through Court. Someone asked what he wanted SS to do. Well he wanted to know if they had cause for concern. I also note that many people refer to him as stepfather. Which is ironic as if I referred to myself as her stepmum I'd be slated for it as I am not married to her dad yet and despite living together for 5.5 years, I don't really see myself as her stepmum. Yet the partner, who has only lived with her for two years and wasn't married to her mum is her stepdad?

The double standards on here never cease to amaze me.

To those still attacking my dp, think what taking a dying woman through court would have done to the family

you said you didn't know she was dying, so how can you now say that was a reason you didn't do it?

And what it would have done was told that child that her father wanted her. You could try telling her that now, by going to get her. She only has one parent left, why is he doing nothing?

We didn't know she was terminally ill until a week or so before but we knew she was very ill. She was spending weeks at a time having hospice care. Again, tell me how that would have looked to his DD, her dad causing her mum stress at a time when she was high on morphine and barely with it half the time.

I also don't think just turning up and 'getting her' would do anyone any good. A 14 year old being told she's being brought back here, despite what she wants, having to change schools and GCSE courses and leave her new friends because .... well because why?

Dp want's communication and contact. That's all. Yes, he'd love her to live here but only if that's what she wants. He wants her life to be settled because fuck knows it's been shit for the last couple of years, she's had a huge move, then a mum spending half her time in hospital and then a hospice and then dying. She has continuity where she is and all dp wants is to be part of her life. That's all he has ever wanted. All he wants is the chance to spend some time with her and be her dad.

There is nothing to be gained from pissing off a grieving, hormonal 14 year old girl by pulling her away from her life. DP just wants a stamped document which forces the partner to communicate with him, to keep him up to date with what she is doing, if there are any problems and help to encourage her to rebuild a relationship with her dad.

It sounds like her step dad was there for her more than her father, sorry if that sounds blunt.
Wild horses wouldn't keep my dh from his kids whatever happened between the two of us, no caring parent would.
Sorry

PR does not take any legal rights away from the biological parent and it's ridiculous to keep saying 'sign his daughter over' like she is property.
You should be applying to court for a child arrangements order, where a judge decides what is in the best interests of the child based on all the evidence given. If the judge rules that she should continue living with her step-dad (which they most likely will), he will automatically get PR for her, which is the best thing in this circumstance. The order will also detail where and when she is to have contact with you, if at all. Remember at 14 the judge will take your partners daughter's wishes into account.

Allowing a step parent to have PR is a sensible decision and shows you have the emotional maturity and to accept and deal with another person raising your child. Anyone who refuses to grant PR to a step parent, who has been a part of their child's life and helped raised them, is possessive and immature.

And the reason he gets referred to as 'stepdad' and you are not 'stepmum' is because your partners daughter has lived with her, helped to feed and clothe her, raised her and taken on the role of the dad who wasn't there. I'm afraid you haven't earned that title.

My dd has stopped seeing her father because she has seen what he is.

She ignores all phone calls, txt messages, emails. If he phoned me I would tell him she is busy/elsewhere.

All your posts say what your dp wants. Has anyone tried to find out what his dd wants? Asked her?

I find turning up to her activity creepy.

If I died I would absolutely expect dd to want to stay with dp. He doesn't have PR and would need to request it. The fact that this man has makes me think that he has taken legal advice. And I suspect that the dd has been very much on social services radar and they haven't found anything to be concerned about. In fact they might have suggested he asks for PR.

If I were your dp I would write dd a letter stating that he loves her very much. That he understands that she loves her step dad very much and that she doesn't have to chose. That he is happy to give the permission for the PR and that he hopes it gives her some security. And that he can always contact him. And that he will continue to support her stepfather financially. I would send a letter once a month saying what he has been up to. I would send Christmas cards and vouchers instead of a present. Same at her birthday.

I would let her grieve for her mum and make a decision herself as to whether she wants a relationship with him.

@ducknose @stitchglitched you clearly have experience regarding a particular set of circumstances. Not every set of circumstances is like yours and yes, there are currently circumstances where going to court is absolutely an option but is either not affordable or the patent in question does it want to put the children through any more heartache, so they back off. Your experience is not the only experience.

OP - try not to engage with those posters who are being less than helpful. I suspect they are quite happy to see the effect their posts are having, though why they don’t confine themselves to AIBU I just don’t know. You have no need to justify yourself to anyone on this board.

@gingergenius with respect, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to my personal experiences at work and also my own family life. Please don't make assumptions.
I disagree with you but I agree with most posters here. You don't need to find reasons to explain why I don't agree with your perspective here.

I can't help feeling that if we could hear the late mothers version of events it would all make a lot more sense. Sounds to me that stepdad and family are carrying out the dead woman's wishes probably with the child's best interests protected. If I die my husband (elder children's stepdad) and family will do exactly the same tbh

@ducknose and you don’t know mine so whilst you are entitled to disagree, you also need not make assumptions. I think that’s fair, don’t you?

@gingergenius I'm confused, are you the OP?

No I’m not. We just have differing views. Let’s agree to disagree shall we?

@gingergenius that's fine by me, I was confused as I've never made assumptions about you, I'm responding to OP in the context of her posts.
Anyway, she's updated saying that DP does not want his DD living in their family home, does not want to play an active role in her life, and in fact all he has ever wanted is a more distant role with a bit of communication here and there (which seems more about his ego than actual parenting). The fact of the matter is, the extent of his enquiries has manifested in his wife asking a question on a parenting forum. It's relatively cheap to self-represent in court, it's very cheap and straightforward to obtain a court order. More importantly, it's costs nothing to look at the gov website which would answer his question, it costs nothing to have an appointment with citizen's advice.
Therefore my firm opinion still stands.

@ducknose yes you are right. All of those things are possible. From personal experience I know that just because they are possible it doesn’t automatically follow that a person feels capable of doing them, for all sorts of reasons.

Anyway I don’t wish to derail a thread with this so I hope the OP finds the answers she seeks.

OP, just disengage with those slagging off your dp. They're either projecting or simply misandristic.... if your dp had dragged his ex through court when she had cancer (terminal or not), guaranteed they'd be cursing him for that too - you can't win with some people.

Listen to the likes of bridge and collaborate. Good luck to you. It sounds like a horrid situation for you all

Just wanted to update on this.

So DP and the BF have been to mediation and now DP rings the BF every Friday evening and they have a talk about the DD and how things are.

DD is getting counselling and also had an offer to attend mediation on her own to see if they can work through things and build a relationship with her dad.

BF has given us a list of presents DD wants for Xmas which is a massive improvement on previous years when all the present requests were handed round her mum's side of the family and we were left guessing what to buy. So we bought it all and some additional bits.

DD has been talking to my oldest DD via snapchat/WhatsApp or whatever and still have a good relationship.

We have invited his DD and her stepdad to us for Christmas but BF declined as it's a tough one for them both this year. The offer stands if they want to change their minds.

We have bought two snowglobes, one for BF and one for DD and we will be putting photos in them, one of the three of them (DD her mum and stepdad) and one of DD and her mum in hers and one of mum and BF in the BF's one. We hope they accept these with the love they are being made with.

Things are moving slowly but positively. A few months ago I wouldn't have thought this outcome would be possible but fingers crossed that they continue this way and the relationship between everyone improves over the coming months.

That sounds positive OP. Is BF the same person as stepdad?

That sounds positive although sd is still refusing to see her dad I take it?

Don't do the snow globes.

The one for dd will look like a pointed reminder - your step dad and your dad.

The partner is an adult and no relation and you shouldn't be making memory type objects for him.

I'm glad about the rest.

Good luck @MycatsaPirate.

CAFCASS recommended to DP and his ex that family photos were exchanged between households. We have pictures of ex's family in the DSC rooms at ours and they have pictures of us at the ex's. The snow globes sound like a similar project and a lovely thought.

I was initially going to post that you don't need to have exhausted mediation before going to court. DP's ex refused to attend mediation so he made an immediate court application. However, it sounds like it's working for you.

No they really don't.

Photos of you given to the other family, great.

Photos of you, your dead partner and then you, your dead partner and your step daughter? From the ex partner with whom you have had a tricky relationship and the dead partner pretty much detested?

I think it's in very poor taste.