Ex's partner wants PR

[MycatsaPirate]

My DP has had very little contact with his DD over the last two years. All was fine prior to his ex moving in with her new partner (an hour away from us but used to live round the corner) but contact dwindled to nothing with endless excuses about DD being busy with other things and never being in when he called the house. She is now 14.

His ex died earlier this year. Prior to the funeral dp spoke to the partner of his ex and said they needed to get together to discuss DD's future. Dp tried to call twice but both times the partner put the phone down on him. Dp then got a letter inviting him to mediation with the partner.

Partner had one meeting with mediator and DP has had one meeting. This was not a joint mediation session. The mediator has asked if dp would give the partner PR for DD. Dp has said no. He has made it clear that he is not wholly against DD remaining where she is as she is in important school years but he is still her dad and still wants to be part of her life. He just wants regular contact, either in person or by phone with his DD and wants the partner to communicate with him about DD and what is going on in her life.

If the partner went to court to get PR would he likely get it? DP is just fuming because the partner won't talk to him about DD at all. He is an unrelated male living with a 14 year old girl and seems to think he can just shut her dad out completely. Dp was very open to letting DD stay where she is but now he feels like he can't trust the partner to actually stay in touch and keep to any agreements made.

A joint mediation session was meant to happen this week. The partner can't make either date offered (and cancelled at the last minute). Dp is going in for surgery this week and won't be able to drive for four weeks and must rest for the first two so everything is just dragging on.

Words of wisdom or just words of comfort needed.

DP hasn't bothered

So you think he should have gone down the legal route when his ex had cancer? I'm sorry but this kind of attack on the OP and her partner is ridiculous. He appears to be trying his best to do the right thing for his daughter in the face of a concerted campaign of parental alienation by his ex and her partner.

My heart goes out to his daughter, I hope she's getting all the support in the world from her loved ones

So does mine. Unfortunately the ex's partner is doing everything he can to cut her off from her loved ones.

I don’t get why he won’t give his dd’s stepdad PR? He’ll still have PR for his daughter but it will mean that the man who is looking after his daughter can make sure she receives medical treatment and can make decisions. Surely her stepdad having PR is in her best interests whether he likes the current arrangement or not?

I think he should sign the papers for PR as it doesnt effect his rights at all and as a biological parent if he disagreed with a decision he could probably over rule it. His reasons for not giving PR would probably not be looked well on if it went to court particularly as he has not had much contact with his daughter and she for whatever reason doesn’t want contact with him.

Contact with his daughter is a different matter and as she’s 14 she will be able to say what she wants. Giving the stepdad PR might make him seem less of a threat and soften feelings towards him. If he can get the stepdad on side he might have more of a chance of his daughter being persuaded to see him and then hopefully proving to her that it’s worth having a relationship with him.

I hear your frustration. I would like to point out that the question about maintenance was not the first question you were asked, in fact I asked what your stepdaughter wanted to happen, but sadly you can't answer as you've had no contact with her.

From your side, it does sound like your partner has tried lots of avenues to try to regain contact with his daughter. I would suggest he goes back to the mediation people and asks what the next steps are, given that the stepfather has not been able to make the mediation appointment. He also needs to go to a solicitor, as it seems unlikely that any further progress will be made without some legal help.

I would suggest both of you really thinking hard about what you hope to gain from this process. It does sound a bit like your partner wants some control over his daughter's life, whilst still allowing another man to do the job of parent. I know this is not your perspective, but it is what comes over I'm afraid.

Please stop referring to 'an unrelated male', it is beyond insulting. Either you felt that the step-father was a threat, in which case why on earth did you not do anything about it earlier, or you are just now using this as a random insult to try and make yourself feel better. Trying to get the NSPCC or Social Services to take action when there is no evidence of any harm (unless you have missed something out), is not a great way to get the people you are reporting to engage positively.

Do you want your stepdaughter to live with you? If not, then the person that she lives with needs to have PR for reasons already explained. It sounds like your partner is just withholding his consent in order to punish the stepfather and daughter for perceived injustice in the past.

You can't force a teenager to want to spend time with you all. You can do your best to make amends and apologise for the act of trying to get your stepdaughter (and any other children in their household) into care. Before you say that wasn't what you wanted, what else did you think would happen if NSPCC / Children's Services had acted on your 'concerns'?

Try and reflect on what is the best outcome for everyone concerned. You can't undo the actions of the late ex wife or your partner's past inactions. All you can do is work for the best possible solution, which might well mean waiting for the mediation to reach a conclusion, lengthy though this may be.

There is no need for PR.

The 14 year old does not need PR for her step father in order to get medical treatment. She will get it anyway if it is her best interests and she agrees and any doctors will talk it through with her properly. She is Gillick competent. In a couple of years she will be totally competent to make her own choices.

PR will only be needed for the odd bureaucratic thing which the step father will be able to sign for her instead of her father without any involvement of her father. This might be convenient for the step father but not the father. What has the step father put on the table in this mediation?

If the step father wants to give her loads of money and leave everything to her in his Will, there is nothing to stop him.

OP, you need to find a good solicitor now, and get your ducks in a row instead of hanging on at each stage.

Perception is a strange beast. So many people who read this thread seem to have jumped to the conclusion of deadbeat dad in a heartbeat. Personally, it was suspicions of parental alienation that came foremost to my mind. It also seems from what's been written that there is good reason to doubt knowing honestly what the daughter really wants. Almost everything in that regard has been communicated 3rd hand via the eX and/or her partner. My primary concern would be to understand how happy she is to remain with stepdad and what sort of relationship she really wants with natural father. If there has been an element of parental alienation that may require more work than just a face-to-face chat or two. I also question the stepfather's commitment if he can't even bother attending the arranged mediation sessions.

OP, before agreeing to anything I think your partner needs to do everything he can to understand his daughter's true wishes and that she really is in a safe and nurturing situation.

@prh47bridge personally I find OP's blaming the situation on the girl's mother/speaking ill of a dead woman to be low. Using the cancer as an excuse 'I didn't want to drag a woman with cancer through court' for the man to rest on his laurels, I.e, not bothering is particularly low.
DD does not seem very interested in her father anymore, this is what happens in the latter years of childhood where a parent has consistently taken a back seat. It isn't possible to alienate a loving parent, but it can happen the other way around when a child wises up to the fact that a 'non relative' does a better job than a biological parent.

It isn't possible to alienate a loving parent

Absolute nonsense.

OP has been posting about the issue of no contact for a long time, before the mother was known to be terminal. Her partner's so called laid back nature may have come across to his daughter that he isn't bothered. The mother has now sadly been dead for a few months and he still hasn't gone to court. He doesn't want this 'unrelated male' to have PR but is content for his daughter to remain living with him. At what point does not wanting to rock the boat become not having done enough? I'd say OP's partner passed that point quite a while ago.

He could have sorted out contact before the mother ever became ill.
He chose not to.

As I understand it, one of the first questions re contact order that would be asked is why did he leave it so long before pursing contact. It seems that he has tried by texting and turning up, but he needs to push for a court order. He may have left it too late. I saw a post that said that you wrote about this last year - why hasn't he done anything since. Whilst it seems mean, it is not an excuse to use exs illness as a reason. If he wanted a relationship with his daughter, he needs to fight for it.

Ducknose - the law would not see it as a reasonable excuse to rest on his laurels

Too much procrastination.

He really needs to speak to a lawyer to get advice on this and also to show how serious he is about repairing his relationship with his daughter.

Using the cancer as an excuse 'I didn't want to drag a woman with cancer through court' for the man to rest on his laurels, I.e, not bothering is particularly low

If he had dragged a woman with cancer through court many would have condemned him for it and said how low it was for him to put a dying woman through the stress of a court case. I'm sorry, it is not "particularly low".

It isn't possible to alienate a loving parent

Complete rubbish. It is generally very difficult for children when parents separate. The parent with care may be able to alienate the children from the other parent regardless of how loving that parent is. Happens all the time.

The lack of contact has been going on since before the mother was sick though and there were other issues too such as the DD feeling left out of holidays, days out etc and feeling he put OP's kids first. He should have acted alot sooner. It has got to this point because OP's partner has let it.

The lack of contact has been going on since before the mother was sick though

Wrong. It hasn't. According to the DP's last thread about this situation contact stopped 2 years ago, apparently because the ex thought that he had not been supportive enough when she got her cancer diagnosis. The OP has said that again on this thread. I hardly think the ex stopped contact because she thought he would not be supportive enough over a cancer diagnosis she had not yet received.

There is some truth in saying that it has got to this point because the OP's partner has allowed it to but the only alternative would have been to take a dying mother to court, which would have earned him huge condemnation (quite possibly from some of the same people who are now condemning him for not doing so).

I find it really interesting how so many people go for 'if he really had a problem with it he should have done more to stop it' argument.

Would you say that to the victim of a crime?

there were other issues too such as the DD feeling left out of holidays, days out etc and feeling he put OP's kids first

Where does the OP say that? As far as I can see she hasn't said that at all.

Your partner is seriously ok with his child living with an unrelated man who has memory loss and doesn't remember where she is? And who won't allow contact with any relatives? Because of her school?

Get in the car, go and collect her and her things, and move her into your house. Today. I'm stunned that this is even in question. What kind of parent would not do this?

OP has had several threads about the lack of contact which have some of those details in, including the fact that contact dwindled when the DSD moved before the mother was ill. Yes OP's DP turns up every week to his child's activity, but because he is taking OP's daughter to it which could also be hurtful to his child. There are many things that he could have done differently and his DSD has what could be considered legitimate grievances. But it's easier to pin all the blame on the dead mother and the man who is supporting her through that loss.

@ducknose you don’t seem to have much experience if parental alienation! It can and does happen to nrp who had a previously strong and living relationship with their children and who have tried everything they can to continue a relationship. Your comments are naive at best and shamefully Ill-informed at worst.

Is it possible to claim to be the victim of parental alienation and that you couldn't have possibly tried any harder, when you've never made a single application to court?

@stitchglitched I completely agree.
@gingergenius I'm not naive, I have experience in the family courts. I just don't agree with you, unless the resident parent takes the child abroad.

@prh47bridge you don't need 'to be dragged through the courts' in the first place, the DD's mother would probably have either respected him doing the right thing, or agreed it's what was needed for the child's best interests, to go through the proper channels. It's shame he didn't do it much earlier on.

I remember your earlier posts from after the terminal diagnosis. I'm so sorry it has not improved. I do think now it's time to get full legal advice about getting proper contact reinstated and personally I would not be granting PR. In this situation your DSD's step dad should be thinking of the best interests of the child (at 14 she still is) and insisting it's in her own best interests to be spending time with her Dad as well. I don't think any court could argue that deciding not to press matters whilst her mother was dying was being negligent, again this was acting in the best interests of the child, and it sounds like he was making a good attempt before the illness (which was relatively sudden if I remember correctly). I'm so sorry for you all, but especially for your DSD who has been denied the love and support of her father.