AIBU to think I can fight this? Mumsnetters I need your help!

[FigureItOutNow]

Please be gentle with me - I'm very stressed over this!
Sorry it'll be a long post but bear with me.

Last week my divorce from a very abusive husband was finalised. I'm late 20s with 3kids under 7 from this man. As part of the abuse he completely isolated me from my family.
Anyway my younger sister has some friends in a nearby big city - she said if I could find a sitter she'd come to this city and we could go out with some of her friends to celebrate (I have no friends at the moment). My neighbours 20year old daughter offered to babysit overnight as long as I was back by 9 as she had work later that day.

On the night out I drove up to city with intention that if I wasn't in a fit state to drive back home by 8am next morning I would get a taxi back home and then come back with my kids on the train ( they love trains) to pick up my car so I parked it somewhere where I knew I wouldn't be charged if I had to leave it at 8am.

On night out I managed to drink far more than I could handle (easy as I haven't drank in years due to abusive ex being controlling). I started feeling really sick at about midnight (2hours into the night) and somehow got split from my sister and her friends. I was feeling really crap and decided to go sleep in my car. I messaged my sister and told her where I was and she said that's fine they'll get me from the car on the way back to her friends.

I was fast asleep in passenger siding my car but alarm kept going off and someone called the police. They came at about 3am and it took them about 5min to wake me up as I was so gone. Anyway they started trying to say that I was drink driving and I said how could I be drink driving if I'm fast asleep in the passenger side? Lots of yeah but you were planning to weren't you/stop lying/ tell the truth type of statements. I was so upset at this point called my sister and had her confirm our plans, even showed them our messages with our plans to go back to her friends.
There were 4 police officers at this point and I could hear discussing if they could charge me with drink driving to which one of them said no but they could charge with being drunk and in charge of a vehicle. They came and told me that they were arresting me for this charge. They asked me to breathalyser but I refused as I was paranoid they were trying to frame me for drink driving (I know I know but I was really drunk and this was a stupid thought process) and I asked them so many times why they wanted to breathalyser me when I had openly admitted that I was drunk and NO INTENTION at all of driving but was waiting on my sister and her friends.

Anyway they arrested me - so so so distressing for me as I've been driving since I was 18 never had a parking/speeding/any ticket whatsoever as I'm one of those annoying people that follows the law to T as I'm terrified of getting arrested (oh the irony).

In the end I spent the night and most of the day in cells, they dropped all charges except the one of failure to cooperate by refusing to breathalyser so please mumsnetters help me figure out if I can fight this. I'm a lone parent and I work in the healthcare industry so could potentially lose my job over this as my solicitor said it would come up as a criminal record in all my pre-work checks!!!

I don't understand why the officer never said it was a criminal offence to refuse the breathalyser, when he asked me to do it and I said I didn't understand why he was asking me to do it he said that he was asking me to do it and that was all the reason he was giving

OP, you need another solicitor who can support you. You know what your intentions were, despite how it might look to some people who refuse to be,I've that genuine mistakes can be made and your solicitor should be on the same page.

Some of the responses on here are laughable - what a pack of self righteous arseholes, the OP explains the situation and here she is being berated because she didn't realise sleeping in her car having had a drink was an offence. I wonder how many people on here have actually made a mistake before? Seemingly mistakes are not allowed.

You are guilty of being in charge of a vehicle whilst over the drink-drive limit. You are guilty of refusing a breathalyser test.

These are facts. You cannot argue them, because you admit to them. You need to take your punishment. Get a solicitor and they will argue for a light a punishment as possible.

Remember, ignorance of the law is not a defence! Bad or inaccurate advice from the police is not a defence either. Citizens have an obligation to obey the law, even if they are unaware of it. It would be an impossibility for someone to know every law in existance, but that does not mean they are excused from obeying them.

I agree that someone sleeping off the booze in their car should not be treated as being the same thing as someone drink-driving, but as the law stands, they pretty much are.

I think I've come across wrongly - I'm not trying to get out of the charge but trying to minimise the impact. As in I thought I'll plead guilty and the criminal record will mean I'll lose my job, etc
Have come on here and realised that the criminal record is possibly the least of my worries. I'm not trying to say I didn't do anything wrong - I spoke to my solicitor when sober for about 10min before going in front of the judge and he said that I should have taken the test and my best bet was to plead guilty. I agreed with him and came home but have now got stressed over the possible implications and decided to post on here to see what others thought I could do to avoid a criminal record (that I thought was the punishment for this) only to realise that a criminal record is not the punishment but the real punishment is I'm possibly going to be banned and/or face a fine and/or penalty points on my licence.

I never said I want to plead not guilty that was something suggested by posters - I personally don't know how I can plead not guilty to this when I clearly declined the test and yes they have audio of me stating that I was confused by the process and couldn't understand why I was being asked to breathalyser when I hadn't been driving and had no intention whatsoever of driving (it's in the paperwork given to my solicitor)

margret I never even mentioned my abusive ex to the police. The reason why I was out never ever came up- I'm not here for a sympathy vote. I mentioned that in my OP as I thought people might wonder why I was out with my younger sister and her friends and I didn't want to drip feed

Sounds to the outsider that they are clutching at straws but they are going to go for it anyway as nothing else would stick. You either change your solicitor and fight it or accept that things aren't what they used to be (lost count of the number of times I kipped in the car with the heater on and the doors locked) and accept the consequences. As others have said, go and see hr and explain the circumstances, show them the texts and apologise for your naivety. There is nothing wrong with sending the judge a letter and including the texts. It can't be any worse.

Ok...take a deep breath and try to accept that what's done is done. Just for reference, I very stupidly decided to move my car to a better parking spot outside my house back when I was a LOT younger and stupider. I'd drunk several glasses of wine during the course of the evening. Anyway in the process of reverse parking I hit a neighbours parked car and long story short was prosecuted for drink driving. I was absolutely mortified and hated myself for months after that and even moved to another town...and quit my job as was so ashamed. The trouble is though that all that self hate and worrying didn't help one bit...tgere was no turning back the clock. What happened, happened and I learned to accept it as a very, very valuable lesson. Just to reassure you that I obviously declared this incident on every job application in the years since and I have been employed in various roles with no problem. People are more understanding than you may think. My one bit of advice is to tell the whole truth no matter what and I seriously think you should consult with a different solicitor. But please know from someone who has been there that if you are found guilty it is honestly not the end of the world. Just the end of that chapter in your life...a fitting culmination to the crap your ex put you through and the start of a whole new positive one.

If they sound recorded the converstation with you then surely you will have proof that they were just being difficult? Or where he told you, you didnt have to take it....if he did say that at all.

Being drunk is not a get out clause for declining a breath test

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me for repeating anything.
Yes it's illegal to be drunken in charge of a vehicle - my dad used to put the keys underneath the car as so not to be 'in charge' of his car.
If he really didn't inform you that it would be an offence to not take the breathalyser and you didn't know then you didn't have a mens rea and you could attempt to fight it, but considering the fact that they have dropped other charges I'd be careful as this will go against you, as will being drunk. Judges do not look favourably upon intoxication as an excuse.

'A person commits an offence if they fail to provide a specimen of breath, blood or urine without reasonable excuse after (having driven) or attempted to drive.
Road Traffic Act 1988 s7 (6). The maximum penalty for refusing to provide a specimen for analysis is a fine of up to £5000 and/or up to 6months imprisonment. There is a mandatory driving ban of at least 12 months, although if the courts believe you failed to provide a specimen because you were trying to avoid a ban for drink driving, this could be longer.'

You should either accept it or get a very good legal representative, OP.

I was thinking about this sort of situation the other day after watching the programme 5 Go Motorhoming. Never thought about it much as I don't drink, but does that mean a person can't drink if they're in a motorhome? Or that one person always has to stay sober?

Madwoman (talk about nomative determinism)

Sounds to the outsider that they are clutching at straws but they are going to go for it anyway as nothing else would stick.

No, the op was charged with failure to provide, because ... she failed to provide a specimen. It was the only charge to 'stick' as you put it, as she refused to give a sample, so couldn't charge with drunk in charge, as the op dennied them the chance to confirm she was drunk.

accept that things aren't what they used to be (lost count of the number of times I kipped in the car with the heater on and the doors locked)

You were merely lucky to have got away with it. It would be like me being charged with burglary. 'Things have changed, I've lost count of the number of times I've smashed a window and made off with a TV and laptop'

'Sounds to the outsider that they are clutching at straws but they are going to go for it anyway as nothing else would stick. '

No, it actually looks like the police were doing their job of getting someone who was very drunk with a vehicle off the streets and that person was trying to wheedle out of it by refusing to be breathalysed because she was confused at being breathalysed (she was highly drunk at 3am, duh) after being found with her keys in her car whose alarm kept going off to the point that someone called the police. At any rate, it's not up to the outsider to decide, it's up to the magistrate and the OP either needs to listen to her solicitor's counsel or hire alternate counsel and take her chances with that before the law. The past is neither here nor there, people drive over the limit, even the next day, often the next day, and kill other people. So of course, the law punishes people who commit offences whilst drunk in possession of a car by taking away their licenses and fines.

They're heard your story a hundred times, OP, 'Oh, I didn't know refusing to be breathalysed is a crime! I wasn't going to drive anywhere!' It probably won't wash with them.

Best you can do now is probably try to determine what the full impact a ban and fines will have on you.

And being a women isnt a get out of jail card ether (though sadly in most cases if a single mother kills someone with drink driving they are most likely NOT going to to jail because in effect would be punishing the children, were as a man killed someone when drink driving he would be going to jail)

You commited the crime you should accept your just punishments, even if you do lose your job you have no one else to blame but yourself.

People hear would not be so supporting or understanding if you were a bloke, you would be told tough deal with the conquences of your actions.

We cannot have a equal society if we contine to say being a women alone is a mitigating circumstance when comminting crimes.

OP were you in the drivers seat too by any chance?

It depends on the job Brittbugs. Some jobs (NHS, teaching etc) are subject to enhanced checks

My job requires an enhanced check and when I worked in a Nursery, one of my team had a speeding offence and most her licence, but it didn't affect her job as the Manager said her role didn't involve driving, so it didn't matter.

My DH has a driving job and one of his colleagues was also done for doing 110 on the motorway but didn't lose his licence as his job was based on driving, family relied on him and he had never been caught speeding before.

I don't know if it's luck when it comes to driving offences, nothing seems consistent!

'OP were you in the drivers seat too by any chance?'

No, she was in the passenger's seat.

OP - I've been banned twice and it felt like the end of the world both times. But it really, really isn't.

Just a thought - were any of the officers wearing a bodycam? If so the footage should be available. When similar happened to me the footage "got deleted" which meant the charge was dropped.

Yy to "misogynistic bullies". The police were just awful to me that night.

Cheers.

I have seen many people prosecuted for being drunk in charge and Every. Single. One tells the magistrates they had no intention of driving. It's the standard excuse. So it would hold no water with them. You are lucky is is not the charge.

Go to court, plead guilty to the breathalyser offence (because you committed it, and there's a very low chance of a NG verdict at trial), then during mitigation tell the magistrates that you are a single parent and will lose your job should you get a ban. Don't make excuses, just be contrite and complaint. Those kind of people are the ones who are given sympathy by the magistrates, not those who say 'but, but, but...'

'My DH has a driving job and one of his colleagues was also done for doing 110 on the motorway but didn't lose his licence as his job was based on driving, family relied on him and he had never been caught speeding before.

I don't know if it's luck when it comes to driving offences, nothing seems consistent!'

No, it's because it was speeding and not any type of drink driving or being over the limit. A lot of the law around alcohol and/or drug intoxication whilst in possession of a vehicle has minimum automatic punishments. It's designed to deter people from being in charge of a vehicle or driving when they are intoxicated, Scotland went further by lowering the limits because a startling number of accidents occur the day after when the person thinks they've slept it off but they haven't.

@Pandoraphile yeah it's the nasty menz fault for you being banned...twice.

Some of the responses on here are laughable - what a pack of self righteous arseholes

She was caught bang to rights and has admitted, with the facts she has given on here, that she was drunk in charge of a vehicle. What bit of that do you not get? Do you not think the overwhelming majority of people who get done for a drink-drive related offense have some sob story or string of excuses they tell to their family, friends and colleagues? She's guilty and if I'm an asshole for having zero sympathy for her or any other criminal trying to whinge their way around the truth I can live with that. Can you live with being an apologist for an offense that kills or seriously injures roughly 3000 innocent victims every year?

Banned twice and the police are the ones who are the bullies. Okay.

they have audio of me stating that I was confused by the process and couldn't understand why I was being asked to breathalyser when I hadn't been driving and had no intention whatsoever of driving (it's in the paperwork given to my solicitor)

Unfortunately I don't think that will be to your advantage if you were drunk. The audio will just show the police trying to explain and you arguing/interrupting/slurring/not listening etc. depending on how drunk you were.

Have you been bailed to court or to the police station? What does your paperwork say?

Look you were belligerently drunk in a parked car with keys in your hands. You refused to give a sample. You deserve to be prosecuted. Take some responsibility for yourself.

Man - You've misunderstood my post quite spectacularly. Well done.

They were awful in the sense that I was thrown against the car, accused of trying to get my hands out of the cuffs when actually they fell off because my wrists are tiny. They then put them on far too tightly and wouldn't listen when I said how painful it was. I subsequently lost all feeling in my right thumb for three months. So yeah, objectively, they were awful.